Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[mochacinolatte]

We can debate the Club's performance this trade period all we like - it was shithouse IMO - but the facts are we didn't get our targets and the perception across the industry is that we're (still) a basketcase. And it will have implications for future trade periods; players will hesitate before choosing Carlton, and certainly before publicly nominating Carlton. If it was anyone else, SOS's position would be in serious question.

Lets have a debate now then.

3 players wanted to go to Carlton Papley, Martin and Betts.

1. We are not basket case if good players have nominated us.

2. We manage to get Eddie Betts for a token pick without paying full salary (Good), everyone loves a good story.

3. Papley deal was never going to get done unless the Joe Danniher was traded to Sydney. Sydney didn't want lose a good quality player without another quality player coming back in. Therefore this trade was out of hand literally.

“We were told unequivocally that picks five and nine wouldn’t get it done. I guess when you’re talking about responsibility to your club, to get nine without the guarantee of getting Joe, I don’t think that would be responsible list management”

Source: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/10...-and-the-two-swans-mentioned-in-negotiations/

4. Gold Coast asking price for Jack Martin was too much. They asked for out Future First + Future Second Round for Jack Martin + Pick 15.

source: https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=446921

Based on draft calculator and where we finish this year that rates Martin as Pick 13. So if we did end up trading our future first (good chance to be a top 8 pick) and future second (pick in 20s). It literally cripples us next year when there are good quality FA in 2020 with no trade assests. So why burn ourselves for Jack Martin when there are 'better' players in next year pool.

1. Whitfield
2. Crouch
3. Grundy
4. Cameron
5. Gaff
6. Heppell

"But next year draft is compromise", no one knows how the 2020 draft will turn out, some of these kids can turn out to be spuds and hype.

Edit: "but the facts are we didn't get our targets and the perception across the industry is that we're (still) a basketcase." That is a long bow to draw unless you know everyone in the industry and personal views. Everyone viewed Gold Coast a Basket Case and yet they had a few players requesting a trade up there.

 

[Monkey King]

Who gives a shit about picks anymore.. we’ve had so many young kids come through the door.. should have paid overs to get these players

For a proven player like Shiel, sure! For a player like Martin, nah.

We finished 3rd last this year, and Martin is far from being the finishing touch on our rebuild. We’re still gonna need decent currency for future trades, so rather than overpaying with a top 10 pick and future second and leaving ourselves short later on, let’s bank the currency and have another swing at it next year.

 

[KohPhi]

No point blaming the weather man if it rains when it's not supposed to - he makes the best prediction he can, based on the information he has at the time.

Your right. But the weather man never says "it will not rain today" or " I can 100% guarantee the sun will stay out all day".
The Weather man says "today will be sunny with a chance of showers in the afternoon".

Always covers his tracks.

 

[Blue__Balls]

So then we'll have two small forwards on out list.

Most clubs aren't that thin in a position.

Would have been in the same position if we'd traded for Papley, yeah? We also have multiple late picks if we want to grab another small forward there too. Could draft 4 if we want.

We miss Papley, instead we draft a quality small forward who gets to learn from the best in the business. Papley can still have another crack at coming over next year and take Eddie's spot. And if he doesn't, well, we've got another 12 months to target someone else.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

yep, took me 30 minutes afterwards, wouldnt that be normal to get over it?

I’m a man who holds a grudge for a long time if it deserves it. Horses for courses.

 

[chelseacarlton]

“And if you can’t be with the one you love, honey love the one you’re with”.

“You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need”.


ya’ know what I mean.......?

 

[DangerousD]

Wears number 7.

Breaking mirrors gets you 7 years of bad luck.

Fyfe seems the type of guy to look into mirrors a lot.

Butler has played 22 games in the last 2 years... and has only played 45 games over the course of his 5 season career so far! Butler kicked 53 goals from his 45 games at Premiershipmond... massive!
Cutler has played a whopping 66 games in 6 seasons at the paddlepops and only played 3 games this year. He has kicked a whopping 32 goals... in 66 matches.

Lewis Taylor... 112 games, 88 goals, 5 games this year.
Callum Ah Chee... 45 games, 24 goals. 1 game this year.

It makes me laugh when I read posts like this. All of the guys you mentioned were cheap, you laugh at their careers/stats and make disparaging comments, no mention of the fact that Butler and Taylor’s numbers are a long way ahead of most on our list. But hey, they’re crap and all our players are great.

We turn our noses up at Butler and Taylor but give a 4 year deal to Cuningham who has managed 24 games in 4 years.

 

[FRUMPY]

Your right. But the weather man never says "it will not rain today" or " I can 100% guarantee the sun will stay out all day".
The Weather man says "today will be sunny with a chance of showers in the afternoon".

Always covers his tracks.

They need to borrow Damian Barrett's line 'as it sits today, we will get this player' to appease the masses

 

[Blue__Balls]

Melbourne certainly has the need for him, whether they have the cap space to match is another question.

I do not agree that we should be offering a $1M for 1 year deal. What happens if three months down the track he has a falling out with Teague/Cripps etc amd refuses to re-sign or extend.

Don't let it get to that point - negotiate with his manager as to what the plan is and have the extension ready for him to sign 5 mins after he drops his stuff in his locker.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Good on Essendon, back themselves in to keep a player they want to build their side around

If Charlie Curnow wanted out when he was signed, I would hope carlton would keep him unless we got what WE wanted in return

Well of course we would Charlie is 22 yrs old and 4 yrs from free agency whereas Daniher is 25 injury prone and a year out from FA .
Essendon had a massive opportunity to cash in on Daniher who will most likely leave at the end of next year and finally canvass their biggest team issue inside midfielders .
But they didn't because they recruited Shiel last year and had to be seen to be still trying to win a premiership which we all know won't happen after landing Shiel for a hefty price .
Just Essendon and Dodoro chest beating as they do each trade period whilst at the same time making a farce of the system that is the trade period .

 

[jd2010]

Did Langdon want to play for us? He has been linked to Melbourne for a very long time

Start the discussions early enough and test the waters. Plenty of players we never really made a concerted effort to bring through. Gave up on Butler and Ellis and focused on the main 2 targets. That's fine assuming you get both. Getting 1 then you're still missing out. Getting none and it can't be seen as a good player movement period.

 

[bluebaggerjuls]

Has his manager came out and categorically said it's only us?

Been rather quiet from that camp to be honest.

SOS told the media last night that he has told Carlton he wants to play for them

 

[FRUMPY]

Start the discussions early enough and test the waters. Plenty of players we never really made a concerted effort to bring through. Gave up on Butler and Ellis and focused on the main 2 targets. That's fine assuming you get both. Getting 1 then you're still missing out. Getting none and it can't be seen as a good player movement period.

Gave up on Butler and Ellis because we didn't want them - simple

Langdon was never on our radar, did you want him 6 months ago?

 

[lily of laguna]

Geez..............the swans would never offer 9 to * unless they already had an agreed deal with us. Syd had agreed to our deal terms for papley, that's why they were able to offer it to the *. It's just the swans were not going to release Papley unless.they got daniher.

In fairness, I haven’t read anywhere that we offered 9 on its own for Paps. Everything was with a second coming back. It’s entirely possible that SOS out a price and didn’t go above it.

I would be disappointed if we didn’t offer 9 on its own.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Opine]

In fairness, I haven’t read anywhere that we offered 9 on its own for Paps. Everything was with a second coming back. It’s entirely possible that SOS out a price and didn’t go above it.

I would be disappointed if we didn’t offer 9 on its own.

I think the offering of picks is somewhat incidental to the real issue. Sydney made it‘s needs clear, and likewise made it clear that its decision on whether or not to trade Paps was always going to depend on whether a trade scenario satisfied its need; ie to replace a goal kicker with a goal kicker. Its probably fair to ask whether any proposal put forward was tailored and communicated in response to that need, but that’s really it.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

“And if you can’t be with the one you love, honey love the one you’re with”.

“You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need”.


ya’ know what I mean.......?

I think “I can’t get no satisfaction’ is in the hymn book this morning.

 

[mjonc43]

Their is hard to deal with and giving someone up for free after being given a large number of handouts.

A really awesome effort by the Gold Coast again.


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[jd2010]

Gave up on Butler and Ellis because we didn't want them - simple

Langdon was never on our radar, did you want him 6 months ago?

I've wanted an established wingman for 2 years.

Would you rather Butler or Cam Polson?

 

[kjr8]

Mate, we didn't need Mitch McGovern.... We already had 2 talls. But do we need a goal kicking half forward and a small forward? Yes. So yes, SOS totally bottled this trade period.

Didn’t need coz we had 2 talls. One missed half the season and the other also missed games. Mate.


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[DangerousD]

How so?
Surely players don’t expect their new club to massively overpay and weaken themselves in order to bring them in.

I’d hazard a guess that both Papley and Martin are more disappointed in their clubs than they are in Carlton

Not so sure, Saints get Hill done and all their targets, going in to next year, they can go to players and point to a track record, make a commitment to us and we will get it done. Same with WC with Kelly.

It’s very hard as we don’t know our final offer to Sydney, but reading between the lines, we didn’t even offer pick 9 on its own.

I hate this crap, with people saying Papley wasn’t available, if he wasn’t available, why did SOS spend 10 days on trying to get him.

Posters for years have said/joked SOS doesn’t overpay, well good luck trying to land big players in the future.

 

[Gethelred]

Not according to the fine folks on the Suns board. They are going to take him in the PSD, sign him to a minimum contract and play him in the NEAFL all season.

Read some of your conversations in there.

I'm be surprised if they use cutlery when they eat. Bit feral in there.

 

[FRUMPY]

I've wanted an established wingman for 2 years.

Would you rather Butler or Cam Polson?

Neither and by end of the 2020 we wont have either

We do it your way, we have both on our list

 

[Navy blue whale]

Thank you

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[jd2010]

Neither and by end of the 2020 we wont have either

Unless pick 9 becomes a small forward we won't have a 2nd high pressure fwd until 2021 at the earliest

 

[reubsblues]

Cliff notes:

Martin can nominate for the Pre Season Draft, which takes place after the National Draft is concluded.
He can stipulate his contract terms which need to be matched in order to select him.
The draft order is reverse final ladder - GC, Melbourne, Carlton etc.

So yes, Gold Coast could take him first, and have threatened to. But if he stipulates a one year deal for $1.1mil, they'd have to be willing and able to pay him that and fit it in their salary cap. Ditto Melbourne. Gold Coast are already overpaying players to keep them up north, and would probably cause a mutiny if they paid him double what most of their players are getting just to block a move to Carlton. Melbourne certainly don't have that sort of cap space to play with given they've recruited guys like May, Lever and Tomlinson in the past two off-seasons.

So Carlton get him with Pick 3 in PSD, pay him his $1.1mil in 2020, and sign an early extension for 3 years on $300k per year. He gets to Carlton, he gets his 4x years @ $500k, and Carlton don't give up any picks for him.

I wonder if the afl will sign off on this remembering they hate us