Jon Ralph, Tim Kelly and the Curious Case of the 'no source' AFL Reporter

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Shadow89

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10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
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Hi guys,

A little question for all of you here, and something that has bothered me for quite a while with reporters like Ralph - why can they write entire articles without sources?

The Herald Sun is one of the largest newspapers in Australia, and has a very large subscribed following. They print hundreds of articles a week on different topics, all with varying levels of accuracy. While I'm not deluded to the fact that Ralph isn't exactly 'A grade' reporting material, I still find it interesting that he sees fit to post an article with no factual substantiation to back up his claims about Tim Kelly.

I have re-read this article a few times, and many things jump out at me. I have listed these below -

1) He uses the word feels despite no actual conversation with Kelly or his manager taking place

2) He uses the word expected, in order to be non-committal in his piece

3) He directly states that:

"Kelly has no beef with Fremantle despite his partner Caitlin Miller “liking” a recent social media post about Ross Lyon’s sacking. But despite two years at Geelong he has not diverted from his position that he needs to be back with his family in Perth."

The above is stated, when there are several instances where Kelly has in fact diverted from his initial stance of needing to be back with his family. Most recently during his conversation with the media when Geelong were up against Fremantle.

4) The only quotes that he does post from Kelly, are quotes that state he hasn't made a decision yet. While we all know that's just media deflection, if the only substantiated piece of context is one that refutes your initial argument, why are you posting it at all? From the way it's structured, it appears he's put that last to give the article some merit. The problem here is, is that the reader has already had their opinion swayed by the aforementioned, and thus, won't be neutral when they read that statement.

******************

Taking all of the above into account, I do genuinely question why reporters are allowed to post things such as 'he feels' or 'he has', when he has no source to back that up. Doesn't then this come under misrepresentation, as you're stating that someone said something or feels something, but you're not actually providing any evidence to back that up? Doesn't that make him (and the Herald Sun) liable for a defamation suit?

He also has corrected his article since, stating that Kelly refutes this. He has not pulled the article though, and only includes this information towards the end. He again is using this as a way to create headlines and clicks for his newspaper, but doesn't actually change anything about his article.

Why is this allowed? On the eve of finals, with Collingwood up against them and his Tigers one of the big contenders, why is he allowed to unsettle the Geelong team with reports like this, without any substantiation? It's all a bit odd to me. Surely Tim and Caitlyn could sue the Herald Sun and Ralph, given that he uses them as references, but he never actually spoke to them or his manager?

Thoughts?
 

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The Herald Sun now actually pay their reporters by the click.

Fact.

If by some chance anyone still worries about anything they say, Don't.

Nah not worried per se about what he's saying, more how he's saying it. Specific wording about 'feeling' and words like 'has' are very committal, and offer no margin for error. He never once says 'my sources have told me this', he states that Kelly and Caitlyn directly feel or say this. I've seen a lot of trash articles and throwaway comments by AFL reporters, but this one really seems a step too far.
 
They never name their sources though and most reporters use phrasing like that.

It’s not like it’s a massive leap or anything.

It’s also not defaming anyone to suggest they want to leave Geelong...as hard as that is to believe.

See above. He never states 'my sources.' I full well know Kelly will be likely going to West Coast. Have all season. With that said, nothing new has been provided, and it's unsettling to say the least, to reveal it on the eve of finals. Especially when Kelly has been referenced, and then stated that 'it's false.'
 
Nah not worried per se about what he's saying, more how he's saying it. Specific wording about 'feeling' and words like 'has' are very committal, and offer no margin for error. He never once says 'my sources have told me this', he state that Kelly and Caitlyn directly feel or say this. I've seen a lot of trash articles and throwaway comments by AFL reporters, but this one really seems a step too far.

Once again........The Herald Sun actually pay their reporters by the click. They got your click. They write trash. You just don't like THIS trash.
 
Journalism has become so much more powerful with the boom of the internet and increasing connectivity speeds. But journalism is basically unregulated. Anyone with a following can write bullshit with almost no consequences, and these self-absorbed attention whores only care about being first. Getting an exclusive. Its childish really. Who can scream the most ridiculous headline the quickest is what pays for the wage.

Who could forget Hutchy taking a 17 hour flight to LA to stalk Ben Cousins at the airport and try to get an "exclusive". These journos are a disgrace to humanity. Politicians should be doing something to regulate these cheap twats.
 
See above. He never states 'my sources.' I full well know Kelly will be likely going to West Coast. Have all season. With that said, nothing new has been provided, and it's unsettling to say the least, to reveal it on the eve of finals. Especially when Kelly has been referenced, and then stated that 'it's false.'

Do you see ‘my sources’ or ‘sources say’ that often though mate?

Don’t get me wrong, all of them spin complete s**t, but that style of writing is pretty standard. He’ll have a source of some kind, whether it’s one to hang his hat on or not is the risk he (and all of them) take to be a ‘news breaker’.
 
They have sources at clubs and around the industry (player managers etc) who speak to them on the condition they don’t burn them. If they did, the sources wouldn’t give them anything further.

If it’s not true the parties involved can just say so. That’s what happened with the Fantasia trade a couple of months ago. Then the reporter looks like a dickhead.
 

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It’s not per click, it’s per referred subscription. Same as an affiliate advertising arrangement.

Having said that, while it’s not direct payment, clicks are pretty much their KPI. If the don’t get em, they’ll be gone.

For the journalist , the incentive is to get the click, then the sub might hopefully follow. They only get the extra pay if the sub is via THEIR article.

So the incentive is all in the click, then hope for the best that you get a few live ones.

It's semantics how it is framed, but essentially it is cash for clicks. And sport has always been a main driver for The Hun.
 
Do you see ‘my sources’ or ‘sources say’ that often though mate?

Don’t get me wrong, all of them spin complete s**t, but that style of writing is pretty standard. He’ll have a source of some kind, whether it’s one to hang his hat on or not is the risk he (and all of them) take to be a ‘news breaker’.

Most articles I see state 'industry sources state x' or 'it has been revealed/'mail states' etc. The issue here for me, is that the article directly states what Kelly is thinking and feeling, alongside Caitlyn. This is even after Kelly has come out and said it is categorically 'false.' Obviously it is most likely not, but this isn't just an offhand comment from a reporter after a game. This is an article that has to adhere to some journalistic and writing standards (if the Herald Sun has any), which this article displays none of.

To do it 3 days before finals though, is just really low and shows that he has no integrity whatsoever. Those are really the main things that bother me. Even with the Cogs conjecture, they never once said that 'he feels that x club is well run/premiership contender' etc. They just stated what they 'thought' he might do.

The defamation part, I find, is that they're potting Freo pretty hard, and saying that Kelly has no beef with them but still thinks West Coast is better run and a better destination. Despite the fact that he's never said this. What if, hypothetically, he did want to go to Freo, but this article changed the club's attitude towards him. What if Geelong, Fremantle and West Coast aren't happy with anything being said here, and it changes the situation for the Kelly's. What if reporting the contract on offer puts established West Coast players at odds with the club, due to a second year player being offered more than 90% of their club?

Also, this is the most important part, what if Geelong has a 'no media leaks' clause in his contractual agreement. Or his purported speaking to the media gets him a fine, that his young family can ill afford. What if it puts the players offside, because they think that Kelly has announced this at the worst possible time, and hasn't considered the rest of his teammates and the success of the club?

I say all this, because none of these ethical considerations are taken into account. I think that reporters like Ralph should have to consider some of the aforementioned, given the far-reaching effect it can have on the Kelly's, the 3 clubs mentioned and the comp as a whole. To not do so, shows that he doesn't have a shred of integrity whatsoever.
 
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Journalism has become so much more powerful with the boom of the internet and increasing connectivity speeds. But journalism is basically unregulated. Anyone with a following can write bulls**t with almost no consequences, and these self-absorbed attention whores only care about being first. Getting an exclusive. Its childish really. Who can scream the most ridiculous headline the quickest is what pays for the wage.

Who could forget Hutchy taking a 17 hour flight to LA to stalk Ben Cousins at the airport and try to get an "exclusive". These journos are a disgrace to humanity. Politicians should be doing something to regulate these cheap twats.



Don't know about you, but I trust politicians even less than journalists...So they're the last people I'd want to set such regulations.
 
Journalism has become so much more powerful with the boom of the internet and increasing connectivity speeds. But journalism is basically unregulated. Anyone with a following can write bulls**t with almost no consequences, and these self-absorbed attention whores only care about being first. Getting an exclusive. Its childish really. Who can scream the most ridiculous headline the quickest is what pays for the wage.

Who could forget Hutchy taking a 17 hour flight to LA to stalk Ben Cousins at the airport and try to get an "exclusive". These journos are a disgrace to humanity. Politicians should be doing something to regulate these cheap twats.

Journos (apart from a few) are indeed a disgrace to humanity.

(Modern contemporary) Politicians are a cancer that need to be removed. Boot all the bas$ards out and start again.

Apart from the banking establishment and the fossil fuel industry, there are no greater threats to our freedom, liberty, security and prosperity.
 
Ralph crapped on about the Kelly deal as if it was a done deal. He reports that Kelly has put a line through Freo which is infuriating if true. Only Freo can complete a successful deal unless the Eagles make a huge scarifice in order to obatin a top 10 pick. If Ralph thinks picks 17 and 23 will get the deal done he is living in dreamland..... Geelong want pick 5 or 6 and the Eagles had better go get it! Will Hill go to the Saints for pick 5 leaving Freo's pick 6 open to trade to the Eagles for 17 and 23 which the Eagles will give to Geelong? That's just a starting point, the Eagles will still have to come up with a player or another first round pick?
 
Ralph crapped on about the Kelly deal as if it was a done deal. He reports that Kelly has put a line through Freo which is infuriating if true. Only Freo can complete a successful deal unless the Eagles make a huge scarifice in order to obatin a top 10 pick. If Ralph thinks picks 17 and 23 will get the deal done he is living in dreamland..... Geelong want pick 5 or 6 and the Eagles had better go get it! Will Hill go to the Saints for pick 5 leaving Freo's pick 6 open to trade to the Eagles for 17 and 23 which the Eagles will give to Geelong? That's just a starting point, the Eagles will still have to come up with a player or another first round pick?
You might have to let your obsession of a top 6 pick go because the chances of it happening is remote.
 
Ralph just handed Scotty another 'home' excuse. That's the main take home from the article.
 
I wish people would stop calling Ralphy a Journalist.

A Jouralist uses research and fact checking, let alone some of their cranial matter and some integrity - none of these elements present in any of his work.

He gets paid by clicks so he's made his rent this month. Good for him :rolleyes:

GO Catters
 

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