Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[JustaBattler]

Dodo wasn't the 'bad guy', so much as the 'stupid guy'.
He was offered massive overs for a player who has managed 11 games in 2 years, doesn't want to be at the club (or in the same state), and will walk as a Free Agent in 1 year's time.
This was a chance for them to start to address their list imbalance. They will have had 3 years without a first round pick. Madness.

All valid points - but all add up to POV which says that Daniher's 'value' to Essendon may be as much off field as on field re membership and support. Clearly Essendon are backing themselves to get Joe to change his mind. Sydney haven't done themselves any favours with Joe I would imagine - since he nominated them and they didn't seem willing to ante up what may have forced Essendon's hand. I can understand Sydney's reluctance to hand over their pick#5 - they are in rebuild mode too. The whole scenario was based on Essendon accepting a good deal rather than a great deal - Essendon are a big enough Club to insist - they weren't going to be boxed in or bullied by Sydney - or Joe. I reckon Dodoro wouldn't have been the only person involved in deciding to reject Sydney.

 

[FRUMPY]

Gavstar suggested something above that has perked my interest. What terms can players include in their contract? Being realistic here, can Martin include 4 weeks annual leave mid season, if he chooses? Obviously as a deterrent to others, but if he gets to us, you would hope, he doesn’t enact it?

Other than length and $$$$ what else can a player do to enhance his chances of getting to pick 3?

Years and $$$$ - clubs just have to match those terms (match the amount off dollars over the term, not the exact breakdown of dollars per year)

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

In a severely compromised draft I would not be entertaining that idea


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I definitely agree we want to avoid next year's draft.

My idea was that it would give us a lot of currency for player trades to clubs who need picks/points to get their academy players.
We then trade out as much as we can for experienced players, like our 2nd crack at Papley and some sort of quality mid.

 

[FRUMPY]

Bennell is scary. Risky. Don't want.

Gold Coast should take him back with open arms now that their culture is fixed.

I don't think it is any risk - will come extremely cheap, maybe as a rookie and if it doesn't work or his off field stuff gets out of hand, delist.

Upside is massive if he can stay injury free and behave

 

[ctwenty1]

I'm heartened by the confidence here that we will get Martin for free. I'm heartened to hear his manager say that he still wants to come to Carlton and has declined Melbourne. However, despite this, I'm still very uncomfortable with this whole situation. This appears to be a really important acquisition for the club on field, and the potential to get this for free is really exciting. But I just have a feeling there is more to play out here with Melbourne. I have a gut feeling they will make a move here, whether that is reorganizing salary cap space or using May and Jetta to convince him to come to Melbourne.

Perhaps I'm being irrationally anxious but until Martin is in a navy blue jumper I will be a bit on edge.

Im heartened by the fact MM no longer looks like your avi

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Gavstar suggested something above that has perked my interest. What terms can players include in their contract? Being realistic here, can Martin include 4 weeks annual leave mid season, if he chooses? Obviously as a deterrent to others, but if he gets to us, you would hope, he doesn’t enact it?

Other than length and $$$$ what else can a player do to enhance his chances of getting to pick 3?

Stipulates he needs to be dressed in navy blue, for mental health reasons.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

He prices himself out of the market. Simple.

Melb have brought in several highly paid players the last 2 years. They have many players out of contract next year.

They aren't going to throw 800k and risk
1. He doesn't play and they still have to pay him; or
2. He demands out after 12 months

How will those contract negotiations go for them? They'll throw 800k at someone who doesn't want to be there, and will only offer 500k to a servant of their club? Exodus. Brayshaw, Viney, Jones and others will all seek out.

I think Melbourne will just take the easy and safe option and steer clear of a potential media dumpster fire.

If I was a Melbourne supporter I would be wanting my club to take the risk. If he doesn’t play then he has broken his contract and he doesn’t have to be paid and I imagine de-registered for two years?
Also I imagine he would try otherwise it’s not great from a character point of view and if he does want out after one season, trade him.
Best case he actually enjoys his time and they regain form and stays long term.
It’s a risk but I would take if I was them. (And could afford it, which I think will hopefully be their problem)

 

[zeggie]

zeggie is there an approximate date we’ll know what’s happening with Martin? Or even a timeframe?

22 November.

Predict Martin is discussing how he should nominate with his cohort, and the wheels will start turning once he does. We won't know anything else until he does.

GCS unlikely to withdraw their contract. They should but wont. CuLtUrE.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

I don't think it is any risk - will come extremely cheap, maybe as a rookie and if it doesn't work or his off field stuff gets out of hand, delist.

Upside is massive if he can stay injury free and behave

Might be worth a shot to rookie him.
Hopefully his new family and the guiding hand of Eddie will help him keep on the straight and narrow.
If he can't, sack immediately.

 

[Foucault1989]

Im heartened by the fact MM no longer looks like your avi

Yeah this picture was posted on his Instagram shortly before coming to Carlton. Not a great look

 

[zeggie]

Gavstar suggested something above that has perked my interest. What terms can players include in their contract? Being realistic here, can Martin include 4 weeks annual leave mid season, if he chooses? Obviously as a deterrent to others, but if he gets to us, you would hope, he doesn’t enact it?

Other than length and $$$$ what else can a player do to enhance his chances of getting to pick 3?

Nomination's are pretty limited. Term and money only.

You negotiate those extra perks and things when being traded or negotiating a new contract with your club.

 

[HBF]

Spoke to someone very high up at Melbourne. They won’t be taking Jack Martin and Ollie Wines will be at Carlton in 2021

Me likey like this.

 

[Stamos]

If the Suns delist him, they lose any bargaining power or perceived bargaining power that they may have built up. It’s possible the Suns know Martin will get to us and are making a point. Adelaide or Port won’t be in a similar position next year and will need to trade for any targets.

If they delist him, it’s entirely pointless.

So it seems very much that it wasn't so much The Suns making a point, as Cochrane making a complete ****wit out of himself.
They can admit their mistake and delist him, or double down and we have to wait until the PSD.

 

[zeggie]

If I was a Melbourne supporter I would be wanting my club to take the risk. If he doesn’t play then he has broken his contract and he doesn’t have to be paid and I imagine de-registered for two years?
Also I imagine he would try otherwise it’s not great from a character point of view and if he does want out after one season, trade him.
Best case he actually enjoys his time and they regain form and stays long term.
It’s a risk but I would take if I was them. (And could afford it, which I think will hopefully be their problem)

You're wrong on one key point. They do have to pay him. Even if he doesn't play.

 

[zeggie]

Spoke to someone very high up at Melbourne. They won’t be taking Jack Martin and Ollie Wines will be at Carlton in 2021

Why would someone at Melbourne know Ollie's plans a year from now?

 

[windows1]

Yep

I see that as a good thing. Classic good cop bad cop by GC. I’d bet it means they want to discuss a pick swap still. Can’t have that chat if we are too pissed off.

“Best you ring SOs and apologise”

 

[zeggie]

If the Suns delist him, they lose any bargaining power or perceived bargaining power that they may have built up. It’s possible the Suns know Martin will get to us and are making a point. Adelaide or Port won’t be in a similar position next year and will need to trade for any targets.

If they delist him, it’s entirely pointless.

Different scenario next year. Luko would be inclined to enter the National Draft.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

You're wrong on one key point. They do have to pay him. Even if he doesn't play.

The only reason he wouldn’t be playing is because he isn’t at the club, surely players have some obligations in their contract

 

[HARKER]

Craig cameron phoned sos this morning to apologise for what happened. Said list management team wanted 2 do the original deal agreed but were over ruled by mangement

If this is true and it most likely is because we know how it works, it's a terrible look for the AFL as an organisation.

i.e. No one can really do their job because when it comes down to it, the AFL holds all the cards and if one doesn't do what the AFL tell them to do, then there will be repercussions but if you're a good little boy, then more 'favours' will come your way.

It's getting hard to take this whole thing seriously and someone/somehow has to put a spotlight on the blatant corrupt organisation that has hs now taken hold of what we called 'Our great sport' but maybe it's too late for that now, as once you've exposed yourself to crime it becomes the standard. Can't turn back.

 

[windows1]

22 November.

Predict Martin is discussing how he should nominate with his cohort, and the wheels will start turning once he does. We won't know anything else until he does.

GCS unlikely to withdraw their contract. They should but wont. CuLtUrE.

I think they will offer that Zeggie. If they don’t they have no hope of getting a pick swap with us. The bluff and blister on the one hand coupled with the apology on the other is a telling sign. Craig Cameron to SOS “mate he’s crazy, he could do anything” in reference to Cochrane. “How about we just get a deal done and We delist him for you by Oct 31?”

Time will tell.

 

[Percy2257]

GCS won't draft him.

Despite the AFL/Cochrane whispering sweet nothings into Cameron's ear telling him to play tough guy against all the meanie clubs, the AFL knows it will open a massive can of worms and turn into a shit show. It could even end up in Court. AFL would lose.

Melbourne are the only legit threat. Price them out of the market. He can tell them he's moving on after a year if they select him. Roll the dice.

For Jack's sake I hope the AFL just tell GCS to delist him to end the GCS nightmare he's living which they won't allow him to escape. This entire unprecedented situation is the AFL's own doing. Like giving $100,000 to a kid that's been on Centrelink for 6 years and "hoping for the best".

I agree. If Martin is forced to go back to GCS or be picked up by Melbourne, he and Carlton should go to Court and bring claims against the AFL etc for unreasonable, therefore illegal, restraints on their trading rights. The AFL know that the current system is vulnerable to and likely to lose such an attack.

 

[Opine]

Is this phone call apology legit?

What apology are you referring to Plow?

 

[WalshYouLegend]

According to today’s article in TheAge, Suns intend to re-draft Martin in the PSD even if he puts a high $ value on his head. They say they are willing to shuffle payments with other players to stay under the cap.

I’m not sure how realistic this is for Suns to do and what scope they have with their Salary cap situation. But they are certainly playing hard ball all the way and Melbourne are apparently intending to swoop too in PSD (not sure if they could afford though).

Wonder how high the $ value would have to be to block Suns and Demons?

 

[Wily trout]

Psd is not the way to go as you primary recruiting strategy. It does not build goodwill with the other clubs a d so is not a sustainable strategy imo. But it is there for when players are being unreasonably dealt with as in the case with Martin and gold coast.

Think Goldcoast need to build the goodwill back with us if anything.

 

[Percy2257]

Jack Newnes is the one we are after according to news reports this morning

But Newnes has a two year offer on the table from St Kilda. He may decide to stay there.