Opinion End of season opinion

[Aussie pie]

He said the “club” not the supporters. I would have agreed if he said supporters.
It’s a very mportant distinction.

Yep, fair enough.

 

[Moeydw]

ask any player, they will gladly trade a Brownlow for a premiership medal. the only reason teams play is to win flags. We are seriously lacking in this department and yet view making finals as an achievement. Alistair Clarkson is a perfect example of why hawks won so many and have been so successful. Him and Kennett changed their club for the better, they don’t accept making finals as an achievement. We need wholesale changes like they made, because when all’s said and done, coming last or second means nothing. We achieved the same as Melb this year, 0. only difference is they get an easier draw and better picks...

I mean it in the sense of say a midfielder who doesnt win the brownlow is equivalent to a Rupert Wills just because they didnt come first.
I agree with your sentiment to a degree but when you only have one indicator of achievement you're more likely than not to fail.

 

[jonbe54]

My first and last contribution to this discussion.

Some of you need to get out and get a life.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Unfortunately this club has been accepting “almost winning” for some time now.

The club has never accepted almost winning

 

[jimmy35]

Club being lambasted for making finals now, Lordy me.

 

[Go Woods]

I wonder why a club like Richmond has five or six classy, quick indigenous players, including Pickett, and we never seem willing to pursue or recruit them. Krakouer was a good pick up even though he was getting on in age, but he was never a quick or explosive player. Hawthorn and Richmond have a history of getting these type of blokes. We seem to have a preference for solid, steady and vanilla. Mayne, Treloar, Adams, Brown, Thomas, Hoskin Elliott, Wells, Sier, Phillips, Greenwood, are all good players but none of them have explosive pace or any X factor. We seem to play it safe and go for solid citizens.

Been saying this since Leon retired, when will we learn? Certainly looks like the club intentionally has gone down the path of avoiding drafting these types of players for whatever reason, with the exception in Kayle Kirby and we know how that unfortunately turned out for the young fella.

 

[whiskeytown]

Injuries.

Yes there are some gaps in the list but look at Geelong's injury list for most of the year. It allowed them to finish top. Then look at the Tigers once their injuries list decreased. At Collingwood we always seem to have 15 players on the injury list.

We particularly keep Adams, Stephenson, Elliot, DecGoey and Moore playing through out this season and the team gets on a roll and builds momentum and belief and theres no 3qtr fadeout against the Giants

 

[maace]

I wonder why a club like Richmond has five or six classy, quick indigenous players, including Pickett, and we never seem willing to pursue or recruit them. Krakouer was a good pick up even though he was getting on in age, but he was never a quick or explosive player. Hawthorn and Richmond have a history of getting these type of blokes. We seem to have a preference for solid, steady and vanilla. Mayne, Treloar, Adams, Brown, Thomas, Hoskin Elliott, Wells, Sier, Phillips, Greenwood, are all good players but none of them have explosive pace or any X factor. We seem to play it safe and go for solid citizens.

This.

Long for the days we had Davis and Krak playing in '11 .. Krak was a reliable shot on goal and a great crumbing fwd in his day and Leon neon need I say more...

With Krak in mind, Pickett was a masterstroke for the Tiges yesterday.. we seem to be more conservative when it comes to potentially bringing in reformed players since Bucks has taken over the reigns (still hasn't stopped off field issues though).

Hopefully we bring in more indigenous talent in the coming year.. Varcoe has been serviceable to our club and wouldn't be surprised if he gets 1 more year.. Wells and Kirby didn't work out the way we would've liked.. Tony Armstrong as well.

We need more creative players on our list.. I agree with your sentiment - we are too vanilla at the moment.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Been saying this since Leon retired, when will we learn? Certainly looks like the club intentionally has gone down the path of avoiding drafting these types of players for whatever reason, with the exception in Kayle Kirby and we know how that unfortunately turned out for the young fella.

Yes I think we have a Policy Document on it.
I read it on line once, if I recall correctly, its Policy No.43 entitled "Do Not Recruit Indigenous Players"
Pretty sure it was signed by Bucks and Hine

I'll see if I can track it down and post a copy

 

[slugger01]

Yes I think we have a Policy Document on it.
I read it on line once, if I recall correctly, its Policy No.43 entitled "Do Not Recruit Indigenous Players"
Pretty sure it was signed by Bucks and Hine

I'll see if I can track it down and post a copy

Didn't Matt Rendell formulate the policy?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Didn't Matt Rendell formulate the policy?

May well have had a hand in it

 

[domus]

Yes I think we have a Policy Document on it.
I read it on line once, if I recall correctly, its Policy No.43 entitled "Do Not Recruit Indigenous Players"
Pretty sure it was signed by Bucks and Hine

I'll see if I can track it down and post a copy

No need to get catty about it. No-one is suggesting it is a formal policy. It's an observation based on the evidence we can see when comparing our recruiting to the way Richmond and Hawthorn go about it.

 

[sr36]

For mine it all comes down to how we end the season - do we give our all and come up just short (2002, 2007, 2018) or do we go out on the back of a poor performance (2003, 2011, 2019). The first I can accept with a mixture of pride and disappointment, the second just leaves me annoyed.

2003 was awful, but 2011 and 2019 were more about our expectations of the team rather than us failing due to a particularly poor performance on the day. That GWS loss was pretty much our season in a nutshell. An hour of drab football, 20 minutes of swarming.

 

[sr36]

I wonder why a club like Richmond has five or six classy, quick indigenous players, including Pickett, and we never seem willing to pursue or recruit them. Krakouer was a good pick up even though he was getting on in age, but he was never a quick or explosive player. Hawthorn and Richmond have a history of getting these type of blokes. We seem to have a preference for solid, steady and vanilla. Mayne, Treloar, Adams, Brown, Thomas, Hoskin Elliott, Wells, Sier, Phillips, Greenwood, are all good players but none of them have explosive pace or any X factor. We seem to play it safe and go for solid citizens.

There is a major obsession with race on this board. How do Degoey, Elliott, Stephenson, and Hoskin Elliott not fit the classy, quick, x factor description?

 

[domus]

There is a major obsession with race on this board. How do Degoey, Elliott, Stephenson, and Hoskin Elliott not fit the classy, quick, x factor description?

They are all gun players but they do not sit in the category I am talking about. We have lacked a super quick, electric small forward who creates mayhem with their pace and skills. Eddie Betts, Cyril Rioli, Jye Bolton, Willie Rioli, Stack, Charlie Cameron.....Our boys are more lead up and mark types rather than "streaming past a pack and crumbing the pill" players. For all the skill and pace those boys you mentioned have, I don't think they apply the manic tackling pressure Cyril Rioli was renowned for. I don't know why, given the pace they have.

As for being an obsession with race, surely you are aware of the way Bruce Mcavaney and many other commentators drool over the skill of players like Cyril Rioli and openly talk about the unique magical talent so many indigenous players possess? Is this a race obsession or simply an honest acknowledgment of the skills the indigenous players bring to our game? The NBA certainly seems fixated on a particular race in their game. I wonder why that is?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I just don’t get why we have so many injuries year after year? Is it our fitness staff. Richmond have had 3 years without major injuries & quick returns when they did have some earlier in the year. Is it just bad luck or is it something else. All I want is that we have the best available, it’s not as if they can’t afford it.

combination of bad luck, piss poor fitness staff (this is well known in Melb), keeping list cloggers like Reid and drafting injury prone past it players like wells and beams.

Injuries, team selection in the finals (Noble and Brown), mids unable to win clearances and the lack of a key forward were our major problems this year and only the second of these seems fixable next year.

 

[greening22]

The club has never accepted almost winning

I totally agree. Whether you liked him or loathed him, the infamous Carlton president, George Harris once stated after Carlton had won the 1968, 1970, 1972 & 1979 Premierships, respectively:

"If you come 2nd then you might as well come last!"

I like that attitude of not accepting but being totally contemptuous of 2nd best!

That is what I think & since 2010 we have achieved nothing as a football club. Premiership cups are all that matters. The rest is all white noise that in 5, 10, 20 or 30 years nobody remembers. The problem is that Collingwood accepts mediocrity far too easily & everybody is just too comfortable & we historically have been happy to make far too many excuses. We need - the club that is - needs a total rocket to shake the place up as 2010 will soon be a decade away. So you you are right. We may be a well recognised & very popular club but we are not great. If we were great we should have won at least 1 or 2 flags at the very least since 2010. I look forward to the forthcoming critiques. Bye.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ok so I’ve been hanging on to these thoughts for a while and while some may disagree and want to say I’m not a true supporter may I suggest you don’t say that and just take it as an opinion you don’t agree with.

So the pies, 2 flags since 1958. Considering the amount of GF’s we’ve been in this is pathetic. Let’s put it into context the dogs and saints have won 1 in that time. They are hardly top teams.

Supposedly we are a great club with the best supporters etc I’m sorry but why we haven’t demanded change and better results from our club is beyond me. Some people are too happy with “the boys tried hard” and “you’re not a true supporter if you question your club.” I say you’re not a true supporter if you don’t question your club and expect success. We should be near 20 flags but we’re not.

Change is needed now, first the recruiting staff. If anyone actually thinks Derek Hine has done a good job then they are joking. One or two good plucks but the lack of key position players recently and fast players is a joke.

Second, the fitness staff, need I say more.

Lastly Eddie, time has come for a change. Eddie is all about empire building rather than club success. It’s all about him, he might think he’s doing best for the club but it’s for the Collingwood brand not the football club.

So, simple thoughts not in depth but a few things that need to change. I’m tired of the jokes and bs about this club, I’m a passionate supporter and have been my whole life. If people are happy with mediocrity then follow the saints. Let’s stop the “good job boys” and demand change from the club.

Like I said these are just my opinions, fair enough if you don’t agree but no abuse please.

While I agree that some supporters are content with almost I am certain the club is not. I'm more than certain we keep wasting opportunities we make for ourselves.

Sure if we making the changes you state then yeah that'll make the difference, in saying that we've proven we've been good enough to win the whole comp - so I don't believe your ideas are absolutely essential.

I'd rather not make too many changes and take the opportunities that we make for ourselves.

 

[stormskye]

Club being lambasted for making finals now, Lordy me.

No club should celebrate or be happy with making finals. if you don’t win the flag, you may as well finish last and get some draft picks.

The club needs to be ruthless, if that means taking two steps back to go forward then so be it, there’s 0 point persisting with a list that ain’t quite good enough for the sake of making finals. Sorry but that’s just the truth.

Hawthorn delisted Mitchell, hodge and Lewis, they made hard calls cause they knew they couldn’t win the big stage again.

we need the same ruthlessness. you either need to be elite, or just finish bottom and reload. I’m sure geel supporters would feel the same, having made finals with no success. They haven’t been ruthless, they bought in Ablett which to me screams wells, beams like. mistakes by both clubs.

We are close, and yet we are 10% off the best team rich. we need to make up that ground somehow, if that means going backwards first, so be it. Our backline and midfield are premiership level, our forward line isn’t.

 

[BEEG]

Biggest change of all needs to be the Holden Centre turf.

 

[jimmy35]

No club should celebrate or be happy with making finals. if you don’t win the flag, you may as well finish last and get some draft picks.

The club needs to be ruthless, if that means taking two steps back to go forward then so be it, there’s 0 point persisting with a list that ain’t quite good enough for the sake of making finals. Sorry but that’s just the truth.

Hawthorn delisted Mitchell, hodge and Lewis, they made hard calls cause they knew they couldn’t win the big stage again.

we need the same ruthlessness. you either need to be elite, or just finish bottom and reload. I’m sure geel supporters would feel the same, having made finals with no success. They haven’t been ruthless, they bought in Ablett which to me screams wells, beams like. mistakes by both clubs.

We are close, and yet we are 10% off the best team rich. we need to make up that ground somehow, if that means going backwards first, so be it. Our backline and midfield are premiership level, our forward line isn’t.

See that’s a huge pile of shit. You have to keep turning your list looking for the right mix, developing the talent and rolling up every year to put yourself in with a chance to win a flag.
Hawthorn delisting those players hasn’t won them a flag yet, recruiting them did.
Flags are so hard to win, you need so many things to go right, the right game plan to win, and some good old fashioned luck. We’ve had some of the first, some of the second imo and **** all of the third. This list hasn’t peaked as yet and and has a good window in the next 3 or so years before Pendles, Sidey etc are done.
Wells and Beams at their best would’ve been huge in last years GF, Darcy Moore plays and we probably win. I wouldn’t have recruited Stewy Dew years ago but **** me if he didn’t win the Hawks a flag.
Keep grinding, keep turning up and looking for pieces to the puzzle.
It doesn’t come down to sheer numbers on a board, it never has, if it was Gold Coast and GWS would be dominating flags. The Eagles should’ve been a walk up start again this year, Tigers would have 3 in a row now. Geelong hangs on to beat the Tigers last week and they’re premiers now.
It’s a battle of inches and all you can do is keep working hard and turning up and we do that.

It’s how the game is.

 

[Black_White]

The club has never accepted almost winning

?
I can guarantee you that Ed and cohorts will claim making a Prelim as a successful year.
But the cabinet awaits sweet sixteen, yet again.

 

[stormskye]

See that’s a huge pile of s**t. You have to keep turning your list looking for the right mix, developing the talent and rolling up every year to put yourself in with a chance to win a flag.
Hawthorn delisting those players hasn’t won them a flag yet, recruiting them did.
Flags are so hard to win, you need so many things to go right, the right game plan to win, and some good old fashioned luck. We’ve had some of the first, some of the second imo and fu** all of the third. This list hasn’t peaked as yet and and has a good window in the next 3 or so years before Pendles, Sidey etc are done.
Wells and Beams at their best would’ve been huge in last years GF, Darcy Moore plays and we probably win. I wouldn’t have recruited Stewy Dew years ago but fu** me if he didn’t win the Hawks a flag.
Keep grinding, keep turning up and looking for pieces to the puzzle.
It doesn’t come down to sheer numbers on a board, it never has, if it was Gold Coast and GWS would be dominating flags. The Eagles should’ve been a walk up start again this year, Tigers would have 3 in a row now. Geelong hangs on to beat the Tigers last week and they’re premiers now.
It’s a battle of inches and all you can do is keep working hard and turning up and we do that.

It’s how the game is.

Yes, and we are always inches off. That’s the problem. we are never “the best team” bar 2010 I’ve never seen us as the best team during the year. we werent last year, we werent this year, so we finished without flags. Being close is irrelevant, the best teams win.

without a key forward we aren’t winning a flag. Blind Freddy can see this as our issue. I’m just hopeful Moore and degeoy can combat their injury issues, Grundy resigns and we can get a superstar key forward end of next year after Richmond win their 3rd flag in 4 years. they are the benchmark, they are hawthorn. We aren’t good enough, yet.

2021 with a key forward we can win. 2020 I just don’t see how we make up ground. Richmond will add Rance to their list, I’m afraid they will only get better.

 

[NonPhixion]

Unfortunately this club has been accepting “almost winning” for some time now. Making finals means nothing if you don’t win the flag yet we look at making finals as an achievement.

we are close, but not good enough, which has been our story for years. 02,03, 11, 18, and not to mention all the prelims we haven’t been the best team, we’ve just been close...

I look at the team like we were in 09, we were close, but not good enough. Where were we weak? The ruck and grunt at stoppages. What did we do? We got jolly and ball and boom, we became the best team an won the flag!

what do we need? Aside from a better run with injuries, we desperately need a key forward most of all, this is non negotiable. We won’t and can’t win the flag without key forward. We are about 10% off rich, and our lack of being able to score close to or over 100 this year is telling.

If we get a key forward who kicks 40-50 goals a year, we improve by 2-3 goals a game at minimum, and make up that 10% we need.

Addressing our stoppage work is another big must in offseason, BUT if there’s no tall targets to kick to, we can’t reap the Benefits.

Cox and Reid are NOT premiership winning forwards, and check is a 3rd tall.

While I agree Jenkins isn’t amazing, if he’s willing to accept peanuts, I say grab him until Cameron is available end of next year. Jenkins still averaged 2 goals a game, and he’s 10000 times more useful than cox. Would help the side improve a little, but Cameron and or King end of next year are musts

I’d throw a lot at King to try and get him next year. The guy is a serious prospect and still very young. We don’t have the currency to acquire Cameron

 

[sr36]

They are all gun players but they do not sit in the category I am talking about. We have lacked a super quick, electric small forward who creates mayhem with their pace and skills. Eddie Betts, Cyril Rioli, Jye Bolton, Willie Rioli, Stack, Charlie Cameron.....Our boys are more lead up and mark types rather than "streaming past a pack and crumbing the pill" players. For all the skill and pace those boys you mentioned have, I don't think they apply the manic tackling pressure Cyril Rioli was renowned for. I don't know why, given the pace they have.

As for being an obsession with race, surely you are aware of the way Bruce Mcavaney and many other commentators drool over the skill of players like Cyril Rioli and openly talk about the unique magical talent so many indigenous players possess? Is this a race obsession or simply an honest acknowledgment of the skills the indigenous players bring to our game? The NBA certainly seems fixated on a particular race in their game. I wonder why that is?

I also think Bruce is obsessed with race. He seems to view and talk about indigenous players quite differently. I'm not saying that there aren't traits that are more predominant in different racial groups - spacial awareness seems to be off the charts in a lot of indigenous footballers. I'm just suggesting that indigenous players are often viewed and judged differently, sometimes positively, positively and negatively

In terms of our group of small forwards who play the type of role youre talking about- Thomas, Brown and Varcoe, theyre not the strongest group around. But neither are Castagna, Rioli and Bolton. I don't think the one of them I'd choose first has indigenous background, unless we're talking about indigenous to the Mediterranean region .