Past #50: Ben Brown - Traded to Melbourne with 2020 #28 + 2021 R4 for 2020 #26 #33 + 2021 R4(Bris) - 130 gms / 287 gls - thanks Ben

[GarnerSmash]

Weve got two first rounders this year.. and in 2 more years we’ll have another 2.. the under 22’s are better than good.

History tells us that in any group of young players that about half don't make it. We would have to be very, very lucky for all our current group to come on. I'm of the opinion that we are skirting the whirlpool of mediocrity unless we add some more early picks.

 

[DuckYeah]

But not for cents on the dollar, and even if we are rebuilding we still need to have a quality #1 kpf otherwise we run the risk of not developing that rebuild as well as we could


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the discussion of trading BBb is pointless.. the zbull is delusional. Our off field circumstances come in to play when discussing trading your only current marketable player.. If hitting the draft backfires, we’ll be moved out of victoria in aheartbeat

 

[disco_cowboy]

This point is pertinent
Thank you for pointing this out to the posters who think we are advocating bottoming out

We aren’t suggesting trading multiple players out

We are suggesting trading 1 over 27 year old out
One that can get us a decent return back to make it worthwhile

And the only other one in that 27-30 age range would be cunners especially with his back or Polec but Polec probably only gets us an early second rounder

Hence brown makes the most sense, but the other 2 are options also

Its only worth considering trading Brown if the right offer comes around or if there is interest from a top 10 trade target to come to us.

But I think the exact same logic can be applied to anyone who would be considered elite for their position in our team.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Waite was the perfect match for Brown.

Hopefully Larkey can get fit soon otherwise we should be looking for FA or trade (definitely not Larkey, a surplus flanker) to bring someone in for support.

 

[Rad Roo]

Everyone’s tried to encourage him, roast him, inspire him - all for no return. He needs a break.

So give him a break, let him have a month off, let walker, woods settle a bit and try different things. We are persisting with someone who is not going to come up until a whole lot of things change.

 

[Rad Roo]

They just showed footage of him talking one on one with Jade Rawlings in the rooms on channel 7 post game.
I wasn't paying super close attention to it cause I usually trail off when Darcy and Richo do their post game padding crap while you wait for the presser.
Would love to see it again but looked like Browny looked a bit despondent sucking in a deep breath afterwards and Jade was just as emotional.
Again it might've been some home truths or perhaps it was an emotional heart to heart.

Why not drop him, give him some rest, you don't get players to perform better by continuing play them when they are out of form.

 

[Rad Roo]

If we are in rebuild mode and I mean full rebuild mode , in my opinion which means sfa then this is the correct decision moving forward . If Ben is on the table then we owe it to others such as Taz , Higgo etc to ask them if they would like a shot at a flag somewhere else and if the right deal is there then we would be negligent not to act . The time has come for change and we must act .

can't do that because higgins and goldie just signed 3 years extension....

 

[ChoppyGun]

Why not drop him, give him some rest, you don't get players to perform better by continuing play them when they are out of form.

Who exactly are we dropping him for?

Last time I checked Carey and Longmire have retired.

 

[Rad Roo]

Who exactly are we dropping him for?

Last time I checked Carey and Longmire have retired.

Yes with that thinking we will never move forward, if we dont' have a decent key forward then we need to play short, 6 small/medium forwards, we need to rejig the entire gameplan so we are not always stuck to 'bomb it long to the big forward'. If Brown is out of form, Larkey injured then we need cant go back to the big forward but have to show more finesse with a more nimbler system that lowers the eye sight. Walker has already shown something so him as the sole key forward with 5 smaller players..........you never know.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Yes with that thinking we will never move forward.

So if we don't drop our best players we will never move forward.

Gotcha.

 

[7577969923]

Who exactly are we dropping him for?

Last time I checked Carey and Longmire have retired.

Does anyone think that if BB had of swapped positions with Bruce in the Bulldogs game and Lynch in the Richmond game he wouldn't have had an extra 6 to 8 goals being on the end of quality forward line delivery? Our game plan and forward fifty entries this season have crucified him. If we were getting 30 forward fifty entries from our best five or six ball users and he was still struggling then I would be more worried. He has also lost 4 minutes plus time on per quarter to gas his opponents, nullifying his stamina advantage.

He will bounce back from this no problem.

 

[Rad Roo]

So if we don't drop our best players we will never move forward.

Gotcha.

yep gotcha indeed. Best player isn't always the most relevant player...........plus brown is our best player? can't even provide a contest, cant physically grapple with opp defenders. Best indeed, gotcha

 

[big_e]

Its only worth considering trading Brown if the right offer comes around or if there is interest from a top 10 trade target to come to us.

But I think the exact same logic can be applied to anyone who would be considered elite for their position in our team.

OK, perhaps I'm missing something, but I always thought that the player decided where they wanted to go, and then it is up to the club to facilitate the deal. As opposed to us ringing other clubs and saying "what will you give us for BBB?"

So what a club might be able to give us is irrelevant if he doesn't want to go there.

 

[shintemaster]

Does anyone think that if BB had of swapped positions with Bruce in the Bulldogs game and Lynch in the Richmond game he wouldn't have had an extra 6 to 8 goals being on the end of quality forward line delivery?

No, I don't think he would. Half a game from Walker has shown that it's not just poor delivery.

He will bounce back from this no problem.

That I do think is likely.

 

[DuckYeah]

History tells us that in any group of young players that about half don't make it. We would have to be very, very lucky for all our current group to come on. I'm of the opinion that we are skirting the whirlpool of mediocrity unless we add some more early picks.

You probably buy a lotto ticket everytime its 5mil plus too.. this year is not the year to engage in draft lottery! I heckin tell you that right now.

this year is where you get Lachie Whitfield cheap!

you should listen to an interview with Gary Neville on what EPL can do on the cheap. Players wages are going to be slaughtered this year across all sports. This is the time when you get your players, in a time for salary cap prevention, how good is it to be a million down? Oh,heck the draft! Go for UFA and RFA’s

Edit: its the wrong thread, I know. But you dont sell on the low. Its a business decision. Lets heckin buy on the low! Keep BBB and lets build!

you know how good the market has been?Fine example, afterpay I bought at 12, bhp i bought at 19. You heckin buy low. You dont sell your prize possessions at Lows. That ******* has no idea about what to do with prized stocks...

LETS BUILD!

after this thread, TheZebull or whatever the heck his name is, is a complete *******! No idea, sole principal is his cognitive bias. Just a goose

 

[the flying ham]

You probably buy a lotto ticket everytime its 5mil plus too.. this year is not the year to engage in draft lottery! I fu**in tell you that right now.

this year is where you get Lachie Whitfield cheap!

you should listen to an interview with Gary Neville on what EPL can do on the cheap. Players wages are going to be slaughtered this year across all sports. This is the time when you get your players, in a time for salary cap prevention, how good is it to be a million down? Oh,fu** the draft! Go for UFA and RFA’s

Edit: its the wrong thread, I know. But you dont sell on the low. Its a business decision. Lets fu**in buy on the low! Keep BBB and lets build!

you know how good the market has been?Fine example, afterpay I bought at 12, bhp i bought at 19. You fu**in buy low. You dont sell your prize possessions at Lows. That ******* has no idea about what to do with prized stocks...

LETS BUILD!

Ripping post DY. Gets it.

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[The Nostradamus]

^couple of head in the sand types

Anyone no point going back and forth

We will see what happens with brown at years end. Largely will come to what clubs are offering and if good enough then I expect Brady and co to pull the trigger

 

[7577969923]

OK, perhaps I'm missing something, but I always thought that the player decided where they wanted to go, and then it is up to the club to facilitate the deal. As opposed to us ringing other clubs and saying "what will you give us for BBB?"

So what a club might be able to give us is irrelevant if he doesn't want to go there.

That's the way it usually works out. Worst case the club and the player fall out and the player ends up in the draft like when Nick Stevens wanted to go to Collingwood but Port wouldn't trade him. He went to the draft and ended up at Carlton.

 

[7577969923]

yep gotcha indeed. Best player isn't always the most relevant player...........plus brown is our best player? can't even provide a contest, cant physically grapple with opp defenders. Best indeed, gotcha

When you add an "s" to the end of a noun that is what is known as a plural, meaning more than one. Brown is the leading goalkicker in the comp over the past three years. Of course he is one of our best players.

 

[Rad Roo]

When you add an "s" to the end of a noun that is what is known as a plural, meaning more than one. Brown is the leading goalkicker in the comp over the past three years. Of course he is one of our best players.

Lol, blah blah, again, grammar Nazi first, then something nasty, finally back to where u from. Next

 

[DuckYeah]

^couple of head in the sand types

Anyone no point going back and forth

We will see what happens with brown at years end. Largely will come to what clubs are offering and if good enough then I expect Brady and co to pull the trigger

No, you are suffering in cognitive dissonance.. you are not looking at this as a business perspective. Footy teams are a business, success will come if you are a successful business (without handouts)
The big 4 are successful businesses, they dont give up their prize blue chip stocks, Ever!

 

[disco_cowboy]

OK, perhaps I'm missing something, but I always thought that the player decided where they wanted to go, and then it is up to the club to facilitate the deal. As opposed to us ringing other clubs and saying "what will you give us for BBB?"

So what a club might be able to give us is irrelevant if he doesn't want to go there.

So to that point, how do we 'trade ben brown'?

He is out of contract at years end, we have the first right to re-sign him or we negotiate a move with him, his manager and an interested party.

What I'm saying is, if we leave the door open you can enter discussions with opposition clubs then take that to Brown/his manager and say this is what we want to do - speak to to them and see if you want to go..

But this is all irrelevant because I don't think we should trade him, all I'm asking is for those who seem to be demanding it - that they submit what they think is a fair trade. I don't think more draft picks in a compromised (smaller group / high NGA / high Father-Son) is worth it.

 

[Rad Roo]

So to that point, how do we 'trade ben brown'?

He is out of contract at years end, we have the first right to re-sign him or we negotiate a move with him, his manager and an interested party.

What I'm saying is, if we leave the door open you can enter discussions with opposition clubs then take that to Brown/his manager and say this is what we want to do - speak to to them and see if you want to go..

But this is all irrelevant because I don't think we should trade him, all I'm asking is for those who seem to be demanding it - that they submit what they think is a fair trade. I don't think more draft picks in a compromised (smaller group / high NGA / high Father-Son) is worth it.

Due to the virus and his declining performance, the club has the stronger bargaining power, he needs us more than we need him. If Brown is no longer there, as with last sat, as bad as the game, walker did far more as a key forward to provide a contest than brown ever had in the games thus far. Brown is a severely limited forward and not a key forward in the traditional sense in that he does not provide the physical contest stuff.

He is worth at least a first rounder to a club that is in the window and that probably would mean between pick 11 and 18, which is fine as we have enough senior players at the club and also we have a chance of pulling in a proper structure where we get 2 key forward who could provide contest to bring the ball to the ground and leading up.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

It's amazing how when things aren't going well the solution is to trade players out. We will never get another Brown. If we were in the top and he had kicked 20-30 games this conversation wouldn't be happening. We need to clear out some players but these players are not in the top bracket and can easily be replaced.
Last year people wanted to trade out Goldy and Higgins. Imagine where we would be without Goldy and imagine where Geelong would be if they got him. I am all for improving our team but not other teams.

Ok - here's the thing.

For all those saying we don't trade BBB (even for 'over the odds') and in effect we dont trade anyone any good because we will miss them - WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO INCREASE OUR CHANCES OF WINNING A FLAG IN 5 YEARS?

(i) just get lucky in drafting
(ii) assume we will develop our players better than every other club
(iii) I would rather we keep our players and I dont care about winning flags any more - 9th is good enough - so we dont need a lot of draft picks
(iv) trade At's and Marley for a first rounder to GC; Tyson and Garner to GWS pick 10
(IV) any other thoughts welcomed.

You say ....imagine where we would be without Goldie and Higgo....we are 17th and have a terrible list.

We dont have to imagine it - we see it every week!!

It's fine for everyone to say ...don't trade anyone...don't take any risks...don't upset anyone ....BUT WHAT IS YOUR ALTERNATIVE?

 

[archereleven]

Where would we be? maybe 18th instead of 17th?

I lol'd

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