Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) and the AFL

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Altum Volantes said:
Pretty firmly established as a risk of playing contact sports - probably just needs to be a focus on education around the risks, symptoms and proper concussion management throughout their careers.

Pop a disclaimer line in the contract and you go in with your eyes open if you choose to play the game for a living.

Rugby will be even worse.
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Andyy said:
Personally I see this as an occupational hazzard.

AFL players are paid on average $290,000/year or thereabouts, which is almost 4x the average Australian wage. If you can milk a 10+ year career then that's basically your life's earnings done by your mid 30's at the latest.

There will be sad circumstances (such as Paddy McCartin) who should give it away ASAP and do something else before it's too late.


If the AFL is going to be made accountable for ongoing care/compensation due to CTE they should consider a clause with players along the lines of 'If you are concussed 3 times in your career then your ongoing employment at AFL level is at your own risk' and recommend otherwise that players retire for their own safety. Elsewise we honour a player's dignity of risk.
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greatwhiteshark said:
i have never understood why you should not have to sign a waiver to play contact sports. contact sports are contact sports and sometimes accidents happen where you can get hurt. It is your decision and risk to play said sport and you should assume all risk.
Why is it that it is always someone else's fault these days?
The AFL really cannot make it any safer other than making it non contact, you will never ever remove the split second bad decisions players make every now and again like Marley Williams did, but again that is the risk you take that it can happen.
It's all good and well to say we don't want people to suffer after their career is over because obviously we don't, but the simple solution then is not to play and put yourself in any risk at all. Go be a storeman or an accountant and don't play Footy. But if you wish to play footy it is your risk to do so and no one but yourself should be liable for what may or may not happen to you in the future.
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None of you have any clue what you are talking about. As an employer, the AFL has a duty of care towards its employees (players) which involve taking reasonable steps to prevent harm. The AFL can not get around its obligations through waivers in employment contracts.
 

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Capriati said:
None of you have any clue what you are talking about. As an employer, the AFL has a duty of care towards its employees (players) which involve taking reasonable steps to prevent harm. The AFL can not get around its obligations through waivers in employment contracts.
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And they do everything they can to make it safer knowing it is a contact sport and that their players can get hurt. It is not the AFL's fault if a player gets hurt.
They chose to play the sport.
 
Rugby are strong on high tackles these days. Their focus is that you have to attempt to tackle (i.e. use your arms, can't just shoulder charge) and the intent/impact of getting a player high. If you clothesline someone because they slipped there is some leeway shown but the onus is still on the tackler not to tackle high. But they don't hand out penalties every time a forward puts his head down and drives into an opponents knee. Because that is stupid and the whistle would be blown 200 times a game.

The NFL is litigation disaster waiting to happen. Their tackling techniques make Joel Selwood look like protecting his head and neck is his first priority. They lead with their head and clash helmets on a regular basis. Might have a low frequency of cracked skulls, but no helmet is going to prevent your brain from being shaken around inside your scone.

The AFL have a foot in each camp. 'Head is sacrosanct' applies to everyone - except the owner of the head. Players lead with their head, duck to get high tackles (not so much a concussion risk being grabbed around the neck) and get frees for it. A fist or an elbow or a knee to the head is still punished as it always has been. A bump to the head may be, but depends if you meant to hit the head or not and how Michael Christian is feeling that day. Ryan Burton knocked out Shaun Higgins with a bump and was free to play (head clash). Daniel Venables was KO'd last year (still not right) by an accidental hip to the head in a marking contest. How do you prevent that? Freak contact injuries will occur in contact sports.
 
Power Raid said:
In the old days, every mark was earned with a punch to the side of the head

He was also pretty short for a ruckman, so putting his head over the ball wouldn't have been unusual for the mobile man
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He was 191cm and I that wasn't short for a ruckman in his era. You are right in that he would have copped plenty of punches to the head.
 
greatwhiteshark said:
Concussion can occur in many different ways, obviously the head high bump and hitting the ground being the biggest culprits. But my point was is the head sacrosanct or not? Head high tackling says it is not.
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The head is sacrosanct in regards to blows to the head that can cause concussion.

"I can assure you, the bump is alive and well, but the head is sacrosanct," Demetriou said yesterday.
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That's a quote from 2008 referring to bumps to the head.

There has been no crackdown on high tackles that cause concussion because it really isn't a thing.

You see a contradiction here because you are conflating two things that aren't related.
 
Concussions aren't really the problem. We could make strict rules about returning to play after concussions and end up retiring players after multiple concussions. Players are already being more cautious and are starting to filter themselves out by listening to symptoms rather than covering them up in machismo and beer.

It's the sub concussive head knocks that may or may not play a role that are the real danger to AFL.

Guys are getting decent hits to the head in marking contests, tackles and collisions all the time. Almost anything major that a player doesn't jump up right away from now gets a concussion test to check for what we think are the immediate problems but there's no way to measure the cumulative impact.

I think the AFL should provide health care and a limited disability fund to provide for all former players, but shouldn't be held fully responsible unless they knew more than they let on and covered it up.
 
Dazzler10 said:
Bring on bubble-ball, I say

View attachment 829940
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Don't laugh but I did this as part of a group for a xmas party event, set up to be full sprinting and colliding with one another trying to kick a soccer ball, one bloke did end up with a concussion because he ended up being sent end over and smashing his head into the turf (as you can even see in that image the top of your head isn't protected, keeping balance being hit hard isn't easy in these even bracing). You sign a waiver when doing this in the case of injury, the instructor said broken ankles or torn ligaments in ankles, legs are not unheard of.
 
Eternal Schism said:
Don't laugh but I did this as part of a group for a xmas party event, set up to be full sprinting and colliding with one another trying to kick a soccer ball, one bloke did end up with a concussion because he ended up being sent end over and smashing his head into the turf (as you can even see in that image the top of your head isn't protected, keeping balance being hit hard isn't easy in these even bracing). You sign a waiver when doing this in the case of injury, the instructor said broken ankles or torn ligaments in ankles, legs are not unheard of.
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:laughing:
 
master bate said:
Concussions aren't really the problem. We could make strict rules about returning to play after concussions and end up retiring players after multiple concussions. Players are already being more cautious and are starting to filter themselves out by listening to symptoms rather than covering them up in machismo and beer.

It's the sub concussive head knocks that may or may not play a role that are the real danger to AFL.

Guys are getting decent hits to the head in marking contests, tackles and collisions all the time. Almost anything major that a player doesn't jump up right away from now gets a concussion test to check for what we think are the immediate problems but there's no way to measure the cumulative impact.

I think the AFL should provide health care and a limited disability fund to provide for all former players, but shouldn't be held fully responsible unless they knew more than they let on and covered it up.
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Correct. It’s why I struggle to see how someone like Joel Selwood isn’t going to have serious issues post footy. Constantly copping knocks to his head, constantly getting his head taped. Not good at all.

Yet all they talk about is what a warrior he is.
 
HairyO said:
Neither is AFL, yet here we are.

Does CTE, or CTE type symptoms/damage exist in people who havent been battered repeatedly.

Ive never had a head knock. Could I get it or is it exclusive to head knocks and simply doesnt exist otherwise ?
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I don’t know the answer to your second question, as to whether you can get it, but I’m pretty sure that the pattern of damage that is called CTE has only so far been exposed in people that did have a head knock injury. And also that the particulars of the brain injury don’t match brain damage achieved by other issues (drug or alcohol use). I’m no expert but I did a bit of reading on the topic after first reading about CTE in contact sports a decade or so ago.

Having said that, even in two decades the science is still new so new info may well come to light.
 

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Loose ground ball play Is such a s**t spectacle in afl today it’s really not worth the risk to these guys health long term.

is there rule change or interpretation which could minimise both? Not sure what it could be but it could be more effective than sanctions or protective gear

Something like the Gaelic where they flick it up with feet or something. Maybe that’s too much a change
 
essaynode said:
Soccer already saying you shouldn't train for headers.
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In England they have banned heading the ball for children under 12.

Barrybran said:
Joel Selwood is going to have a shitty time when he's in his 70's
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I read life expectancy is 51!! I wonder how many suicided. It would slowly destroy you and leads to dementia. And no one can tell you for sure as only revealed upon dying. That is a pretty shitty way to live.

Aishole said:
I just don’t get how this is a shock to anyone. Does anyone pay attention to the NFL.
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The NFL is up for an expected billion dollar payout with over 100 confirmed cases. This has been ongoing for years and got traction when a clutch of retired players started suiciding. Links were made.
 
Nonsense schmonsense. The leftist snowflake would have you believe anything these days. Man was fine
 
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