Dunstall vs Lockett vs Carey vs Ablett vs Lloyd vs Franklin vs J Brown - Who is the most Elite of them all?

[PowerfulPies2023]

Rank your best in order and who is your number 1? This is almost impossible. I think Id go


Ablett
Lockett
Dunstall
Carey
Franklin
Lloyd
J.B

G Ablett started out as a half forward didn't he?

To be honest, I reckon Dunstall was the best in finals. The most consistent. And that obviously says a hell of a lot about the great Hawks of his time. 145 goals in a single season, just 5 shy of the all time record.

If we're talking over a period of time, just for snags well then obviously Plugger gets the cake ( he did a lot in his playing days. Really cut back on it now )

If we're talking mercurial freak ability and majestic nature well then look no other than G Ablett.

Wayne Carey had that knack for turning a game on it's head and a pure game changer. He could single handedly drag his side over the line. As could the above. Carey did it in his own way.

Buddy is Buddy much like Carey in many respects and he played across several eras, when the game changed. Don't sleep on that 2008 season. He could be ahead of Carey.

Lloyd is right up there with the Lockett's and Dunstall's. A dead eyed dick and slick sharp shooter. A marksmen.

J.B Played predominantly as CHF but could also be up the list as well. It's hard to compare but he has to be in the discussion. Most of these blokes had the advantage of being purely a Full Forward.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Frankly, the last 3 aren't fit to lace the boots of the first 4.
And that is no slight on them as players, all gun footballers in their own right.

 

[RUNVS]

Different eras makes it tough. I think Brown for instance would have been a much better player had he player in the late 80's or early 90's.

 

[GastevsBeard]

Frankly, the last 3 aren't fit to lace the boots of the first 4.
And that is no slight on them as players, all gun footballers in their own right.

Buddy definitely in the convo of the top 4 - beyond doubt the premier forward of his generation

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Out of these players, I would rate them...

1 Ablett
2 Carey
3 Lockett
4 Franklin
5 Dunstall
6 Brown
7 Lloyd

 

[boncer34]

Watch Lloyd be criminally underrated.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Watch Lloyd be criminally underrated.

Quality player but not at the level of the likes of Ablett, Carey or Lockett.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Buddy definitely in the convo of the top 4 - beyond doubt the premier forward of his generation

Not really.

GAS - GPG: 4.16 SPG: 6.94 6+: 62 8+: 26 10+ 12
Lockett - GPG: 4.84 SPG: 6.96 6+: 102 8+: 47 10+: 21
Dunstall - GPG: 4.66 SPG: 7.05 6+: 90 8+: 42 10+: 16
Carey - GPG: 2.67 SPG: 4.35 6+: 20 8+: 5 10+: 2

Franklin - GPG: 3.01 SPG: 5.11 6+: 31 8+: 13 10+: 2

You could make a case he matches up alright to Carey, albeit Carey played CHF which no doubt impacted his goal tally and bag producing potential. He is a long way short of Lockett and Dunstall, and although he scored more goals than Ablett it was in more games, at a lower per game basis and with Ablett spending the first two thirds of his career either at HFF or on a wing.

So no. Buddy is not in the conversation for the top 4. Tenuously to Carey but the other 3 are comfortably better than Franklin.
TBF, conceding Carey is doing Duck's career a disservice too.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Out of these players, I would rate them...

1 Ablett
2 Carey
3 Lockett
4 Franklin
5 Dunstall
6 Brown
7 Lloyd

Surprised you didn't have Dunstall last your pretty anti Hawthorn. Your having a laugh though with Buddy ahead of him. Dunstall gets criminally underrated because he played in champion sides but they forget he kicked a ton in ordinary sides too in particular 96. Single handedly took us to the finals from absolutely nowhere than wrecked his knee. He's with Lockett and Ablett neck a neck if your being serious.

 

[The_Eagles]

Carey’s pressure releasing marks in the centre or backline or his knack for pulling down grabs from the long bomb into the forward line just stymied teams and would always take the wind out of opposition sails. It was palpable. He was the best marker ever imo and it’s basically the most important factor for stopping the scrap and setting up play/kicking goals.

He’s my numero uno

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Surprised you didn't have Dunstall last your pretty anti Hawthorn. Your having a laugh though with Buddy ahead of him. Dunstall gets criminally underrated because he played in champion sides but they forget he kicked a ton in ordinary sides too in particular 96. Single handedly took us to the finals from absolutely nowhere than wrecked his knee. He's with Lockett and Ablett neck a neck if your being serious.

I'm not anti-Hawks... just not part of the Hawks love in who think the Hawks currently have an awesome midfield.

You could easily swap Buddy & Dunstall around as I had them 4th & 5th. Think Dunstall got better service from a better team. Buddy more individually brilliant imo.

Ablett was a freak who was the most unstoppable player on his day. Carey & Lockett next on the same basis.

Yes, I'm being serious & given there is no Crow amongst this list, I can claim to be more unbiased than a Hawks supporter.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I'm not anti-Hawks... just not part of the Hawks love in who think the Hawks currently have an awesome midfield.

You could easily swap Buddy & Dunstall around as I had them 4th & 5th. Think Dunstall got better service from a better team. Buddy more individually brilliant imo.

Ablett was a freak who was the most unstoppable player on his day. Carey & Lockett next on the same basis.

Yes, I'm being serious & given there is no Crow amongst this list, I can claim to be more unbiased than a Hawks supporter.

Dunstall was equally as brilliant. Took alot of spectacular marks at full pace on the lead. Was an explosive beast and immensely strong. Most of the full backs of that era actually rated Dunstall the hardest matchup including SOS. Because he wasn't overly tall but those above attributes made him a Colossus to deal with.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Dunstall was equally as brilliant. Took alot of spectacular marks at full pace on the lead. Was an explosive beast and immensely strong. Most of the full backs of that era actually rated Dunstall the hardest matchup including SOS. Because he wasn't overly tall but those above attributes made him a Colossus to deal with.

Make your own ranking list then rather than arguing with mine.

Imo, more non-Hawks supporters will be closer to my ranking.

These are all gun player, but imo you are being biased if you are ranking Dunstall ahead of Ablett & Carey.

Dunstall doesn’t even rank himself ahead of them!

Damian Barrett Says Jason Dunstall Rates Himself The Third Best Player Ever

The Chief!

www.triplem.com.au

 

[PhatBoy]

Brown doesn’t belong in this company.

Great player, one of the most courageous and a sensational leader but sits in the Jack/Hawkins etc bracket.

In order I would go probably

Ablett
Carey
Lockett
Dunstall
Franklin
Lloyd

But it’s pretty interchangeable and using whatever criteria you want you could swap it around just about any way you see fit.
Put Lockett in a better side and he could easily be number 1.
Put Ablett at full forward his whole career and maybe he’s number 1 by so far it’s not funny, maybe put Carey in a slightly better side and he leads them to 4-5 flags not 2. Dunstall and Franklin you could argue were lucky to play in good sides but equally Dunstall continued to produce insane numbers after his side fell off the cliff, Franklin went to Sydney and was just as good in a totally new environment and he wasn’t even a ‘key’ forward, and he did what he did in an era when big numbers were non-existent.

It’s almost impossible to rank them

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Make your own ranking list then rather than arguing with mine.

Imo, more non-Hawks supporters will be closer to my ranking.

These are all gun player, but imo you are being biased if you are ranking Dunstall ahead of Ablett & Carey.

Dunstall doesn’t even rank himself ahead of them!

Damian Barrett Says Jason Dunstall Rates Himself The Third Best Player Ever

The Chief!

www.triplem.com.au

I don't think it matters how Dunstall rates himself.

Particularly when Carey and Lockett both rate Dunstall as the greatest they have ever seen:

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/carey-rates-dunstall-as-the-greatest/news-story/1bbe16a3adf14fe7e091db1ae117230f

(Not saying anything wrong with your rankings BTW - they were fine and is just one opinion, just like those of Lockett, Carey and Dunstall themselves).

 

[brmi]

Dunstall
Ablett
Lockett
Carey
Franklin
Lloyd
Brown

 

[King_Steele]

Dunstall #1 for me

 

[lordbob]

Not really.

GAS - GPG: 4.16 SPG: 6.94 6+: 62 8+: 26 10+ 12
Lockett - GPG: 4.84 SPG: 6.96 6+: 102 8+: 47 10+: 21
Dunstall - GPG: 4.66 SPG: 7.05 6+: 90 8+: 42 10+: 16
Carey - GPG: 2.67 SPG: 4.35 6+: 20 8+: 5 10+: 2

Franklin - GPG: 3.01 SPG: 5.11 6+: 31 8+: 13 10+: 2

You could make a case he matches up alright to Carey, albeit Carey played CHF which no doubt impacted his goal tally and bag producing potential. He is a long way short of Lockett and Dunstall, and although he scored more goals than Ablett it was in more games, at a lower per game basis and with Ablett spending the first two thirds of his career either at HFF or on a wing.

So no. Buddy is not in the conversation for the top 4. Tenuously to Carey but the other 3 are comfortably better than Franklin.
TBF, conceding Carey is doing Duck's career a disservice too.

Its odd that you make an excuse for Carey as he played CHF and for GAS because he spent the first part of his career at HFF or a wing. Yet you ignore that Buddy wasn't a stay at home FF either. In 2008 + 2012 + 2013 + 2015 GF teams he was named at CHF. During his time at the Hawks, he would push up the ground and then work hard back the other way. Roughead was usually named at FF when they played together. As such you could argue that Carey is the perfect comparison, with both playing CHF all be it in different ways. Watch his highlight reel and it is full of plays of him up the ground pinging goals from outside 50 or going on long runs bringing the ball inside 50.

Some more stats. The DPG highlight that GAS and Carey are better comparisons. Tackles PG showing the greater pressure impact Franklin applied.

GAS - DPG: 15.1 TPG: 0.6
Lockett - DPG: 10.2 TPG: 0.5
Dunstall - DPG: 11.9 TPG: 0.6
Carey - DPG: 16.5 TPG: 1.2
Franklin - DPG: 14.8 TPG: 2.5

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Its odd that you make an excuse for Carey as he played CHF and for GAS because he spent the first part of his career at HFF or a wing. Yet you ignore that Buddy wasn't a stay at home FF either. In 2008 + 2012 + 2013 + 2015 GF teams he was named at CHF. During his time at the Hawks, he would push up the ground and then work hard back the other way. Roughead was usually named at FF when they played together. As such you could argue that Carey is the perfect comparison, with both playing CHF all be it in different ways. Watch his highlight reel and it is full of plays of him up the ground pinging goals from outside 50 or going on long runs bringing the ball inside 50.

Some more stats. The DPG highlight that GAS and Carey are better comparisons. Tackles PG showing the greater pressure impact Franklin applied.

GAS - DPG: 15.1 TPG: 0.6
Lockett - DPG: 10.2 TPG: 0.5
Dunstall - DPG: 11.9 TPG: 0.6
Carey - DPG: 16.5 TPG: 1.2
Franklin - DPG: 14.8 TPG: 2.5

tackles per game. What irrelevant twaddle.

GAS/Dunstall/Carey/Lockett






The other 4.

End of discussion.

 

[AusTerran]

Modra

Daylight

The rest

 

[lordbob]

tackles per game. What irrelevant twaddle.

GAS/Dunstall/Carey/Lockett






The other 4.

End of discussion.

Also, if games played don't mean anything then just give the award to Peter Hudson.
Most goals in any season he played more than 2 games in (except his 1st- 57 goals and 3rd - 120 goals)

GPG 5.64 SPG 8.2 6+: 64 8+: 33 10+: 12

all in less than half as many games as the next least.

 

[RUNVS]

Thought this should be put here for some context.

Also should point out Buddy kicked more than 70 goals after this chart was made.

 

[Mr Meow]

View attachment 1883244

Thought this should be put here for some context.

Also should point out Buddy kicked more than 70 goals after this chart was made.

This would work better for goals per game as key forwards these days can last a lot longer. It doesn't factor that in.

 

[The Dougster]

Carey
Ablett
Lockett
Franklin
Dunstall
Lloyd
Brown

 

[RUNVS]

This would work better for goals per game as key forwards these days can last a lot longer. It doesn't factor that in.

Another way of looking at it is Buddy has kicked 26% more goals than his next nearest rival (Jack Reiwoldt). Admittedly Hawkins will pass Reiwoldt this year but even so, Lockett did not kick 26% more goals than his next nearest rival.