A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[Colonial]

Average crowd down to 12,000 (dubious)
Average Sydney TV audience less 30,000
Couldn't sell GF allotment of fan tickets - has that happened before?
Yet 40,000 members. Bullshit!

Any links?

I wouldn't be talking down these numberseven if they are true.

Narrator: "they arent".

Wanderers are getting less and hoping not to be booted from Foxtel and FTA.

 

[Colonial]

O

Of course crowds will go up and down with your on field performances that’s normal but with gws being a top 4 team and averaging just 12,000 can they afford there crowds to drop of much more then they currently are when the eventual down periods come I mean you would hate to see a club go back to the bears carrah days of struggling to get 5k to games I mean 12,000 is not sustainable let alone any less !

You guys have taken over 100 years to get to 25k with multiple derbies against the biggest drawing clubs in the league

Can we take the risk that the Saints will improve?

 

[Tasmanian saint]

You obviously have forgotten their early years.

Every one expected them to struggle for the first few seasons but they have been a very good team for a few seasons now like I said at least Gold Coast has an excuse for there crowds

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Maybe they will.
GWS attract a young crowd so there is a good possibility of generational change.

Did you read my post you even admitted that nsw in general struggles to draw consistent numbers on a regular basis to any of the codes there number one code nrl rarely draws big numbers which is why I believe there may not be a huge a amount of growth in gws crowds

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Exactly. Which argument sounds better?
"We should have a Tasmanian team because GWS is a failure" or
"We should have a Tasmanian team because we can learn from GWS success"

Yeah well the Gold Coast is no example to use for setting up a club and no offence But with gws numbers if a Tasmanian club had 30,000 members and averaged 12,000 after 10 years I would absolutely say it is not sustainable and we should not have a license

 

[RedV3x]

talk of Manly relocating to CC

Manly, Cronulla defiant amid relocation talks

Club powerbrokers at both Manly and Cronulla have bristled at any suggestion of relocation.

www.smh.com.au

Relocation: The fresh start Manly need to survive

Imagine this. The Manly Warringah Sea Eagles relocate to become the Central Coast Sea Eagles. It's been dire straits for Manly in recent seasons,…

www.theroar.com.au

Relocation: The fresh start Manly need to survive

Imagine this. The Manly Warringah Sea Eagles relocate to become the Central Coast Sea Eagles. It's been dire straits for Manly in recent seasons,…

www.theroar.com.au

On the move? This is why your club is in danger of relocation

On the move? This is why your NRL club is in danger of relocation

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[RedV3x]

bears carrah days

It's the Bears at Carrara. please, a little respect.

Never has there been a better example of what not to do.
Do you want the Tasmanian side to follow the Bears path or the Giants path?

 

[Pippen94]

Nah just talk of Sharks/Tigers/Manly moving to Adelaide or Perth.
Oh and the Bears taking over the Titans.

Manly, Cronulla defiant amid relocation talks

Club powerbrokers at both Manly and Cronulla have bristled at any suggestion of relocation.

www.smh.com.au

Relocation: The fresh start Manly need to survive

Imagine this. The Manly Warringah Sea Eagles relocate to become the Central Coast Sea Eagles. It's been dire straits for Manly in recent seasons,…

www.theroar.com.au

Relocation: The fresh start Manly need to survive

Imagine this. The Manly Warringah Sea Eagles relocate to become the Central Coast Sea Eagles. It's been dire straits for Manly in recent seasons,…

www.theroar.com.au

On the move? This is why your club is in danger of relocation

On the move? This is why your NRL club is in danger of relocation

www.foxsports.com.au

roar site is for idiot fans to rant - like calls here for teams in NZ

 

[RedV3x]

Yeah well the Gold Coast is no example to use for setting up a club

The Gold Coast and GWS had the same opportunities and arguably the Gold Coast had the jump and better location with Australian Football being a lot more strongly represented up there.
The Gold Coast started well and did very well. unfortunately they put all the eggs in one basket.
GWS tried to do the same but luckily for GWS Buddy was upsurped by the Swans.

 

[RedV3x]

roar site is for idiot fans to rant

OK, You still deny there were no relocation discussions?

NRL 2019: Past and present players unite against relocation of Cronulla Sharks or Manly Sea Eagles | Sporting News Australia

'Hey Channel 9, hands off our clubs' - that’s the strong message from the two Sydney NRL sides deemed to be under the most pressure to survive a Channel 9-led push to relocate at least one club to Brisbane.

www.sportingnews.com

Manly, Cronulla defiant amid relocation talks

Club powerbrokers at both Manly and Cronulla have bristled at any suggestion of relocation.

www.smh.com.au

On the move? This is why your club is in danger of relocation

On the move? This is why your NRL club is in danger of relocation

www.foxsports.com.au

Manly to Move to Gosford????

BROOKIE FOREVER RALLY - 7PM WEDNESDAY - BROOKVALE OVAL Rally 7pm Wednesday 21st November Brookvale Oval With uncertainty surrounding a Government commitment of funding for Brookvale Oval, news surfaced today that the NRL has offered the club an 8 million dollar incentive to...

silvertails.net

 

[RedV3x]

Average crowd
Average Sydney
Yet 40,000 members

GWS 2019 attendances​

total 134942​

11 games​

Average home 12267​

Average home attendace 297128​

Preliminary Final a TV Ratings GIANT

The GIANTS’ nail-biting Preliminary Final against the Western Bulldogs was the second most-watched match in AFL history outside of a Grand Final.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

On Seven, the top 5 was rounded up with Essendon, Richmond, Melbourne and Geelong leading the averages and Richmond, Essendon, Adelaide and West Coast leading the aggregates. At the opposite end of the ladder, Gold Coast finished lowest – the only club to finish with an average metro audience under 100k – followed by St Kilda, Brisbane, Carlton and GWS on aggregate and Brisbane, GWS, Fremantle and St Kilda on Average.

Champion Data's list ratings are in and a surprise packet has leapt to second

See where your team sits in the stats gurus' AFL rankings.

7news.com.au

GIANTS Smash Membership Record

The GIANTS have today broken their all time membership record, passing 25,000 members for the second consecutive year.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

GWS Members - Sports Industry AU

On April 20, 2015 Fairfax reported that CEO David Matthews had set the club the ambitious goal of having 10,000

www.footyindustry.com

 

[Pippen94]

OK, You still deny there were no relocation discussions?

NRL 2019: Past and present players unite against relocation of Cronulla Sharks or Manly Sea Eagles | Sporting News Australia

'Hey Channel 9, hands off our clubs' - that’s the strong message from the two Sydney NRL sides deemed to be under the most pressure to survive a Channel 9-led push to relocate at least one club to Brisbane.

www.sportingnews.com

Manly, Cronulla defiant amid relocation talks

Club powerbrokers at both Manly and Cronulla have bristled at any suggestion of relocation.

www.smh.com.au

On the move? This is why your club is in danger of relocation

On the move? This is why your NRL club is in danger of relocation

www.foxsports.com.au

Manly to Move to Gosford????

BROOKIE FOREVER RALLY - 7PM WEDNESDAY - BROOKVALE OVAL Rally 7pm Wednesday 21st November Brookvale Oval With uncertainty surrounding a Government commitment of funding for Brookvale Oval, news surfaced today that the NRL has offered the club an 8 million dollar incentive to...

silvertails.net

The one mentioning Manly to CC is from 2007. CC will reject Manly due to their silver-tail image. Some local nsw knowledge there

 

[RedV3x]

number one code nrl rarely draws big numbers

Yet the Sydney Swans do. Are westies genetically any different?

 

[Pippen94]

GWS 2019 attendances​

total 134942​

11 games​

Average home 12267​

Average home attendace 297128​

Preliminary Final a TV Ratings GIANT

The GIANTS’ nail-biting Preliminary Final against the Western Bulldogs was the second most-watched match in AFL history outside of a Grand Final.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

On Seven, the top 5 was rounded up with Essendon, Richmond, Melbourne and Geelong leading the averages and Richmond, Essendon, Adelaide and West Coast leading the aggregates. At the opposite end of the ladder, Gold Coast finished lowest – the only club to finish with an average metro audience under 100k – followed by St Kilda, Brisbane, Carlton and GWS on aggregate and Brisbane, GWS, Fremantle and St Kilda on Average.

Champion Data's list ratings are in and a surprise packet has leapt to second

See where your team sits in the stats gurus' AFL rankings.

7news.com.au

GIANTS Smash Membership Record

The GIANTS have today broken their all time membership record, passing 25,000 members for the second consecutive year.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

GWS Members - Sports Industry AU

On April 20, 2015 Fairfax reported that CEO David Matthews had set the club the ambitious goal of having 10,000

www.footyindustry.com

Should give all members a free TV

 

[RedV3x]

The one mentioning Manly to CC is from 2007. CC will reject Manly due to their silver-tail image. Some local nsw knowledge there

Doesn't that just confirm that there has been a lot of discussion for a long time of relocation of the Manly Sea-Eagles?

 

[RedV3x]

if a Tasmanian club had 30,000 members and averaged 12,000 after 10 years I would absolutely say it is not sustainable and we should not have a license

Bellerive Oval	Total 265844​	games 22​	Average 12084​

York Park Oval

Total 1111925​

games 72​

Average 15443​

 

[BringBackTorps]

You're boasting about auskick numbers.

The official AFL regd. club nos. for AF in Sydney, & throughout NSW & the ACT, show very strong nos. & very strong growth- do you dispute this?
And do you dispute the Auskick club nos? And Auskick community nos.?

I have asked you these questions before, but you refuse to answer them- but I will again ask.

1. Why are you coming onto an AF site, pretending to be a supporter of AF?

2. Which Australian A League club do you support? And NRL club?

3. You continuously troll GWS & AF on BF. What are your major fears about both?

4. Do you agree with NRL expert P. Gould, who is also an expert on GR RL in particular, & GR sport in general, in Sydney's WS when he said in this quote 4 months ago? Reasons?

"GWS will become a juggernaut".






5. Why did none of the other experts on the WWOS panel challenge him on it, if they disagreed with it, as would be expected?
Ditto, no other RL experts in Australia challenged him, which would be expected if they disagreed?

6. Why do you think the North Sydney District & Manly Warringah District snr GR RL competitions have folded?
Why has jnr. club RL male contact nos. also virtually collapsed in these areas?

Ditto, for snr & jnr GR RL contact nos. in Sydney's ES & inner WS?

Why has the inner south St George district had a major decline in GR RL jnr & snr nos.?

7. In post # 1391, former Kangaroos coach C. Anderson said, about declining male contact RL numbers, "If we don't change things, rugby league will die".

Do you agree?

8. Most MSM expert soccer commentary is that the A League is likely to be offered FAR less in broadcast rights $ when the current deal expires (due to plumetting ratings, & very poor crowds).
Why are A League ratings so abysmal?

It is likely to become a semi-professional competition- do you agree?

 

[Pippen94]

1. Why are you coming onto an AF site, pretending to be a supporter of AF?

I am not

2. Which Australian A League club do you support? And NRL club?

I can honestly say I don't barrack for any particular a league or NRL teams.

3. You continuously troll GWS & AF on BF. What are your major fears about both?

I fear for journalistic standards & the spread of misinformation. As local I can see first hand that the growth of game is sheer propaganda. Hence 40,000 memberships yet club has to lie about its meager crowds.

4. Do you agree with NRL expert P. Gould, who is also an expert on GR RL in particular, & GR sport in general, in Sydney's WS when he said in this quote 4 months ago? Reasons?

"GWS will become a juggernaut".

No. Phil has taken too many blows to head


5. Why did none of the other experts on the WWOS panel challenge him on it, if they disagreed with it, as would be expected?
Ditto, no other RL experts in Australia challenged him, which would be expected if they disagreed?

They want funding from NRL to combat AF which they will spend on wrestling classes & coach whispers

6. Why do you think the North Sydney District & Manly Warringah District snr GR RL competitions have folded?
Why has jnr. club RL male contact nos. also virtually collapsed in these areas?

Ditto, for snr & jnr GR RL contact nos. in Sydney's ES & inner WS?

I can't verify what you say, however demographics of areas change over time. These areas have oldest population & lowest growth.

Why has the inner south St George district had a major decline in GR RL jnr & snr nos.?

Demographic change - large Asian population.

7. In post # 1391, former Kangaroos coach C. Anderson said, about declining male contact RL numbers, "If we don't change things, rugby league will die".

Do you agree?

Yes, all contact sports will eventually die out

8. Most MSM expert soccer commentary is that the A League is likely to be offered FAR less in broadcast rights $ when the current deal expires (due to plumetting ratings, & very poor crowds).

It is likely to become a semi-professional competition- do you agree?

No, soccer is biggest sport in world. Transfer fees for one quality player exceeds salary for entire afl teams. Still lots of money & potential investors

 

[Colonial]

roar site is for idiot fans to rant - like calls here for teams in NZ

We are going well enough for a wanderer fan to create an account specifically to bag the sport in Sydney.

 

[RedV3x]

I am not.

So why don't you enlighten us on your vision of Australian Football. What do you like most about Australian Football?

As local I can see first hand that the growth of game

Well, tell us about a few of the games that you attended.

however demographics of areas change over time. - large Asian population.

Are you saying that rl has declined and AFL has increased in the surtherland region because of Asian immigration?

all contact sports will eventually die out

Yet, the only sport posting continuous significant gains is Australian football.

soccer is

A very minor sport in Australia that is in all likelihood to be overtaken by AFLW.

 

[Colonial]

So why don't you enlighten us on your vision of Australian Football. What do you like most about Australian Football?



Well, tell us about a few of the games that you attended.



Are you saying that rl has declined and AFL has increased in the surtherland region because of Asian immigration?



Yet, the only sport posting continuous significant gains is Australian football.



A very minor sport in Australia that is in all likelihood to be overtaken by AFLW.

Good luck with that.
Says he is a Swans fan and yet every post is bagging the Giants and AFL in Sydney. Never once talking about the Swans.

He is a wanderers fan who is terrified the Giants are gaining interest in the West and the sport is growing.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

1. The current formal Tas. Bid is NOT attacking GWS or GC. On the contrary, it can use their creation- & GR success- to boost its own chances of being the 19th team c.2025.

Before GWS started in 2012, GR AF jnr club nos. in Sydney's WS were very small. From 2012, however, the no. of jnr teams has had strong growth, trebling to almost c. jnr club180 teams in WS alone.

Not included in the c. 180 teams are Club Auskick kids (since Club jnr AF competition games don't start until U 9's. Auskick is for kids 5 y.o- 8 y.o.)
There would be approx. 4,000+ kids in in Club Auskick in Sydney.
With approx. 13,000 additional kids in jnr club teams, the total in metro. Sydney would be c. 20,000 kids.

The total no. of club jnr AF teams in all metro Sydney has risen from 277 in 2012 to 665 jnr teams in 2019 (again, these nos. don't include kids 5 y.o- 8 y.o.). This represents a huge boost for AF in Sydney.

Fixtures & Results - AFL Sydney Juniors

Please select your region from the options below. From here you can select your competition from the drop-down box. Wet Weather Check – Ground Closures Sydney Harbour Western Sydney Independent Schools

aflsj.com.au

(then click on "Western Sydney" & "Sydney Harbour" for the list of all jnr teams, in all age groups, in metro Sydney since 2012. One can tab down from 2020, to go to 2012 lists of teams)


In this thread, there are over 20 MSM acknowledgements from current & former RU, RL & soccer officials & players about the recent strong AF growth in Sydney since GWS started- some say it poses a direct threat to RU & RL.

The ACT has also had strong growth since 2012, & would probably have a record no. of regd. jnr club players now (after declining significantly from 1982, when the Raiders entered the NRL). GR AF nos. now surpass GR RL regd. nos. in the ACT.

Players drafted into the AFL from the ACT & Sthn. NSW had declined significantly from the late 1990's to c. 2011. From 2012, with the creation of GWS & its Academies in WS, ACT & Sthn. NSW, drafted player nos. have risen significantly.

There are now a record approx. 100 players in the AFL who came originally from NSW, ACT & Qld. (& a few from the NT).

It is incontrovertible that it is the creation of an AFL club GWS, & the Academies, that has directly led to this strong growth.
The logical corollary also applies. By not having its own AFL team, an elite AFL club that locals can aspire to, together with the elite pathways & expertise, Tasmanian AF will be severely disadvantaged. The absence, therefore, is directly responsible for Tas. GR male club nos. & drafted players being in decline.



2. In the AFL announcement of S. Graham's promotion from AFLNSW/ACT, to become the National Game Development Manager, it reports the record growth of AF in NSW & ACT (in adult males, females & jnrs.).
S. Graham said " I will still have oversight of the growth of the game in this (NSW/ACT) market, and I am confident...(we will- my words) continue the momentum we have built".

It also states that NSW is 2nd only to Victoria in female regd. participant nos. This is a great achievement for AF in NSW where, in the last decade, Qld. was 2nd to Vic. in regd. female participant nos.

AF in NSW/ACT, assuming this strong growth continues, can be expected to become a powerhouse in AF from 2030- & will probably start to challenge challenge WA & SA for drafted players into the AFL.
(By comparison, the SANFL jnr. comps. in

Bellerive Oval	Total 265844​	games 22​	Average 12084​

York Park Oval

Total 1111925​

games 72​

Average 15443​

Would love to know the point you’re trying to make comparing gws home crowds to fifo crowds in Tasmania your comparing a locally based club that has an area of over 2 million people to draw from to fifo teams that have no connection whatsoever to Tasmania a area of 500,000 but still Tasmania both grounds combined average over 14,650 a game almost 3,000 more a game then gws for fifo clubs I’m not being stupid when I say a local Tasmanian team would double gws home crowds and go close to doubling there amount of members if you want to compare apples to apples let’s compare the numbers from when north Melbourne played home games in Sydney and the Gold Coast to the Hobart numbers ? I think you know it won’t be pretty

 

[abcde12345]

I'm genuinely curious what the people on here who constantly call out GWS as a failure expect from them?

We are constantly reminded by Pippen (apparently the only man who has been to West Sydney on this site) of how little anyone there cares. And yet despite this, heartland soccer and rugby league teams from Western Sydney only average 3000 more people to a game each than the Giant's games in Sydney do. This is despite the fact that the rectangular stadium in Parramatta is much more accessible than Giants Stadium is, is brand new and has a lot more going on in its general vicinity.

This is despite the fact that I can jump on and get tickets to the Wanderers game tomorrow for $15 each adult prices. In fact, there are only 2 bays i can purchase tickets from that cost over $40. That contrasts pretty heavily with the Giants ticket pricing (something I've been pretty vocally against FWIW - AFL should be subsidising ticket costs as a form of distribution IMO rather than just dumping money on the club).

So what would be a success story for the Giants? Should they be drawing more than 100 year old rugby league clubs are despite only existing for a decade in what is considered extremely hostile territory. Should they be outdrawing an a-league club in the strongest soccer area in the country and possibly the weakest AF area, with an older and more inaccessible stadium? Keep in mind, the league clubs have 8 other teams they can draw opposition supporters from in Sydney, as well as 1 from Newcastle, and the Wanderers have 3 teams within a 2 hour drive (not that the Jets or Mariners will be drawing all that much away support). Giants only have the Swans as a local derby.

You'd have to be bonkers to be disappointed with the club's figures at this point in their life.

Also the recent commentary about membership is hilarious. Wanna know the three teams that have more than double the member to average attendee count? Hawthorn, North and GWS. Guess what they have in common. They all have a "second home". It's almost like the clubs are going to sell attractive membership packs to both markets to boost their numbers.

Take out 5k ACT members from GWS and your ratio is very similar to the Swans. (1.99 members per attendee for the Swans, 2.02 members per attendee for the Giants).

 

[Colonial]

I'm genuinely curious what the people on here who constantly call out GWS as a failure expect from them?

We are constantly reminded by Pippen (apparently the only man who has been to West Sydney on this site) of how little anyone there cares. And yet despite this, heartland soccer and rugby league teams from Western Sydney only average 3000 more people to a game each than the Giant's games in Sydney do. This is despite the fact that the rectangular stadium in Parramatta is much more accessible than Giants Stadium is, is brand new and has a lot more going on in its general vicinity.

This is despite the fact that I can jump on and get tickets to the Wanderers game tomorrow for $15 each adult prices. In fact, there are only 2 bays i can purchase tickets from that cost over $40. That contrasts pretty heavily with the Giants ticket pricing (something I've been pretty vocally against FWIW - AFL should be subsidising ticket costs as a form of distribution IMO rather than just dumping money on the club).

So what would be a success story for the Giants? Should they be drawing more than 100 year old rugby league clubs are despite only existing for a decade in what is considered extremely hostile territory. Should they be outdrawing an a-league club in the strongest soccer area in the country and possibly the weakest AF area, with an older and more inaccessible stadium? Keep in mind, the league clubs have 8 other teams they can draw opposition supporters from in Sydney, as well as 1 from Newcastle, and the Wanderers have 3 teams within a 2 hour drive (not that the Jets or Mariners will be drawing all that much away support). Giants only have the Swans as a local derby.

You'd have to be bonkers to be disappointed with the club's figures at this point in their life.

Also the recent commentary about membership is hilarious. Wanna know the three teams that have more than double the member to average attendee count? Hawthorn, North and GWS. Guess what they have in common. They all have a "second home". It's almost like the clubs are going to sell attractive membership packs to both markets to boost their numbers.

Take out 5k ACT members from GWS and your ratio is very similar to the Swans. (1.99 members per attendee for the Swans, 2.02 members per attendee for the Giants).

Why did you have to go and bring commonsense and logic into this discussion.

 

[Colonial]

Would love to know the point you’re trying to make comparing gws home crowds to fifo crowds in Tasmania your comparing a locally based club that has an area of over 2 million people to draw from to fifo teams that have no connection whatsoever to Tasmania a area of 500,000 but still Tasmania both grounds combined average over 14,650 a game almost 3,000 more a game then gws for fifo clubs I’m not being stupid when I say a local Tasmanian team would double gws home crowds and go close to doubling there amount of members if you want to compare apples to apples let’s compare the numbers from when north Melbourne played home games in Sydney and the Gold Coast to the Hobart numbers ? I think you know it won’t be pretty

You bring up apples for apple's yet talk about a footy state vs a frontier state.

Can't compare either.

Oh and North avged just under 12k in Sydney from what I read and that was a 100 year old club that was winning flags.

So we are doing well in our 8th year.