2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[Mutineer]

From what i've read they have a lot of similarities in terms of height/weight/speed. Couldn't tell you anything concrete in terms of comparative skillset.

I wouldn't have an issue with having multiple guys with that body type in the Midfield rotation.

O'Connor is quicker than Hately but Hately when drafted had the better endurance of the pair, IMO neither will ever be "WOW" type midfielders but good solid midfielders a rung below the top boys. O'Connor the better defensively, Hately the better offensively, both lack a bit of consistency by foot but that goes with the roles they play.

 

[Betts are off]

O'Connor is quicker than Hately but Hately when drafted had the better endurance of the pair, IMO neither will ever be "WOW" type midfielders but good solid midfielders a rung below the top boys. O'Connor the better defensively, Hately the better offensively, both lack a bit of consistency by foot but that goes with the roles they play.

Both have pretty decent hands from memory too. Clean above their head and below the knees.

 

[Betts are off]

Freo into Witherden pretty heavy along with Charlie Constable and Noah Balta too.

Jees Freo, leave some for the rest of us!

 

[Pugsley]

Jees Freo, leave some for the rest of us!

I think thats the least of our worries.

 

[hugecannon]

Jees Freo, leave some for the rest of us!

I’d hope we’d ask a question about Constable, he’s looked good in the limited viewings I’ve had of him

 

[DJ75]

O'Connor is quicker than Hately but Hately when drafted had the better endurance of the pair, IMO neither will ever be "WOW" type midfielders but good solid midfielders a rung below the top boys. O'Connor the better defensively, Hately the better offensively, both lack a bit of consistency by foot but that goes with the roles they play.

Hately was a high level point guard in basketball. He's not slow and has pretty decent athleticism.

 

[Mutineer]

Hately was a high level point guard in basketball. He's not slow and has pretty decent athleticism.

Where exactly did I say Hately was slow?

I said Ronin was quicker which is backed up by their testing.

 

[relapse]

I see Kane Cornes has written a simpleton piece about Adelaide's recruiting.

If Kane wants to do a hit piece on our list and recruiting then he's welcome to, but my problem is that this reads like it was a written by a 10 year old with no real depth or analysis to it.

The crux of what he wrote is that Port drafted Duursma and Butters and the Crows didn't and also trying to say that we made a mistake not drafting Todd Marshall.

So rather than actually addressing our recruiting it's a poorly written Port V Crows article.

 

[Mutineer]

I’d hope we’d ask a question about Constable, he’s looked good in the limited viewings I’ve had of him

Constable is pretty pedestrian pace wise and tested poorly for endurance at the draft combine hence why he slipped quite dramatically I would think. That said he is a big bodied clearance machine but with his lack of acceleration he was always a handball before kick type midfielder as a junior. Pretty versatile too in that he is quite proficient when played across either half forward or half back.

I wonder if his endurance has improved or it could be why he can't get a regular gig with the Cats?

 

[Geo57]

I see Kane Cornes has written a simpleton piece about Adelaide's recruiting.

If Kane wants to do a hit piece on our list and recruiting then he's welcome to, but my problem is that this reads like it was a written by a 10 year old with no real depth or analysis to it.

The crux of what he wrote is that Port drafted Duursma and Butters and the Crows didn't and also trying to say that we made a mistake not drafting Todd Marshall.

So rather than actually addressing our recruiting it's a poorly written Port V Crows article.

What in the article didn't make sense. He was quoting Lloyd. We are deplorable. Recruiting and list management together with leadership and administration have been deplorable. No excuses now take it on the chin. Unless there are absolute massive changes across the whole club we will not win another premiership in a generation. Sad for me as a supporter who has supported them since inception. You put your heart and soul in the club and you end up with this. Absolute amateur hour.

 

[Thetrader15]

Constable is pretty pedestrian pace wise and tested poorly for endurance at the draft combine hence why he slipped quite dramatically I would think. That said he is a big bodied clearance machine but with his lack of acceleration he was always a handball before kick type midfielder as a junior. Pretty versatile too in that he is quite proficient when played acroos either half forward or half back.

I wonder if his endurance has improved or it could be why he can't get a regular gig with the Cats?

So not dissimilar to Matt Crouch...except for his height?

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

What in the article didn't make sense. He was quoting Lloyd. We are deplorable. Recruiting and list management together with leadership and administration have been deplorable. No excuses now take it on the chin. Unless there are absolute massive changes across the whole club we will not win another premiership in a generation. Sad for me as a supporter who has supported them since inception. You put your heart and soul in the club and you end up with this. Absolute amateur hour.

You could write that same article about any club because every club has a draft year that stinks in hindsight.

Todd Marshall and Sam Powell Pervert? Give me a break. Wouldn’t want either of them.

 

[Thetrader15]

I see Kane Cornes has written a simpleton piece about Adelaide's recruiting.

If Kane wants to do a hit piece on our list and recruiting then he's welcome to, but my problem is that this reads like it was a written by a 10 year old with no real depth or analysis to it.

The crux of what he wrote is that Port drafted Duursma and Butters and the Crows didn't and also trying to say that we made a mistake not drafting Todd Marshall.

So rather than actually addressing our recruiting it's a poorly written Port V Crows article.

Did he write it in Crayons? Compare with other clubs too?

Did he also do a piece on port's recruiting of Motlop, Watts, Dixon, Lycett, Toumpas, McKenzie, Thomas, et al who have all underperformed considering what they were being paid?

As much as he would want to talk specifics of the last couple of years, I'd suggest the fact they have played the kids means they are going to be ahead of the crows who have been hanging down in the sanfl.

But he's right, we should have taken anyone ahead of Gallucci

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

The problem isn’t with recruiting it’s with developing. Gallucci Polholke etc should have close to 100 games with us now and be established but we chose not to play them instead keeping a stagnant list.

 

[Thetrader15]

You could write that same article about any club because every club has a draft year that stinks in hindsight.

Todd Marshall and Sam Powell Pervert? Give me a break. Wouldn’t want either of them.

I'd take Marshall ahead of Gallucci, but really wouldn't want a character like Pickled Pig in our club

 

[Mutineer]

So not dissimilar to Matt Crouch...except for his height?

Not really, Matt more generally kicks it more and covers the ground better, Constable a better kick when he has time.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

I'd take Marshall ahead of Gallucci, but really wouldn't want a character like Pickled Pig in our club

I’m not writing an article on how the crows failed recruiting 27 gamer Gallucci and not 20 gamer Marshall though.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

I’m not writing an article on how the crows failed recruiting 27 gamer Gallucci and not 20 gamer Marshall though.

Plus 2 years prior to that draft we picked up McGovern so had no need for Marshall

 

[Thetrader15]

Plus 2 years prior to that draft we picked up McGovern so had no need for Marshall

...with a pick in the 40s...but I'm sure Kane won't mention that

 

[MRB37]

Twitter thread shows clear issues there in both our lack of playing first rounders other than Milera and a complete lack of success in the 2nd/3rd/4th rounds of the draft as well as poor trading with trading picks for senior players who haven't added anything like Menzel, Hampton and Gibbs. Basically McGovern was our only success story over the last 5-6 years in the ass end of the draft.

Trading is a clear issue, whether the draft is poor talent identification, poor development and/or coaching or a combination of both is the bigger question.

 

[ABAB]

Twitter thread shows clear issues there in both our lack of playing first rounders other than Milera and a complete lack of success in the 2nd/3rd/4th rounds of the draft as well as poor trading with trading picks for senior players who haven't added anything like Menzel, Hampton and Gibbs. Basically McGovern was our only success story over the last 5-6 years in the ass end of the draft.

Trading is a clear issue, whether the draft is poor talent identification, poor development and/or coaching or a combination of both is the bigger question.

Or simply the last 3-4 years, especially the last 2 years the youngster weren't given a real change which is understandable as we were still in premiership contention.

 

[Golumless]

Twitter thread shows clear issues there in both our lack of playing first rounders other than Milera and a complete lack of success in the 2nd/3rd/4th rounds of the draft as well as poor trading with trading picks for senior players who haven't added anything like Menzel, Hampton and Gibbs. Basically McGovern was our only success story over the last 5-6 years in the ass end of the draft.

Trading is a clear issue, whether the draft is poor talent identification, poor development and/or coaching or a combination of both is the bigger question.

Ok its a disingenuous and lazy argument to only include the last 6 years. Especially when you're including half of that timeframe where it's undecided whether someone is a success or not.

Really, our issues can boil down to 3 things: A) We went all-in on a flag and took list management decisions based around that, B) We mismanaged our side horrifically after 2017 because of a lack of accountability from our coaching and C) draft sanctions in the early part of this decade and the loss of that talent is really biting (note draft sanctions aren't designed to hurt early, they're designed to hurt 4-10 years down the line), which meant we were always at a risk of falling apart quickly if things went wrong due to that loss of talent (even if you go 1/6, it's still one more player to prevent the dam walls from bursting).

Effectively, every issue this club has right now comes back to how poorly we managed our window. It's all on Pyke/Burton/Campo and upper management for allowing them to be unaccountable, as well as people like Chapman/Trigg being incompetent fools. List management/drafting are just a victim of that.

 

[hey shorty]

As quickly as you destroy the list, we can rebuild it just as quick with some ballsy decisions.

We've got guys with currency floating around our list who are capable of fantastic footy but potentially not with us anymore.

We've shown with our selections so far this year the safe option isn't our 1 Wood anymore, let's hope the list management goes down the same path.

I'd flick Lynch, Mrouch, Laird and Kelly of those with any sort of currency on the market. Brad obviously if the price is right for us too. If it's an end of first you'd keep him IMO.

Then of those who don't you've got Gibbs, Mackay and maybe Harto. Then Wilson goes probably with Berg at this stage.

That's 11 players without too much of a thought.

 

[Samcro24]

As quickly as you destroy the list, we can rebuild it just as quick with some ballsy decisions.

We've got guys with currency floating around our list who are capable of fantastic footy but potentially not with us anymore.

We've shown with our selections so far this year the safe option isn't our 1 Wood anymore, let's hope the list management goes down the same path.

I'd flick Lynch, Mrouch, Laird and Kelly of those with any sort of currency on the market. Brad obviously if the price is right for us too. If it's an end of first you'd keep him IMO.

Then of those who don't you've got Gibbs, Mackay and maybe Harto. Then Wilson goes probably with Berg at this stage.

That's 11 players without too much of a thought.

I can’t see us trading out too many players of value unless they want out. I’d say the club would be prepared for one to walk. e.g brouch. Given the profile of the list they won’t want to trade away more former AA players entering their prime.

Not saying they shouldn’t. Just that when you consider the experience lost, (and that there’s more to come), and how the club operates, I can’t see them gutting the list any more than they have to.

 

[hey shorty]

I can’t see us trading out too many players of value unless they want out. I’d say the club would be prepared for one to walk. e.g brouch. Given the profile of the list they won’t want to trade away more former AA players entering their prime.

Not saying they shouldn’t. Just that when you consider the experience lost, (and that there’s more to come), and how the club operates, I can’t see them gutting the list any more than they have to.

True that.

I feel like the wheels of change are in motion though. I don't expect them to trade out all the names mentioned, but I reckon 3 will be.