Moved Thread Bailey Smith vs Sam Walsh

[Chunky09]

Walsh’s first year was the greatest Of all time. Why bloody hell not? More disposals in a debut season since that star was recorded in 1999. He has won every individual accolade he could possibly do up until today as a 19 year old. He’s hands down the best debutant in an AFL season period. Why the fu** can’t he turn out be the best afl footballer of all time. It’s not out of the question.

In a midfield that contains Cripps, two bags of sand and a solitary cheetoh

 

[GordonBlue]

Bloody hell you lot are goldfish.

 

[Cudi]

I think Walsh's ceiling is a Trent Cotchin, who is a Brownlow medalist and premiership captain.

I don't think he has enough tricks to be the very best midfielder in the game but he's got more than enough to be a champion of his club and a consistent top 10-12 player in his prime.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Tarryn Thomas has entered the chat

Tarryn Thomas has left the chat.

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

In a midfield that contains Cripps, two bags of sand and a solitary cheetoh

Are you saying that if he’s played for GC or Adelaide or someone else he wouldn’t have been as dominant. Why’s he only averaging 15 touches a game in 2020 then? Got a theory.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

The idea of putting a ceiling on a 2nd year player who has shown this much is kinda ridiculous.

Absolutely no one knows how he is going to develop, if he can improve his kicking (which really isn't that bad) and put on a little more size he can be a truly dominant mid. That may or may not happen, but capping him at some random level is dumb.

 

[Milanista28]

Why are people putting ceilings on a 19 year old? He's clearly a jet and has plenty left to develop.

 

[MowShow]

Walsh will be a gun for many years to come but whenever I watch Smith he just has the look/style of play of someone who is going to absolutely dominate in a couple of years (if he's not already) to the level that very few are capable of (think current Danger/Dusty etc).

Would take Smith because he has top 3-5 player in the comp upside IMO whereas I see Walsh as more of a perennial top 10-20 player.

That's not "putting a ceiling" on either, or a shot at Walsh. Both have plenty of time to develop/improve their game. Just a personal opinion/assessment of where they are both at and what they have both shown early on in their careers.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I'd take Smith over Walsh in a heartbeat. Much more well-rounded player.

I am a big fan of Smudger, but can you please back up this statement with facts.

Last year all you Tiggy fans were bragging on how better Sydney Stack was than Walsh lol

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Walsh will be a gun for many years to come but whenever I watch Smith he just has the look/style of play of someone who is going to absolutely dominate in a couple of years (if he's not already) to the level that very few are capable of (think current Danger/Dusty etc).

Would take Smith because he has top 3-5 player in the comp upside IMO whereas I see Walsh as more of a perennial top 10-20 player.

That's not "putting a ceiling" on either, or a shot at Walsh. Both have plenty of time to develop/improve their game. Just a personal opinion/assessment of where they are both at and what they have bosh shown early on in their careers.

Probably fair enough, at least you put thought and constructive critique in your post, unlike many here.

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

Why are people putting ceilings on a 19 year old? He's clearly a jet and has plenty left to develop.

Totally agree with you. There’s no reason he can’t create a new ceiling for every other new player to be adjudged.

 

[Grrr]

I am a big fan of Smudger, but can you please back up this statement with facts.

Last year all you Tiggy fans were bragging on how better Sydney Stack was than Walsh lol

I would put my house on Stack still being a better player. That's not a knock on Walsh who will be a gun still, just rate Stack as the best first year player I have seen at Richmond since Richo.

 

[citizen-erased]

I think Walsh's ceiling is a Trent Cotchin, who is a Brownlow medalist and premiership captain.

I don't think he has enough tricks to be the very best midfielder in the game but he's got more than enough to be a champion of his club and a consistent top 10-12 player in his prime.

Im not sure Smith does either

No slight, best mid in the game is quite a lofty standard to reach.....and there's Rowell looking ominously positioned to take it

Worthy top 5 picks both of them though.

 

[Gethelred]

Sam Walsh's ceiling is Macrae, who Bailey Smith has already gone past.

I rather think anyone who thinks they can definitively state anyone's potential has rocks in their head.

 

[Grrr]

I rather think anyone who thinks they can definitively state anyone's potential has rocks in their head.

You can rate potential due to how many AFL attributes they possess. But the grey are of application/injury/team success etc makes it harder.

 

[Gethelred]

You can rate potential due to how many AFL attributes they possess. But the grey are of application/injury/team success etc makes it harder.

I don't disagree. My objection stems from the sheer number of posts that position any of the players mentioned as having a ceiling.

All of them are already guns in the making if not guns outright, barely 2 years in. Who the **** knows where they'll be in 3, 4 years time?

Imagine what people would have said of Junior's ceiling three games into his second season.

 

[BEaston]

I rather think anyone who thinks they can definitively state anyone's potential has rocks in their head.

Why? I've seen enough of his qualities to make a statement on it. Nobody can see the future with certainty and I'm not claiming to, but I'm entitled to make a prediction.
If you think that makes me stupid (regardless of the prediction itself - which you don't seem worried about) then good on ya.

 

[Gethelred]

Why? I've seen enough of his qualities to make a statement on it. Nobody can see the future with certainty and I'm not claiming to, but I'm entitled to make a prediction.
If you think that makes me stupid (regardless of the prediction itself - which you don't seem worried about) then good on ya.

Sigh.

You're entitled to an opinion, just as I am to call your opinion stupid.

Your opinion is stupid.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I think Walsh's ceiling is a Trent Cotchin, who is a Brownlow medalist and premiership captain.

I don't think he has enough tricks to be the very best midfielder in the game but he's got more than enough to be a champion of his club and a consistent top 10-12 player in his prime.

Yep, it'll be Cotchin vs Dangerfield again. Both absolute guns, both Brownlow medallists, Cotchin clearly the better leader, but Dangerfield the more impactful player. You'd be ecstatic with both

 

[BEaston]

Sigh.

You're entitled to an opinion, just as I am to call your opinion stupid.

Your opinion is stupid.

You didn't call my actual opinion (macrae = ceiling) stupid though, you said anyone talking about a player's potential is stupid....

But yeah of course you're welcome to say that, that's why I said: "If you think that makes me stupid (regardless of the prediction itself - which you don't seem worried about) then good on ya." (infer what you like from that)

So yep, still, good on ya.

I disagree that speaking about a player's potential is stupid. For one we're on a footy forum, so I think it's for obvious reasons why I would disagree with that.

If you want to get into my actual opinion regarding walsh and macrae, happy to discuss also.

 

[GroggSquad]

Yep, it'll be Cotchin vs Dangerfield again. Both absolute guns, both Brownlow medallists, Cotchin clearly the better leader, but Dangerfield the more impactful player. You'd be ecstatic with both

I love Cotchin, but take team achievements out of the conversation and that is a pretty silly comparison.

There is only 1 season in Cotchin's career that you could say was "elite" for a midfielder - 2012.

Whereas Dangerfield has been elite every year since 2012.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I love Cotchin, but take team achievements out of the conversation and that is a pretty silly comparison.

There is only 1 season in Cotchin's career that you could say was "elite" for a midfielder - 2012.

Whereas Dangerfield has been elite every year since 2012.

Weird seeing a Richmond fan actually talking down one of their players

I felt Cotchin's 2013-2016 had him maintaining elite status. He's obviously no longer in the top tier, but he's still a very good midfielder. Walsh's ceiling as a player, in my opinion, would be Cotchin's level, but he can probably maintain it for longer.

 

[Gethelred]

You didn't call my actual opinion (macrae = ceiling) stupid though, you said anyone talking about a player's potential is stupid....

But yeah of course your welcome to say that, that's why I said: "If you think that makes me stupid (regardless of the prediction itself - which you don't seem worried about) then good on ya." (infer what you like from that)

So yep, still, good on ya.

I disagree that speaking about a player's potential is stupid. For one we're on a footy forum, so I think it's for obvious reasons why I would disagree with that.

If you want to get into my actual opinion regarding walsh and macrae, happy to discuss also.

I think Smith is a hell of a player already, with a rubbish haircut. I think Walsh had a landmark first season, isn't as bad with the ball as is widely thought, and will go on to be a club captain.

I would've selected Rankine with pick 1. I don't think, on exposed evidence, that Smith is clearly better; I would have taken Smith ahead of Walsh.

I would repeat; the idea that any of us can definitively know the peak of a player's potential in any way except hindsight is stupid.

 

[BEaston]

I think Smith is a hell of a player already, with a rubbish haircut. I think Walsh had a landmark first season, isn't as bad with the ball as is widely thought, and will go on to be a club captain.

I would've selected Rankine with pick 1. I don't think, on exposed evidence, that Smith is clearly better; I would have taken Smith ahead of Walsh.

I would repeat; the idea that any of us can definitively know the peak of a player's potential in any way except hindsight is stupid.

OK great. I agree with your assessment of Walsh.

People have definitely said they know the peak of a players potential in so much as a person's opinion of a future event can be definitive (ie not at all). Think you might have adjust your expectations and understand that people making predictive statements on a forum are just that. Nobody knows the future (or has claimed to in this thread).

Funny how the less controversial part of my post was more triggering.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

It's a good discussion in terms of who is a better player.

But prior to last year we were the weakest team in the league at running & covering the ground. We needed Walsh. Adding him and Gibbons (and to an extent getting rid of Gibbs a year earlier) actually turned it into a bit of a strength of ours now.

Not that we couldn't use Smith too.