Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Blue and Silver]

Draft Board is first stage I would think.

Then rankings, needs evaluations.

Then the tricky stuff, where other teams rank them, and how you can use that to get what you want.

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[SurreyBlue]

Polson?

Yep. Not a forward but is a midfielder. Must let the kid run.

 

[therubbernub]

Yep. Not a forward but is a midfielder. Must let the kid run.

he has his work cut out to force his way back in now. Who does he displace from our midfield?

 

[SurreyBlue]

he has his work cut out to force his way back in now. Who does he displace from our midfield?

The ball is in his court. Never the less, is be part of our 2020 plans and be part of of our rotation plans. If he’s form justifies AFL selection, he gets games, else he plays midfield VFL to earn the right.

 

[Doro]

Like most teams we played a regular back 7 with the 7th defender rotating off the bench. One week it would be SPS or Newman or Daisy or Simmo or whoever starting on the pine. Daisy was a regular member of that combination. Next year will be no different. We'll have a regular 7 defenders. IMHO, it's Jones, Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Docherty, Newman and the 7th will come from Stocker, SPS, Willo or Simmo.

That 6 lacks run and carry. Opposition planning would be focusing heavily on exploiting that. I'd prefer some more pace in the mix rather than three intercept marking threats in Weitering, Marchbank and Doc. The forward lines with a mix of quick small/med quality with decent supply will cause us continual trouble. I'd like to see Martin get some time back if the deal goes through.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

I feel like what should make Harry, Charlie and McLovin so dangerous is they should be a constantly moving triangle of targets. Someone who understands football and forwards lines better than me (ideally David Teague) can iron out the details, but every time any Carlton player gets the ball they should have one of these three presenting towards them and another a long bail out bomb away. And likely the other making position for the next kick.

Get some dangerous smalls and it can be a fantastic setup.

Year modern footy is far too fluid to allocate a single position to player. There will lots of switching and adjusting within games.

But while we have talent in the forward line, Charlie is the matchwinner. He needs to be near the goals most often.

 

[blue_trinity]

I guess it's hard for a guy like SOS to view as many games as others, but the final say would rest with the head of any list management team

A guy like Sheedy played an active role in recruiting, watching countless hours of footage

Others such as Clarko instructs his team to just share the attributes of a player without a name attached

Some have more of an active role than others, ultimately responsibility rests with a guy like SOS, if the team selects wisely, they all keep their job, if there are busts, or substandard selections, SOS's head is on the guillotine

Maybe, maybe not.
The point still stands though, sos would not be across each and every draftee and therefore couldn’t possibly rank them. That’s Brodie’s job.

 

[DangerousD]

...and the Richmond donkey recruiters need to get better at the top end of the draft. By and large it’s relatively equal, whereby both recruiting groups have room to improve in different areas.

Really? The top picks they have picked guys like Cotchin, Martin, Rioli, Riewolt, Rance, Vlastuin, Higgins, Prestia (trade)

 

[Arr0w]

Maybe, maybe not.
The point still stands though, sos would not be across each and every draftee and therefore couldn’t possibly rank them. That’s Brodie’s job.

Tell me how many more games you think Brodie gets to, compared to SOS?

 

[DangerousD]

We go on about Richmonds success in later parts of the draft, and fair enough Stack and Pickett have been successes. As impressive as Pickett was yesterday in his maiden game, let’s not forget that Gibbo, who was also selected later than late, played 20 games this season. Some perspective please, Ninethomd aren’t the be all end all.

And what about the other 6-8 players who played who they got in the low rounds of the draft, the rookie draft and the pre-season draft? As long as we got Gibbo though, a guy that SOS had no interest in, until it was forced upon us.

 

[DangerousD]

Lynch was playing right up the ground in the first half of the GF. Which is the role I see charlie ideally playing- none of this goal square stuff

Swap the name Charlie wit Harry and I'm all in. It was really interesting when Teague took over that Charlie went deep forward and looked a lot more dangerous. They compared heat maps pre and post Teague for Charlie and it was a big contrast. One i hope continues.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Charlie has looked good up the ground before (pre-2019).

Frankly I don't care the exact structure provided it gives opposition defender's fits and leads to lots of goals.

 

[Wagyu Beef]

...and the Richmond donkey recruiters need to get better at the top end of the draft. By and large it’s relatively equal, whereby both recruiting groups have room to improve in different areas.

Gee, wouldn't want to see them with good recruiting...

 

[Wagyu Beef]

We go on about Richmonds success in later parts of the draft, and fair enough Stack and Pickett have been successes. As impressive as Pickett was yesterday in his maiden game, let’s not forget that Gibbo, who was also selected later than late, played 20 games this season. Some perspective please, Ninethomd aren’t the be all end all.

Quit living in the past.

 

[therubbernub]

The ball is in his court. Never the less, is be part of our 2020 plans and be part of of our rotation plans. If he’s form justifies AFL selection, he gets games, else he plays midfield VFL to earn the right.

It sure is in his court. But if we get Papley, Betts and Martin I cant see him getting a game

 

[Opine]

Quit living in the past.

Have you ever come across a prospective assessment of past recruiting performance? if so can you elaborate precisely on how that is done? Are you by any chance suggesting that no assessment of previous performance is appropriately necessary?

 

[Opine]

Gee, wouldn't want to see them with good recruiting...

Then don’t you dare look

 

[Opine]

And what about the other 6-8 players who played who they got in the low rounds of the draft, the rookie draft and the pre-season draft? As long as we got Gibbo though, a guy that SOS had no interest in, until it was forced upon us.

Low rounds were predominately all they had available to choose from; so indirectly, those later selections were similarly imposed upon them as a matter of necessity. However, its reasonable to conclude that if they had a sufficient number of earlier selections they likely would not have chosen the 6 to 8 you’re referring to in such glowing terms. Regardless, despite that those 6 to 8 selections appear to have gone ok, it doesn’t diminish the probability that being in possession of a larger number of earlier selections increases the likelihood of better selections overall. SOS has clearly focussed on getting into the earlier zone of the draft where the probability of success is higher. That’s a good strategy.

 

[Opine]

Really? The top picks they have picked guys like Cotchin, Martin, Rioli, Riewolt, Rance, Vlastuin, Higgins, Prestia (trade)

Are we discussing the current draft era, or are we going back a decade? If so, then we may as well venture into a decade and a half and consider Tambling into our assessment.

 

[DangerousD]

Regardless, despite that those 6 to 8 selections appear to have gone ok, it doesn’t diminish the probability that being in possession of a larger number of earlier selections increases the likelihood of better selections overall. SOS has clearly focussed on getting into the earlier zone of the draft where the probability of success is higher. That’s a good strategy.

Whilst i mostly agree, i always wonder if you get a good enough spread of, the right kind of players at the top end of the draft. Im not sure if i mis interpreted a few of your posts but it sounded like you were being dismissive of a clubs recruiting who have just won their 2nd flag in 3 years, if that's the case i think you're way off. You might argue its more about development than drafting and you might be right but when you win two premierships with, i think it was 8 rookies or psd players, then im giving a tick to the recruiters.

Their side has a lot of 1st round picks in it, either drafted or traded, which fills me with confidence in relation to our list but then a part of me is sceptical of SOS and his strategies in regards to rookies and the PSD up until the present. A big improvement is needed. Yes we got Gibbons and im so glad we did, but it seemed, imo, that it was just by chance and not something SOS set out to do.

 

[DangerousD]

If you think Brodie, has the final say in a recruit, so be it

All I would add as evidence for the masses is who lead and delivered the outcome in selecting Stocker

Im not sure i follow your reasoning here Arrow. SOS delivered the outcome in selecting Stocker, it was a tactical move, a trade, it was a list management decision, signed off by and most probably negotiated by SOS. That doesn't support in anyway that he is in charge of rating players in terms of draft order.

If Brodie or the team had Stocker high, it would of been conveyed to SOS and he would have then made decisions on how to acquire that player.

Im not saying the other poster is right or that Brodie does have final say, but your reason doesn't make one clearer than the other.

 

[Stamos]

If you think Brodie, has the final say in a recruit, so be it

All I would add as evidence for the masses is who lead and delivered the outcome in selecting Stocker

Obviously Brodie wasn’t involved in the trading of picks, that’s a list manager’s job, not that of the National Recruiting Manager. Brodie would absolutely be in charge of rating Stocker, and positioning him (at 6) on our draft board.

 

[Stamos]

Tell me how many more games you think Brodie gets to, compared to SOS?

A shitload. Do yourself a favour, listen to the Agresta podcast.

Whooshkaa Shows

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[Opine]

Whilst i mostly agree, i always wonder if you get a good enough spread of, the right kind of players at the top end of the draft. Im not sure if i mis interpreted a few of your posts but it sounded like you were being dismissive of a clubs recruiting who have just won their 2nd flag in 3 years, if that's the case i think you're way off. You might argue its more about development than drafting and you might be right but when you win two premierships with, i think it was 8 rookies or psd players, then im giving a tick to the recruiters.

Their side has a lot of 1st round picks in it, either drafted or traded, which fills me with confidence in relation to our list but then a part of me is sceptical of SOS and his strategies in regards to rookies and the PSD up until the present. A big improvement is needed. Yes we got Gibbons and im so glad we did, but it seemed, imo, that it was just by chance and not something SOS set out to do.

Truth is I‘m trying to cleanse myself of continuing to refer to Richmond in glowing terms; I was rooting for them all of last week through yesterday. Consequently, am reluctant to give them any further credit, if I can justifiably avoid it.

While it’s clear they’ve recruited well of late, I’m not convinced their current success has predominately been the result of intelligent recruiting. I think their player development, and a seemingly whole of club alignment coupled with clever coaching, has enabled them to manufacture a culture conducive to getting the most from their list‘s natural strengths. That same culture has arguably resulted in, amongst other things, a willingness to risk selecting what Plow has cleverly referred to as “legally challenged” yet talented footballers; refer Stack and Pickett; I love those selections.

I reckon, the central key to their success has been a healthy dose of belief and fair dinkum support in one another, from top to bottom. Put our list into that environment and we‘d arguably kick some major goals also.

 

[DangerousD]

Truth is I‘m trying to cleanse myself of continuing to refer to Richmond in glowing terms; I was rooting for them all of last week through yesterday. Consequently, am reluctant to give them any further credit, if I can justifiably avoid it.

While it’s clear they’ve recruited well of late, I’m not convinced their current success has predominately been the result of intelligent recruiting. I think their player development, and a seemingly whole of club alignment coupled with clever coaching, has enabled them to manufacture a culture conducive to getting the most from their list‘s natural strengths. That same culture has arguably resulted in, amongst other things, a willingness to risk selecting what Plow has cleverly referred to as “legally challenged” yet talented footballers; refer Stack and Pickett; I love those selections.

I reckon, the central key to their success has been a healthy dose of belief and fair dinkum support in one another, from top to bottom. Put our list into that environment and we‘d arguably kick some major goals also.

Not long ag Hardwick was asked a question along the lines of would you rather a great tackler or a great kick or something to that effect and he mentioned that it was a trait that he and the club were targeting. I think it was in reference to a lot of their smalls who don't have good skills but tackle lots and apply pressure.

It made me wonder, would SOS pick guys like this? This is what i meant, when i said im not sure you get a good spread of the right types at the pointy end of the draft.