Moved Thread Bailey Smith vs Sam Walsh

[Grrr]

I don't disagree. My objection stems from the sheer number of posts that position any of the players mentioned as having a ceiling.

All of them are already guns in the making if not guns outright, barely 2 years in. Who the fu** knows where they'll be in 3, 4 years time?

Imagine what people would have said of Junior's ceiling three games into his second season.

Or G Ablett senior.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I think Smith is a hell of a player already, with a rubbish haircut.

How dare you.

 

[Gethelred]

OK great. I agree with your assessment of Walsh.

People have definitely said they know the peak of a players potential in so much as a person's opinion of a future event can be definitive (ie not at all). Think you might have adjust your expectations and understand that people making predictive statements on a forum are just that. Nobody knows the future (or has claimed to in this thread).

Funny how the less controversial part of my post was more triggering.

You copped the brunt of my irritation with the rest of the thread. More than just you have referred to a player's 'ceiling', and the post was directed at the thread at large as much as it was at you.

 

[PP34]

I'm still taking Walsh at this stage. I've seen a few love to make the argument that Walsh doesn't have any standout qualities. Last time I checked he is an elite ball winner. How is that not a standout quality? Getting the ball is one of the most important things in the game. Walsh has potential to be a consistent 30+ disposal player on a weekly basis with his aerobic capacity, his footy IQ and his body will eventually fill out a bit. Tom Mitchell has become one of the best players in the game with his elite ability to get to heaps of contests, get involved in possession chains multiple times and find the footy heaps of times.

Smith has started this season stronger than Walsh but it's been three games. He does seem to look like one of those strong bull type mids that may eventually hit the scoreboard. But a lot on here are assuming he'll become that and seemingly assuming Sam Walsh isn't going to improve as a player.

 

[JustaBattler]

Walsh wasn't picked by Carlton because he would be the best player in the competition - he was picked to be a player much like Selwood has been for Geelong.

He is future captain material. His kicking has gone backwards to a degree simply because he is now (quite obviously) being given close attention by opposition coaches. Watch his stats improve incrementally and surely as he adjusts his game. Watch him spend more and more time on ball as he develops some size and muscle. No worries as to the 'just Cripps' in the midfield either - Carlton has a couple of big lads on the sidelines who will be joining Cripps and Walsh on ball in due course - but that is another story for another time.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

I think you'd have to be on drugs to take Walsh ahead of Baz.

Baz has the complete game outside of contested marking.

He has the ability to size up the right options while dancing around in stoppages (broke someones ankles at GWS) just about every time. Having a high d/e playing mostly inside has been rare outside of guys like Pendlebury. Right now he's an inside mid but he can play Wing, HF or HB if needed.

 

[AjsGuns]

Baz, but I'm obviously biased. Has that explosive pace and is an elite ball user; exactly what we need in our midfield tbh, since Bont, Macrae & Dunks are all slow.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Walsh’s first year was the greatest Of all time. Why bloody hell not? More disposals in a debut season since that star was recorded in 1999. He has won every individual accolade he could possibly do up until today as a 19 year old. He’s hands down the best debutant in an AFL season period. Why the fu** can’t he turn out be the best afl footballer of all time. It’s not out of the question.

Greatest of all time? I hope that's a joke - I could name countless examples of better first seasons but I'll pick just one famous example to emphasise the ridiculousness of your claim.

John Coleman kicked 100 goals in his first year, including 12 on debut and 6 in the winning GF. But yeah, Walsh is the greatest of all time.

Even the disposal stat is misleading. Whilst technically correct, Toby Greene for example had 15 less disposals in his first year, but played 3 less games, spent more time forward and debuted at a time with fewer disposals in general. But yeah, those 3 extra 5 disposal games really puts Walsh in rarefied air.

 

[Superstar swan]

Bailey smith is by far the better player. Absolute gun

 

[Sentinel]

At this stage, on exposed form, I don't think Carlton would be unhappy if they'd selected any of Walsh, Smith or Rozee with that first pick - it has so far shown to be an exceptional draft. There are a number of players who could join that group too, particularly the King brothers and Rankine, with a number of names like Lukosius and Thomas not far behind.

Loving having Smith at the Dogs though, as a completely biased observer he's the better player and is great fun to watch.

 

[Superstar swan]

You should thank the fathers of the sons you picked up though. Hawkins and the abletts as well as 2 first rounders in Bartell and Kelly.

Plus Scarlett

 

[Ash1337]

Smith reminds me of Adam Cooney as a player. Walsh reminds me of Josh Kennedy of the swans. 1 is the dynamic break away player. The other is the midfield rock to lead a team. Both will be very good but I think Smith will have the more highlighted career.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Plus Scarlett

John Scarlett also played a few games for South Melbourne I believe

 

[Superstar swan]

Walsh to me is going to be a very good player, but Imo he lacks the traits to really be a dominant mid. He will pick up 4 best and fairways and an AA jacket or two which is no small feat but I don’t think he will reach top 3 player status. Just not dangerous

 

[Doggy Dan]

Smith reminds me of Adam Cooney as a player. Walsh reminds me of Josh Kennedy of the swans. 1 is the dynamic break away player. The other is the midfield rock to lead a team. Both will be very good but I think Smith will have the more highlighted career.

Cooney could have been the best in the league if he was committed. Baz has Cooney playing attributes but the two are chalk and cheese when it comes to professionalism and application.

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

Greatest of all time? I hope that's a joke - I could name countless examples of better first seasons but I'll pick just one famous example to emphasise the ridiculousness of your claim.

John Coleman kicked 100 goals in his first year, including 12 on debut and 6 in the winning GF. But yeah, Walsh is the greatest of all time.

Even the disposal stat is misleading. Whilst technically correct, Toby Greene for example had 15 less disposals in his first year, but played 3 less games, spent more time forward and debuted at a time with fewer disposals in general. But yeah, those 3 extra 5 disposal games really puts Walsh in rarefied air.

He was also 20 and in a different time. Walsh is still 19 today.

 

[Oakleigh Roo]

He was also 20 and in a different time. Walsh is still 19 today.

And Walsh turns 20 next week. Your argument is so bad.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Bailey Smith just sh1ts me that he has a mullet and tries to present that he is a roughnut... He is a kid from Xavier College, give it a rest mate and get a haircut.

You obviously didn't know he was initially growing it for a charity organization otherwise you wouldn't have made an idiotic comment because the question was about him and one of your teams players

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

And Walsh turns 20 next week. Your argument is so bad.

In his second year. Very different eras. I’m talking about the AFL one. Do you all have the memories of gold fish or is it just kane Cornes-esque trolling for attention.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Offering 3 + 6 just proves how much everyone rated Walsh that season. Was, is and always will be the correct decision. Rozee and Smith wouldn’t have been considered by any club at 1.

Shocking take.

No they were not considered for the number one pick, but there are a few taken at one that has been proven better players eventually that went later, I'm sure you know.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Sam Walsh’s ceiling is Judd/Buckley. He played like macrae in his debut year.

Wow... Just LOL

 

[La Dispute]

Macrae is not soft like some think. He goes in hard

I didn't say he was - the implication was that Walsh is harder, which I is one of his defining characteristics.

Weird thing to go back and pick out.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

I rather think anyone who thinks they can definitively state anyone's potential has rocks in their head.

It's called people's opinions, and if we couldn't do that then big footy would close down

 

[Oakleigh Roo]

In his second year. Very different eras. I’m talking about the AFL one. Do you all have the memories of gold fish or is it just kane Cornes-esque trolling for attention.

Explain to me how I’m trolling? You’re the one saying Walsh is the next Judd and future greatest player of all time! Your argument is absolutely laughable.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

I think Smith is a hell of a player already, with a rubbish haircut. I think Walsh had a landmark first season, isn't as bad with the ball as is widely thought, and will go on to be a club captain.

I would've selected Rankine with pick 1. I don't think, on exposed evidence, that Smith is clearly better; I would have taken Smith ahead of Walsh.

I would repeat; the idea that any of us can definitively know the peak of a player's potential in any way except hindsight is stupid.

What part of people saying in my option one has a better ceiling than another is stupid. You seem lost in reality.