Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Michael Jezz]

Quit living in the past.

Pickett is 10 times the player gibbons is or ever will be. Gibbons and Deluca types are plodders who don't win you finals. Stack and Pickett are game breakers

 

[thylacine60]

big jezza comes in over the top in a brutal hail of gunfire.................and adds nothing like no-one else can............respect.........

 

[Mr_Plow]

Not exactly vindicating my POTY nomination for him.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Pickett is 10 times the player gibbons is or ever will be. Gibbons and Deluca types are plodders who don't win you finals. Stack and Pickett are game breakers

Revisit this thought. Gibbons is a pretty good football player and helped our deplorable team win a few games, which is much more difficult than playing an ancillary role in a champion team.

 

[Wagyu Beef]

Pickett is 10 times the player gibbons is or ever will be. Gibbons and Deluca types are plodders who don't win you finals. Stack and Pickett are game breakers

This has what to do with someone calling a club that's won 2 of the last 3 premierships ninethmond?

 

[Doro]

Not long ag Hardwick was asked a question along the lines of would you rather a great tackler or a great kick or something to that effect and he mentioned that it was a trait that he and the club were targeting. I think it was in reference to a lot of their smalls who don't have good skills but tackle lots and apply pressure.

It made me wonder, would SOS pick guys like this? This is what i meant, when i said im not sure you get a good spread of the right types at the pointy end of the draft.

I was just having a look at some team stats. Interestingly Richmond were last in the league for clearances and second last for contested possession numbers. The only thing they were best in was metres gained. They certainly play a different brand.

 

[Wagyu Beef]

Have you ever come across a prospective assessment of past recruiting performance? if so can you elaborate precisely on how that is done? Are you by any chance suggesting that no assessment of previous performance is appropriately necessary?

Well, they're certainly words...

 

[Opine]

Well, they're certainly words...

Wrote those words over an hour ago. Stop living in the past.

 

[Pafloyul]

And what about the other 6-8 players who played who they got in the low rounds of the draft, the rookie draft and the pre-season draft? As long as we got Gibbo though, a guy that SOS had no interest in, until it was forced upon us.

Yep, our record with low picks and the rookie draft has been shocking. It seems like we are trying to make almost every selection into a pure mid of the solid citizen variety. There's zero ambition.

 

[blue_trinity]

Tell me how many more games you think Brodie gets to, compared to SOS?

Id say sos gets out to more games than the average list manager. That’s purely a guess based on the background in recruitment sos has and the type of person he is. 5-10 perhaps.

I know for a fact that there are list managers (good ones too) that went to less than that. My old boss only ever came out to watch champs finals in Melbourne for example. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that’s all sos got to either tbh.

The overall ranking is very much a team decision, but covering every game (live), reviewing countless hours of footage, every day discussion of draftees, phone calls to coaches etc, bulk of the interviewing etc is done by the recruitment team (Brodie etc)

Maybe if sos really felt strongly about a certain player that should/should not be drafted he could put his foot down. But do you honestly think an organisation would employ someone to be an expert on each draft year, only to then not listen to them?

 

[blue_trinity]

Im not sure i follow your reasoning here Arrow. SOS delivered the outcome in selecting Stocker, it was a tactical move, a trade, it was a list management decision, signed off by and most probably negotiated by SOS. That doesn't support in anyway that he is in charge of rating players in terms of draft order.

If Brodie or the team had Stocker high, it would of been conveyed to SOS and he would have then made decisions on how to acquire that player.

Im not saying the other poster is right or that Brodie does have final say, but your reason doesn't make one clearer than the other.

Exactly right. Thanks

 

[Michael Jezz]

Revisit this thought. Gibbons is a pretty good football player and helped our deplorable team win a few games, which is much more difficult than playing an ancillary role in a champion team.

Ancillary? Pickett was in the top 6 players on the ground

 

[Michael Jezz]

Yep, our record with low picks and the rookie draft has been shocking. It seems like we are trying to make almost every selection into a pure mid of the solid citizen variety. There's zero ambition.

Well Carlton certainly have not got the appropriate risk profile right with late picks. Richmond will risk personality flaws for talent. Carlton take limited personality risk but prefer average talent: polson, gibbons, deluca

 

[Press Box Wing]

Well Carlton certainly have not got the appropriate risk profile right with late picks. Richmond will risk personality flaws for talent. Carlton take limited personality risk but prefer average talent: polson, gibbons, deluca

You need strong foundations to take those risks. We have been building the foundations.

 

[Lace_Out]

The main reason we do not risk personality traits is the fact that our list manager has 2 of his sons on our list, and potentially another in a couple of years .


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Arr0w]

Ancillary? Pickett was in the top 6 players on the ground

Never a question mark on his talent

Perhaps once we have built some maturity in the list, we too are ready to take similar risk/reward players

 

[Brendon Bolt]

Hope SPS is given 20+ videos of Bachar Houli’s year and told to spend the summer studying them.

We desperately need a skilful playmaker coming off half back, but that player still needs to know when to hold and take care of his man.

I think SPS has all the tools, just needs some time.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

My stab at the best 22 with all players fit and before trades, FA and drafting currently ...

Plowman. Jones. Simpson.
Marchbank. Weitering. Docherty.
O’Brien. Ed Curnow. Setterfield.
Cuningham. Charlie Curnow. Murphy.
McGovern. McKay. SPS.
R. Kreuzer. Cripps. Walsh.
I. Newman. Casboult. Gibbons. Fisher

E. Stocker. JSOS. Williamson. Dow.

Depth. Kennedy. TDK. Phillips. Lang. Macreadie. Polson. Finbar. BSOS.

Looking at the emergencies, there are some exciting times should we add Martin, Betts, Papley and Butler as rumoured.

 

[ferrisb]

Watched the tigers from above yesterday.

Their system wins them games.

Set up with numbers behind the ball. Spread fast on the counter attack. Kick to advantage ahead of the ball to elite 1-on-1 players like Martin, mids surge at speed forward to assist and bingo.

The question is for Carlton, do we have the leg speed to apply the pressure that's required and surge forward?

We do not have the speed to replicate Richmond's game plan. But who says we need to?

Before Richmond, it was Hawthorn with elite keepings off and before that Geelong with an elite rebounding defense and midfielders running in waves. I am happy for us to develop our own plan, built off coaches' ideas and leveraging our talent profile.

Having said that, the game does appear on a long-term trend of favouring increased running/endurance. Not just the last couple of years, but over the last 30. So I don't expect that to reverse any time soon. So you would think better gameplans and lists would leverage this. SOS does like his players to have endurance (even our KPPs are 'runners' for their size). And Russell seems to have made big endurance gains in just on off-season. This year we ran out games better than I have seen us do in 20 years. A few more off-seasons and we could be league-leaders in this department.

 

[FRUMPY]

Those bringing up players like Stack and Pickett, sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. Richmond had zero luck with the Yarran trade. It is easier when you already have a premiership quality side to work from

 

[Jeremias]

We do not have the speed to replicate Richmond's game plan. But who says we need to?

Not yet.

Get back to me in three weeks.

 

[El Topo]

Well Carlton certainly have not got the appropriate risk profile right with late picks. Richmond will risk personality flaws for talent. Carlton take limited personality risk but prefer average talent: polson, gibbons, deluca

Gibbons is a near archetypal 'Richmond' player and on field antagonist. The grass isn't always greener, jezzman.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

We do not have the speed to replicate Richmond's game plan. But who says we need to?

Before Richmond, it was Hawthorn with elite keepings off and before that Geelong with an elite rebounding defense and midfielders running in waves. I am happy for us to develop our own plan, built off coaches' ideas and leveraging our talent profile.

Having said that, the game does appear on a long-term trend of favouring increased running/endurance. Not just the last couple of years, but over the last 30. So I don't expect that to reverse any time soon. So you would think better gameplans and lists would leverage this. SOS does like his players to have endurance (even our KPPs are 'runners' for their size). And Russell seems to have made big endurance gains in just on off-season. This year we ran out games better than I have seen us do in 20 years. A few more off-seasons and we could be league-leaders in this department.

Agree. Still think we need a few more explosive types however. We have built a great base to work from, now we hunt for our needs.

 

[David C]

Those bringing up players like Stack and Pickett, sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. Richmond had zero luck with the Yarran trade. It is easier when you already have a premiership quality side to work from

Absolutely Stack and Pickett were risky selections but they have settled really well and could be game changers for Richmond for years to come. Point taken about Yarran and for another example of how things can suddenly derail you only have to look at Willi Rioli.

 

[kingkingston]

Pickett is 10 times the player gibbons is or ever will be. Gibbons and Deluca types are plodders who don't win you finals. Stack and Pickett are game breakers

Pickett played 1 game.......in a loaded team