Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[TerryWallet]

SOS has been in the job for 4 years. On the Dodoro Scale, SOS has another 13 years to win a final.

 

[I bleed Blue]

So read Barass post earlier today and I've been thinking on it. Generally love what SOS has done putting this list together.

But I thought I would try to play devils advocate and think why the club would be moving him on, if indeed it's the clubs decision.

When SOS took charge he would of outlined his list management plan. Which has been fairly obvious and sometimes communicated to the outside.

Seems the plan has been-
- move on players with currency who won't be around in our window. And cash in on high draft picks.
- hit the draft hard for 3 or so years.
- FA and trade for needs after that.

It was pretty common knowledge that we thought our drafting phase was over and now moving into the trade for needs phase.

Coming into this off season sos would have outlined his plan for this year. The aim was obviously aquire gun mid through FA and trade for small forwards and outside speed... and lets face it. We didn't accomplish our goal this off season.

Landing trade and FA targets haven't been our strong point. Saad. Smith. Shiel. Cogs. Papley. Martin. These are guys we obviously chased pretty hard.

There's obviously 2 parts. Getting them to chose us. Then getting a deal done.

Now I know this board is going to backlash me and say "our list wasn't ready for Shiel" "blessing in disguise we missed" (which I actually agree with)... but as a board we tend to defend and support whatever actually transpires. If we had of landed Shiel this board would be saying "sucks we missed on Walsh but we needed to get support in for Cripps or we would have cooked him" etc.

Anyway our goal was to recruit Shiel, which we failed to do. If it's a blessing in disguise we missed that means our main plan was wrong to begin with?

It will probably work out with Martin in the end but certainly wasn't the plan.

There are obviously things outside of SOS control IE gold coast concessions.

Missing on Papley... "he was never available" ... okay so we picked the wrong target to invest all our time into?

We hang alot of shit on Dodo but he nails his trade targets. Smith. Saad. Stringer. Shiel.

Not going to go into our rookie drafting. that speaks for itself.

Still playing devils advocate and taking my navy blue glasses off. Would have to say

SOS strengths-

- Trading out players for maximum return
- Top end of draft recruiting
- General list build vision
- Trading for undervalued players (newman, setterfield)

Weaknesses-
- late picks and rookie drafts
- landing trade and FA targets

Overall SOS has done a good job getting our list to where it is.

To his credit trying to entice recruits to us the last few years would have been a extremely difficult job. Obviously easier as we become more attractive.

The club/sos will decide if he is the man to finish this list build off.

He's a beloved son and legend of the club. Will always be a legend of the club no matter what happens. But if the club decides our best chances are with someone else then so be it. The club and jumper will always remain after SOS and all of us are long gone.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

So read Barass post earlier today and I've been thinking on it. Generally love what SOS has done putting this list together.

But I thought I would try to play devils advocate and think why the club would be moving him on, if indeed it's the clubs decision.

When SOS took charge he would of outlined his list management plan. Which has been fairly obvious and sometimes communicated to the outside.

Seems the plan has been-
- move on players with currency who won't be around in our window. And cash in on high draft picks.
- hit the draft hard for 3 or so years.
- FA and trade for needs after that.

It was pretty common knowledge that we thought our drafting phase was over and now moving into the trade for needs phase.

Coming into this off season sos would have outlined his plan for this year. The aim was obviously aquire gun mid through FA and trade for small forwards and outside speed... and lets face it. We didn't accomplish our goal this off season.

Landing trade and FA targets haven't been our strong point. Saad. Smith. Shiel. Cogs. Papley. Martin. These are guys we obviously chased pretty hard.

There's obviously 2 parts. Getting them to chose us. Then getting a deal done.

Now I know this board is going to backlash me and say "our list wasn't ready for Shiel" "blessing in disguise we missed" (which I actually agree with)... but as a board we tend to defend and support whatever actually transpires. If we had of landed Shiel this board would be saying "sucks we missed on Walsh but we needed to get support in for Cripps or we would have cooked him" etc.

Anyway our goal was to recruit Shiel, which we failed to do. If it's a blessing in disguise we missed that means our main plan was wrong to begin with?

It will probably work out with Martin in the end but certainly wasn't the plan.

There are obviously things outside of SOS control IE gold coast concessions.

Missing on Papley... "he was never available" ... okay so we picked the wrong target to invest all our time into?

We hang alot of shit on Dodo but he nails his trade targets. Smith. Saad. Stringer. Shiel.

Not going to go into our rookie drafting. that speaks for itself.

Still playing devils advocate and taking my navy blue glasses off. Would have to say

SOS strengths-

- Trading out players for maximum return
- Top end of draft recruiting
- General list build vision
- Trading for undervalued players (newman, setterfield)

Weaknesses-
- late picks and rookie drafts
- landing trade and FA targets

Overall SOS has done a good job getting our list to where it is.

To his credit trying to entice recruits to us the last few years would have been a extremely difficult job. Obviously easier as we become more attractive.

The club/sos will decide if he is the man to finish this list build off.

He's a beloved son and legend of the club. Will always be a legend of the club no matter what happens. But if the club decides our best chances are with someone else then so be it. The club and jumper will always remain after SOS and all of us are long gone.

Good read, well balanced
Probably won’t be popular but well done.

 

[TD2010]

Mickey Mouse could of put GWS list together with a million first round picks.

What do GWS have missing now though? I would suggest fun and passion. They're too serious.

And if I had a criticism of SOS it would be this too. That's where the Betts decision might have caused a fracture. Teague and Liddle saw the romanticism, love and passion that came with him, whereas SOS was steely focused and considered him a distraction.

SOS has done the hard yards, maybe it requires a different personality to get the big signings over the line and find gold in the later picks.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[LanceRomance]

SOS has been in the job for 4 years. On the Dodoro Scale, SOS has another 13 years to win a final.

Did Dodoro have any sons at the club?

I feel like this may be a propaganda thing.

 

[Ockhams razor]

Deluca wasn’t SOS’ choice, he wanted Kyle Dunkley, but was overruled.

 

[Stamos]

Deluca wasn’t SOS’ choice, he wanted Kyle Dunkley, but was overruled.

Bolts?

 

[chipzac]

Deluca wasn’t SOS’ choice, he wanted Kyle Dunkley, but was overruled.

I'm guessing it's too much to ask who overruled him, but was he overruled by more than one person?

 

[smashbox gill]

Deluca wasn’t SOS’ choice, he wanted Kyle Dunkley, but was overruled.

By Brad Lloyd? If so that’s a disgrace as list manager he should have final say. Maybe this is why he wants to move on, if he’s being interfered with

 

[Beast__Mode]

I think SOS has done, in the main, an outstanding job.

The picks have been generally excellent at the top end.

He’s also brought a sense of normality and modernity to both our trading and drafting. And for the first time o can remember at Carlton there’s been a clear strategy behind our list construction. I remember the sense of dread at what Rogers or Hughes were going to give away for aggressively average plodders or outright busts.


We can debate for days both the effectiveness and responsibility for late picks but as a general rule it’s been a very poor return.

Added to that we’ve had some big misses in getting players to choose us. There’s been talk around Saad, Shiel seems a strange miss etc

To me SOS seems a very proud man, convicted in the merits of his approach and ability, and probably quite rightly so looking at the two lists he’s built.

Liddle is probably the first CEO he’s worked under that wants rigorous oversight. And it would be appropriate to have a look at the above two points and see if there’s a pattern which can be addressed.

Reading between the lines it’s probably a combination of SOS chafing at some internal scrutiny, extra/too many voices in the process, added to the inevitable shitstorm he knows is coming when all three boys are on the list, maybe with a sprinkle of the heavy lifting being done and he’s got half an eye on the next challenge.

I can understand it from both angles, but over all of that I guess I had some sort of vision of SOS on the ground with his boys after a GF win and it’s a genuine shame we/he might not have that moment.

 

[Jabba73]

Looks like there might be a few choices that SOS has been overruled on, not a good look from the club.

Going to be hard if the Board continue to sack key people they have appointed because they don’t trust them to do the job they were hired for without interference, looks like the Board are the incompetent ones.

Coach gone, then list manager ... both who were following the strategy agreed to with the Board.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Look at the history of GWS recruits SOS has bought in. Look at the draft selections outside of first round selections including rookie drafts. Look at the recycled players we've taken. The list is long and very ordinary. Decisions like recruiting Palmer, Lobbe, Shaw, O'Shea, Gorringe, Lebois, Polsen, Schumacher, Kerr, Silvagni(Freo), Deluca, Fasolo, Sumner, Pickett, Lamb, Mullet, Garlett, Phillips, Korcheck, Smedts, Bugg, Gallucci.
All really underwhelming recruits that are no longer at the club except Polsen.
Jury still out on Macreadie, Finbar, Owies, Cottrell.
Only good rookie we've recruited is Gibbons so far.

You can safely leave Alex Silvagni off that list

 

[GT619]

Deluca wasn’t SOS’ choice, he wanted Kyle Dunkley, but was overruled.

bolton

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

Deluca wasn’t SOS’ choice, he wanted Kyle Dunkley, but was overruled.

Do you want him continuing?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Deluca wasn’t SOS’ choice, he wanted Kyle Dunkley, but was overruled.

cheers OR

For what it's worth, I was pretty confused with the Deluca selection as well. We had a free hit at an over-age TAC Cup kid, who may have potentially been a 2nd round pick in the AFL draft, but passed on him. Particularly in a year that Liddle said we would be trading rather than drafting.

It just didn't make sense at the time.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Brandon Ellis please why add a player who adds nothing for 600 k for 5 years
Not all premiership players are good right place right time




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Agree you can get Townsend for a packet of chips

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Well if SOS leaves you know he will do it with dignity and won't carry on throwing knives at people .. sometimes I feel sorry for both he and McKay who both came back to the club as legends to face the disaster it had become and in the end probably without much appreciation from many .. personally I'm grateful to both ..

 

[Hands On]

People are forgetting the magnitude of the clean out each year an he amount of players we had to bring in to make out he numbers. sure some of them were list cloggers and some were salary Cap dumps. but when you are bringing in 10+ players for 2 or 3 seasons in a row the percentage of nailing each pick diminishes significantly.

We look at some examples like Sydney stack, Eddy Betts and assume there is 3 or 4 diamonds in the rough each year.

 

[Hands On]

As list manager he would not have the responsibility of running around to watch each of his prospects. His talent scouts and those below him would be doing that and providing feed back resulting in a collective Decision. For example the Stocker selection was on a strong recommendation from Aggresta & co.

 

[Manhattanite]

cheers OR

For what it's worth, I was pretty confused with the Deluca selection as well. We had a free hit at an over-age TAC Cup kid, who may have potentially been a 2nd round pick in the AFL draft, but passed on him. Particularly in a year that Liddle said we would be trading rather than drafting.

It just didn't make sense at the time.

Exactly I was also keen on Dunkley and to be fair he didn’t set the world on fire when he finally did play seniors but he could be a 200 game player. But I was super keen on having a shot with Josh Dunkley who was out of contract at the time. Pitching to Josh would have been very different if we already had his brother and armed with two first round picks to get it done. Josh is going to be All Australian soon and is already elite.


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[Michael Jezz]

Wrong decision to get rid of SOS.
Nothing more to say

 

[Dadda Dave]

Wrong decision to get rid of SOS.
Nothing more to say

By the sound of things he might be leaving on his terms..

 

[Blue Doormat]

Only a couple of possible people with the clout to overrule someone in SOS’s chair. Seems like it’s not the first time and hasn’t turned out great when it’s happened.

Selections like Palmer, Fasolo and Bugg is a better list move IMO than grabbing an 18 year old and waiting 2-3 years to see if they can play. These older blokes helped SOS with the list turnover because they were very easy to delist (often after 1 year)

Maybe he should leave. Seems our list is in diabolical shape. Maybe the grass is greener elsewhere.

My questions for the doubters. Aside from Polson and maybe Lang what is wrong with the list we have outside of being young? What list are you pining for?
Which List manager are you bringing in?

 

[OldBlueFan]

Look at the history of GWS recruits SOS has bought in. Look at the draft selections outside of first round selections including rookie drafts. Look at the recycled players we've taken. The list is long and very ordinary. Decisions like recruiting Palmer, Lobbe, Shaw, O'Shea, Gorringe, Lebois, Polsen, Schumacher, Kerr, Silvagni(Freo), Deluca, Fasolo, Sumner, Pickett, Lamb, Mullet, Garlett, Phillips, Korcheck, Smedts, Bugg, Gallucci.
All really underwhelming recruits that are no longer at the club except Polsen.
Jury still out on Macreadie, Finbar, Owies, Cottrell.
Only good rookie we've recruited is Gibbons so far.

It would be nice if people could be a little less disingenuous than this to make their point.

Palmer, Sumner and Lamb were all players that were taken to facilitate the trade of a player that we actually wanted (Palmer for Marchbank, Lamb/Sumner for Plowman). And everyone was happy with the level of skill displayed by Pickett and thought he showed promise, but injuries creuled him in the end.

Silvagni, Mullet, Shaw and O'shea were all taken purely as mature big-bodied senior players to help support a young list and were never expected to be long-term players or even AFL-level players. Hell, if Silvagni was still on the list, he'd be playing as a 33 year old next year!

Philips was a perfectly servicable back-up ruck and has just been taken by * after being offered a contract by Carlton, so they see something in him also. Lobbe was also a servicable back-up ruck and was also not expected to be at the club for the long term.

Smedts was part of a trade. He was not recruited to the club, the word on here was that SOS actually asked for Lang at the time.

That's almost half the players in your list that don't actually represent examples that support your point. They're just names that it's easy to throw in to make things seem worse than they in fact are.

 

[Percy2257]

Get your 1st part. Don’t get the 2nd part.

Me too! What does the 2nd part mean?