Rumour GFC 2019 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists.

[catempire]

I'm not critical of the ratio of drafting/mature agers we've gone with in recent times. Of course there are hits and misses with either type. I probably would have preferred to have targeted a better ruck before now but maybe there wasn't one available?

I think though now need to reassess where we are. Selwood and Hawkins aren't getting any younger. Dangerfield is still in peak form but is going to look like the lone ranger when Kelly leaves at seasons end. In my opinion, topping up with mature players like Rohan, Dahlhaus, Tuohy, Henderson and Ablett was fine when we had a core of elite types in the zone. Now we don't. So I don't want to see us trading first or second round picks any more. None. They go exclusively on young talent. I'd even consider trying to trade to grab another one or two over the next 2-3 drafts.

That's not to mean we don't grab any mature players. I think a team of only young talent is problematic as well. You need mature heads and leaders. So given that, I hope to see us targeting the odd positional filler IF they are under 27/28. And IF they don't cost us more than a pick under 30.

It's about balance. I just want to see over the next few years that ratio tweaked a little in favour of young draft able talent. If we look at a gun 19-22 year old from GWS let's say, have no problem trading for that either.

I only differ in that I think drafting 5-6 and bringing in say Goldstein and Steven for a pick in the 30s is balanced. Despite their age.

 

[year of the cat]

I only differ in that I think drafting 5-6 and bringing in say Goldstein and Steven for a pick in the 30s is balanced. Despite their age.

It may be balanced but is it worth it? Are they realistically going to be there for our next flag tilt? I'm not so sure.

 

[Turbocat]

The post that started this chain was:

So two points:
1. The last time we “topped up” was 2015 with Smith, Henderson and Scooter
2. Doing what we’ve done for the past three years is not deluded. It’s sound list management.

CE .. can we agree if you do not just draft and add kids you are adding PnP type thru trade .. I say Krueger is basically a draft pick.

Then when we add PnP we add to our current side , hopefully needing little development. That to me is appropriate to be termed topping up. Bring in mature in system players who are inserted into our side to immediately correct issues that have been determined.

The concpet of blending in old med and young as we have done is to a certain degree common sense in this era ..just about every club does it ..but Id question their overall success .. nearly all the PnP player we have brought have added huge amounts to our side.. so has this top up worked? .. Danger yes no doubt ..has shown his value over and over . Ablett for what he cost ..a slight down grade etc has probably been a pass...but if the whole concept was for him to make a difference on the big stage ..on that ..its a fail.

The comment I made about Dahl and Rohan.. Im disappointed in both. Dahl was brought in to add pressure but for a small his goal kicking leaves me cold. Rohan needs no explanation ... I have rarely seen a player be so hot then go so cold.

So .. I took YOTC comment about topping as in rel to the PnP players we have been linked to Steven , Gst and Higgins... and my point was I think they will continue to go with this approach . While Danger is as good as he is.. they will not throw the list into reverse ..they will continue with this current approach ... even though so far , imo , ..its has proved to be a total non success gauged by finals performance. It has done very well at making our home and away record as good as anyones...

 

[catempire]

It may be balanced but is it worth it? Are they realistically going to be there for our next flag tilt? I'm not so sure.

Absolutely. Should be aiming to win the 2020 flag.

 

[year of the cat]

Absolutely. Should be aiming to win the 2020 flag.

We aim to win every game. Doesn’t mean that we know that we won’t.

 

[Turbocat]

I'm not critical of the ratio of drafting/mature agers we've gone with in recent times. Of course there are hits and misses with either type. I probably would have preferred to have targeted a better ruck before now but maybe there wasn't one available?

I think though now need to reassess where we are. Selwood and Hawkins aren't getting any younger. Dangerfield is still in peak form but is going to look like the lone ranger when Kelly leaves at seasons end. In my opinion, topping up with mature players like Rohan, Dahlhaus, Tuohy, Henderson and Ablett was fine when we had a core of elite types in the zone. Now we don't. So I don't want to see us trading first or second round picks any more. None. They go exclusively on young talent. I'd even consider trying to trade to grab another one or two over the next 2-3 drafts.

That's not to mean we don't grab any mature players. I think a team of only young talent is problematic as well. You need mature heads and leaders. So given that, I hope to see us targeting the odd positional filler IF they are under 27/28. And IF they don't cost us more than a pick under 30.

It's about balance. I just want to see over the next few years that ratio tweaked a little in favour of young draft able talent. If we look at a gun 19-22 year old from GWS let's say, have no problem trading for that either.

I think you would like less short term adds ..that if we dont draft then add that has got a lot more time to actually grove as a side... the cost is the problem.. Hopper at GWS how much. So if we got one step back and get the guys just missing are they good enough for us ..

Overall I cant see us going super hard at the draft ..like 99 or 01 etc ..till Dangers output is not as good as it is. They will try to add pnp players around him.

 

[catempire]

We aim to win every game. Doesn’t mean that we know that we won’t.

To put it another way: you don’t bring players like Goldstein and Steven in unless you are aiming for a flag.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Who we get in is largely irrelevant while we have the failed coaching set up

 

[year of the cat]

I think you would like less short term adds ..that if we dont draft then add that has got a lot more time to actually grove as a side... the cost is the problem.. Hopper at GWS how much. So if we got one step back and get the guys just missing are they good enough for us ..

Overall I cant see us going super hard at the draft ..like 99 or 01 etc ..till Dangers output is not as good as it is. They will try to add pnp players around him.

I’m not sure we’ll ever go hard at the draft like ‘99/‘01 again. Free agency has changed the way clubs view list management nowadays. Even the Hawks are doing what we’ve been doing hoping to steal a flag. They’ve even been more aggressive in trading high picks than we have.

I still maintain though that nearly all successful sides are formed through getting a crop of youngsters coming through together via the draft.

 

[Turbocat]

We need a new dictionary to be made with all the riddles and analogies Turbo talks in.
Sometimes scratch my head unsure of what's being said.

Status quo will remain. 1-2 mature players in and a raft of draftees.

Sorry that im a little too mushy peas and fruit salad for you Art .. I'll try to keep the Michelin's on the Bitumen and out the weeds for you...

 

[year of the cat]

To put it another way: you don’t bring players like Goldstein and Steven in unless you are aiming for a flag.

Yes, absolutely. I think now our priority should be to develop our current youngsters even if that means we may slip for a few years. Go backwards in order to go forwards. I’d be leaving Steven alone completely. Goldstein is a FA so can cop getting him as he effectively costs you the last pick in the draft.

 

[Turbocat]

I’m not sure we’ll ever go hard at the draft like ‘99/‘01 again. Free agency has changed the way clubs view list management nowadays. Even the Hawks are doing what we’ve been doing hoping to steal a flag. They’ve even been more aggressive in trading high picks than we have.

I still maintain though that nearly all successful sides are formed through getting a crop of youngsters coming through together via the draft.

If we look at Carlton or clubs like , one can see once you drop to a status low preference we may not have much choice... certainly IF we fall to a level of Haw. now..I don't think we will have their status to still pull players..

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yes, absolutely. I think now our priority should be to develop our current youngsters even if that means we may slip for a few years. Go backwards in order to go forwards. I’d be leaving Steven alone completely. Goldstein is a FA so can cop getting him as he effectively costs you the last pick in the draft.

Nope. Not our DNA, not what we do.
We are not a rebuild club, not a go backwards for years club.

I’m glad we’re not either. That’s a losers mentality

 

[coylez]

Would anyone be interested in Lewis Taylor (I believe he is out of contract at Brisbane). Has been stuck on Brisbane's emergency list for the majority of the season, grew up in the Geelong area, would cost us a third or fourth rounder...

 

[year of the cat]

Nope. Not our DNA, not what we do.
We are not a rebuild club, not a go backwards for years club.

I’m glad we’re not either. That’s a losers mentality

Ffs, read my post again with your glasses on this time. Im. I’m not talking wholesale rebuilding ala Carlton, Melbourne etc. Just a re-tweaking of how we bring players in.

 

[catempire]

Yes, absolutely. I think now our priority should be to develop our current youngsters even if that means we may slip for a few years. Go backwards in order to go forwards. I’d be leaving Steven alone completely. Goldstein is a FA so can cop getting him as he effectively costs you the last pick in the draft.

I guess I don’t really think a decision like Steven is that material to long term prospects. And I can’t really see what we could do that would cause a slide. I just see the current approach as a pretty good balance.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ffs, read my post again with your glasses on this time. Im. It talking wholesale rebuilding ala Carlton, Melbourne etc. Just a re-tweaking of how we bring players in.

I read.

“I think now our priority should be to develop our current youngsters even if that means we may slip for a few years. Go backwards in order to go forwards.”

Not in this clubs DNA. No no no.
The day the club comes out and says this is the plan is the day I lose interest in what they’re doing.

We should continue to strive each year to win as many games as possible, finish as high as possible, and strive for premiership success.

You don’t get to the top unless you don’t stop striving for the top. No quarter given, no change of strategy, no drop down... by choice.

We go again in 2020

 

[Two Planks]

Would anyone be interested in Lewis Taylor (I believe he is out of contract at Brisbane). Has been stuck on Brisbane's emergency list for the majority of the season, grew up in the Geelong area, would cost us a third or fourth rounder...

Would definitely give us much needed run, but disposal is very questionable like a lot in our side.

 

[Turbocat]

Yes, absolutely. I think now our priority should be to develop our current youngsters even if that means we may slip for a few years. Go backwards in order to go forwards. I’d be leaving Steven alone completely. Goldstein is a FA so can cop getting him as he effectively costs you the last pick in the draft.

The ruck position has been a hotch potch for a while ..its finally given them the red faces that may mean they have to get serious with it. An old FA and a young guy to develop.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

and seeing us being interested in Higg and Stev ... and not to mention he was "yoyo"ed a bit.. he may feel that his future is elsewhere..

And seeing Higgins just sighed at North and that Steven is long odds to even play footy at all next year I'd be fairly confident he plays 20+ at the cats

 

[catempire]

Hehe

 

[year of the cat]

I read.

“I think now our priority should be to develop our current youngsters even if that means we may slip for a few years. Go backwards in order to go forwards.”

Not in this clubs DNA. No no no.
The day the club comes out and says this is the plan is the day I lose interest in what they’re doing.

We should continue to strive each year to win as many games as possible, finish as high as possible, and strive for premiership success.

You don’t get to the top unless you don’t stop striving for the top. No quarter given, no change of strategy, no drop down... by choice.

We go again in 2020

That’s ok. We disagree on most things. This is just another.

 

[year of the cat]

Hehe

Funny but true.

 

[Baudolino]

It may be balanced but is it worth it? Are they realistically going to be there for our next flag tilt? I'm not so sure.

It's certainly impossible to say whether they will be here for our next flag tilt, but given that we finished top of the ladder in 2019 and were (no matter how catastrophically we failed in finals) one of the 4 or 5 genuine flag contenders this year, I don't think there's reasonable grounds to say that it would be *impossible* for us to remain in flag contention in 2020, and as such, I don't think we should be admitting defeat before the end has even come yet. Recruiting players to plug holes is the responsible thing to do if there's a possibility it helps with a flag pursuit. My view is that it would be negligent to not even try and make a go of it in 2020. Just look at West Coast in 2018. Everyone assumed that list was cooked with the retirements of Priddis and Mitchell going in to that season and most predicted them to finish outside the top eight.

 

[year of the cat]

It's certainly impossible to say whether they will be here for our next flag tilt, but given that we finished top of the ladder in 2019 and were (no matter how catastrophically we failed in finals) one of the 4 or 5 genuine flag contenders this year, I don't think there's reasonable grounds to say that it would be *impossible* for us to remain in flag contention in 2020, and as such, I don't think we should be admitting defeat before the end has even come yet. Recruiting players to plug holes is the responsible thing to do if there's a possibility it helps with a flag pursuit. My view is that it would be negligent to not even try and make a go of it in 2020. Just look at West Coast in 2018. Everyone assumed that list was cooked with the retirements of Priddis and Mitchell going in to that season and most predicted them to finish outside the top eight.

I understand that viewpoint. I just look at us next year with a banged up Selwood, Hawkins a year older again, Ablett and Taylor likely retired and Kelly almost certainly gone and ask whether we will be better in 2020 than 2019? I really doubt it. Improvement you’d hope will come from Clark, Narkle, Constable, Miers etc but I don’t think it will be enough to make us a flag contender. Kelly’s loss will be massive.