Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[blaisee]

Interestingly, letting overpaid players compared to performance used to be what the hawks where known for and what helped them build their premierships

Letting Williams, Anderson, Lisle, Hartung, Savage, Suckling where allowed to leave in order to pay players like Roughead, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis ect

Now Hawthorn is doing the opposite being a net importer of B grade talent like, Vickery, Wingard, Scully Impi, Henderson ect

 

[Elite Master]

Interestingly, letting overpaid players compared to performance used to be what the hawks where known for and what helped them build their premierships

Letting Williams, Anderson, Lisle, Hartung, Savage, Suckling where allowed to leave in order to pay players like Roughead, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis ect

Now Hawthorn is doing the opposite being a net importer of B grade talent like, Vickery, Wingard, Scully Impi, Henderson ect

Hawthorn think extracting the most out of Wingard will make him A grade but I can't see that happening consistently. Impi has more of a chance of becoming that for the position he plays.

 

[TylerDurden]

Hawthorn think extracting the most out of Wingard will make him A grade but I can't see that happening consistently. Impi has more of a chance of becoming that for the position he plays.

Chad has already proven he's a top liner and is only 26. He's already won 2 AAs.

Sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[Sixpence]

Interestingly, letting overpaid players compared to performance used to be what the hawks where known for and what helped them build their premierships

If they performed to a level that won us 3 Premierships in a row, how were they overpaid?

This is blaisee logic at its finest!

 

[Scotland]

Don't know what to make of Wingard. In his first few years he was one of my favourite players to watch. The last 4 (3 Port, 1 Haw) he's been OK but not the same player let alone going on with it from the level he reached at 21/22. I reckon he could be a star again, but he won't be a player who will make an average Hawthorn side into a good one. He is a player that will add X-factor to an already good side.

 

[blaisee]

If they performed to a level that won us 3 Premierships in a row, how were they overpaid?

This is blaisee logic at its finest!

They were let go because someone else could do they job at a cheaper rate, or a better job at the same rate

Either way, they were weren't A graders, and they were moved on for someone younger or better or cheaper

They weren't missed that was for sure, as they were replaced

 

[Sixpence]

Don't know what to make of Wingard. In his first few years he was one of my favourite players to watch. The last 4 (3 Port, 1 Haw) he's been OK but not the same player let alone going on with it from the level he reached at 21/22. I reckon he could be a star again, but he won't be a player who will make an average Hawthorn side into a good one. He is a player that will add X-factor to an already good side.

No one single player turns an average side into a good one. Not Danger, not Buddy, not Martin etc, yet you expect Wingard to? He has made us a better team though, his last two months provided a spark in our midfield and elite delivery into our forward line. BOG against West Coast and Top 2 (amongst Hawthorn players) in every other game going back to the Freo game when he returned from injury.

 

[Scotland]

No one single player turns an average side into a good one. Not Danger, not Buddy, not Martin etc, yet you expect Wingard to? He has made us a better team though, his last two months provided a spark in our midfield and elite delivery into our forward line. BOG against West Coast and Top 2 (amongst Hawthorn players) in every other game going back to the Freo game when he returned from injury.

I don't expect him to do anything. He's been in teams that finished 9th, 10th, 5th (pre finals), 10th, 9th the last 5 years and been good but not great for most of that time. Prior to that he played finals two years in a row and Port were still very good in 2015 after a poor start and was excellent. Tom Mitchell will come back and do what he does whether you win 5 games or 15. Wingard isn't that dude. He's not a downhill skier who will only perform in 10 goal wins over Gold Coast, but he's a player who is better in good sides.

 

[parsons nose]

very true, but it gets better or worse, if you go for Hawthorn

Hawthorn seem to have heaps of salary cap room, very much like what North had/have.

As per the EBA 95% of that TPP needs to be spent. In 2019 that amount is $ 12.1 m of the TPP of $ 12.76 m,

The problem is, as clubs like the hawks and the roos, do not have great young players coming through, they need to spend this money on free agents. As the best free agents keep rejecting them, namely, Dustin Martin, Tom Lynch, Coniglio, Whitfield, Kelly, even Shiel, it means that the top dollars are spent on less than A grade footballers, and players past their best, or that have injury histories and hence more risk, players like Polec, Scully, Vickery, Wingard, Patton, Pittard, Hall ect.

It gets even worse, because the top clubs, let their fringe and overpaid to performance players go to these middle of the road clubs, in doing so they protect their own clubs and free up their TPP so they can retain their own elite top shelf talent, and in Richmond s case, even attract A greade free agents like Tom Lynch for less than market prices.

This is exactly what is being done with Patton, Scully, LLoyd, Miles, Ellis ect.

It is a self perpetuation of mediocrity that will only be stopped if you draft and retain you own talent, because no legit A grade free agent will ever go to a middle of the road club ubless you pay him maybe 50% above market wages, even then it is a long shot.

You’ve convinced me, I’m going with Richmond’s 37 year plan!

 

[hk89]

It is a self perpetuation of mediocrity that will only be stopped if you draft and retain you own talent

After Worpel stepped up , and Wingard got fit enough to contribute in the midfield our results from round 15 onwards against the top 8 were:
Eagles - lost by 6 after kicking 9.17 vs 11.11
Pies - won by 4
Cats - won by 24
Lions - lost by 27 after kicking 1.11 from set shots, and scoring 7.18 vs 13.9, winning clearances, inside 50s, and having more of the ball.
Giants - won by 56
Eagles - won by 38

If we'd kicked straight in our two recent losses against top 8 teams we'd have played finals, and gone in having won 6 of our last games 6 games against other top 8 sides instead of only 4 from 6. We'd also have 3 recent wins against the top 4, instead of just 2.

I look forward to adding the current reigning Brownlow winner to that mediocrity in 2020. Hawthorn don't need anymore A grade players to play finals next year. We just need our best player back. If we can replace some of our C graders with solid B graders during this trade period, and take a relatively fit list into the start of next season , we'll have another crack at top 4.

 

[matey]

The 2016 draft a good one for the Hawks producing 3 quality youngsters for the next 10 years. Worpel, Lewis and Scrimshaw. Elite picks of the draft .... pfft! I know it’s very hard for some that the future is looking bright for the mighty Hawks.

 

[hawkman]

The 2016 draft a good one for the Hawks producing 3 quality youngsters for the next 10 years. Worpel, Lewis and Scrimshaw. Elite picks of the draft .... pfft! I know it’s very hard for some that the future is looking bright for the mighty Hawks.

Worpel was 2017

 

[matey]

Worpel was 2017

Even better Worpel youngest out of the 3 then.

 

[WWSD]

I want the input from Jobe Watson and Jade. Where ya’ll disappear?

 

[TallyHawk]

I want the input from Jobe Watson and Jade. Where ya’ll disappear?

Jobe Watson is melting on the autopsy thread, geez that trade win they were gloating about has gone sour. Shiel couldn't hit the backside of a barn.


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[cryptor]

Can Essendon succeed while ignoring the elite talent in the elite end of the draft?

 

[ChappyUK]

Can Essendon succeed while ignoring the elite talent in the elite end of the draft?

McGrath was their best player.

 

[cryptor]

McGrath was their best player.

Exactly. What a worrying sign for the future.

 

[matey]

Essendon’s elite draft picks has delivered little they are still miles away from the 5th best team. McGrath, Heppell, Parish and acquiring Shiel last year ....... that would have to be one of the softest midfield groups I have ever seen assembled at the Bombers. In finals footy gets shown up especially. They won’t win a final for another 10 years playing bruise free footy like that. After bottoming out this year Hawks rebuild will have it back playing finals next year ..... Bombers out! They should trade their first draft pick for Wines or someone else that has a heart. Thank goodness cricket and Euro PGA golf was on last night.

 

[Wojcinski]

Essendon’s elite draft picks has delivered little they are still miles away from the 5th best team. McGrath, Heppell, Parish and acquiring Shiel last year ....... that would have to be one of the softest midfield groups I have ever seen assembled at the Bombers. In finals footy gets shown up especially. They won’t win a final for another 10 years playing bruise free footy like that. After bottoming out this year Hawks rebuild will have it back playing finals next year ..... Bombers out! They should trade their first draft pick for Wines or someone else that has a heart. Thank goodness cricket and Euro PGA golf was on last night.

Seriously? Bottoming out? Hawthorn had the oldest list in the league, they're a long way from bottoming out.

 

[cryptor]

Essendon’s elite draft picks has delivered little they are still miles away from the 5th best team. McGrath, Heppell, Parish and acquiring Shiel last year ....... that would have to be one of the softest midfield groups I have ever seen assembled at the Bombers. In finals footy gets shown up especially. They won’t win a final for another 10 years playing bruise free footy like that. After bottoming out this year Hawks rebuild will have it back playing finals next year ..... Bombers out! They should trade their first draft pick for Wines or someone else that has a heart. Thank goodness cricket and Euro PGA golf was on last night.

Unfortunately they’d need to find a different way to get Wines as they don’t have the necessary first rounder. They traded it along with their first rounder from last year to get Shiel. The AFL should probably slap them with a trade ban to save themselves from making such a costly mistake again.

 

[matey]

Seriously? Bottoming out? Hawthorn had the oldest list in the league, they're a long way from bottoming out.

Pretty sure that average will drop a fair bit in a couple weeks time and maybe you need to start watching other games. Last two months Hawks wins have been on the back of its younger players. And one of the best from Geelong Falcons you gotta be happy with that!

 

[Wojcinski]

Pretty sure that average will drop a fair bit in a couple weeks time and maybe you need to start watching others games. Last two months Hawks wins have been on the back of its younger players.

You don't think other clubs will have retirees. No doubt Worpel is good, but the Hawks haven't bottomed out yet. Which other younger players contributed over the last 2 months? Lewis played well vs Geelong, who else?

 

[matey]

You don't think other clubs will have retirees. No doubt Worpel is good, but the Hawks haven't bottomed out yet. Which other younger players contributed over the last 2 months? Lewis played well vs Geelong, who else?

Hawks have assembled a number of quality players in the last couple years that will take them up the ladder next year and that will be at the club for the next 5-7 years. And without access to the elite end of the draft! Future is bright. I would be more worried about the Cats with Kelly gone and Danger/Selwood/Ablett all close to the end of their careers.

 

[HairyO]

You don't think other clubs will have retirees. No doubt Worpel is good, but the Hawks haven't bottomed out yet. Which other younger players contributed over the last 2 months? Lewis played well vs Geelong, who else?

So we beat Geelong with only 2 good players? Doesnt bode well for you lot.