List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Mr_Plow]

Just read on Carlton website we are number 1 for turnovers entering Saturday's game-- please draft mids that can kick..

We are also a very aggressive team. 3rd or 4th highest scoring, I think.

 

[Arr0w]

We turned our last First rounder into 3 First rounders (Stocker, Kemp and Philp).
On the weekend, we had 7 First rounders drafted since the start of our rebuild who didn't play.
We're at the stage of our list where we can over-pay draft picks to get the players we need.

And we might not be able to get Papley, but I'd suggest we're a better chance at getting him to ask for a trade to Carlton a second time, than getting Ryan to request a trade out of Perth.

Forget the names, they are suggestions only. Papley would be a great get, but IMHO, using 2 first rounders in total value would be overs, something decent needs to come back

As for our talented players that weren't in the side, that really is a short term, simplistic analysis. They are on the list to replace, retirements over the next 3 years and of course, like the injuries we have now

 

[Mr_Plow]

If we're going after contracted players, I'd love for us to have a crack at Cameron Zurhaar.

I know he didn't have the greatest game against us on the weekend, but he's generally pretty consistent.

Gives us that bit of aggression that we're probably lacking.

How does he not have a contract for next year yet?

 

[CJMB]

If we're going after contracted players, I'd love for us to have a crack at Cameron Zurhaar.

I know he didn't have the greatest game against us on the weekend, but he's generally pretty consistent.

Gives us that bit of aggression that we're probably lacking.

Reckon they'd have him in the same list as Simpkin and Thomas. He's young, shows a bit, and probably exemplifies that illusive shinbone spirit... Norf fans would be pinning a fair bit of hope (for the future) on him right now, it'd probably devastate the Arden St faithful to lose him.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The trouble is getting those trades through in the first place. Papley + Macrae would cost more than Curnow and two 1st rounder. Clubs can't assume a Carlton 1st rounder is worth a top 4 pick anymore. Future first could end up in the teens if you guys improve (especially if you're handing over quality like Macrae or Papley). With Curnow's injury history, he doesn't hold the same value that he used to either.

That's without even getting into the contract situations, where Papley has another 4 years, while Macrae has another 2. Also Macrae is earning around $750k per year, and is contracted another 2 years. You'd need to be offering $900k+ for a career length contract, or else why would he move clubs?

My suggestion was Papley straight swap for Curnow.. Given that the Swans were prepared to throw everything at Daniher who has less valeu now, i would suggest Curnow would fit the bill nicely..

Then it would be 2 x first round picks for Macrae, might need to do some shuffling to make sure one of those is a top 6.. If i was in charge of Carlton i would offer Jack something he couldnt refuse, something like 6 years at 1.2mil, sure its paying overs but we need a quality mid to support Cripps so we must be prepared to sacrifice a bit to make it work.

 

[Stamos]

Forget the names, they are suggestions only. Papley would be a great get, but IMHO, using 2 first rounders in total value would be overs, something decent needs to come back

As for our talented players that weren't in the side, that really is a short term, simplistic analysis. They are on the list to replace, retirements over the next 3 years and of course, like the injuries we have now

1. Oh, for sure. When people say 2 first rounders, I think the assumption is that a 2nd comes back, as that's what recent trades have been (Treloar, Gibbs, Shiel, Neal).

2. I don't think it's short term. There is a lot of talent to come into the side. If we were to pay overs for a Papley, it is likely a more efficient way to spend our draft picks than to use them on players who won't be able to get a game in the 1s. We are at the stage where we shouldn't worry about spending draft picks on quality 1st 18 players who will improve our team significantly.

 

[Eiffel 65]

How does he not have a contract for next year yet?

He's contracted until the end of 2022.

But if we were making a play for a contacted player, I'd be all in for Zurhaar.

Imagine how opposition would be feeling at forward 50 stoppages, with Pittonet, Cripps and Zurhaar all primed to make a massive bump

They'd Sh1t themselves!

 

[CJMB]

My suggestion was Papley straight swap for Curnow.. Given that the Swans were prepared to throw everything at Daniher who has less valeu now, i would suggest Curnow would fit the bill nicely..

Then it would be 2 x first round picks for Macrae, might need to do some shuffling to make sure one of those is a top 6.. If i was in charge of Carlton i would offer Jack something he couldnt refuse, something like 6 years at 1.2mil, sure its paying overs but we need a quality mid to support Cripps so we must be prepared to sacrifice a bit to make it work.

7.2M over 6 years to an almost 26 year old Macrae?!... He's not even the best midfielder at his club.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

7.2M over 6 years to an almost 26 year old Macrae?!... He's not even the best midfielder at his club.

I think you can not look at it like that, you think of what he would do to the Carlton midfield and our team as a whole.. An established gun midfielder who would immediately take pressure of Cripps. You could have said the same thing about Lachie Neale at Freo, but its the bears laughing all the way to the top 4.. We have a glaring weakness in our support to Cripps and IMO we need to target an established gun mid who can come in and make an immediate impact.. The club have tried in the past with Shiel & Coniglio so they know it.. It doesnt have to be Macrae but i think he would fit perfectly.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Papley at 28 what? He's 24yo.

You are right

 

[HARKER]

2. I don't think it's short term. There is a lot of talent to come into the side. If we were to pay overs for a Papley, it is likely a more efficient way to spend our draft picks than to use them on players who won't be able to get a game in the 1s. We are at the stage where we shouldn't worry about spending draft picks on quality 1st 18 players who will improve our team significantly.

I call this talent, 'latent' (funny that because the word is an anagram of talent)

Latent because we don't really know what it may yet become and how it will best serve the whole.
Players - Dow, O'Brien, Philp, Stocker and Kemp are all first rounders yet for one reason or another, are currently not in our starting team.

Imagine being told that you'd be given five first rounders in any given year? You'd be pencilling in a premiership in 3 years time
We then have clear best 22 players in CCurnow, Fisher and Marchbank to come back also.

That's why I keep saying that we don't really know what we have yet and whether it's the best balance going forward.
It's also why I feel we have to look at this list and address only the most obvious of needs and if it costs...it costs.

 

[Blue__Balls]

You are making assumptions here

I am not suggesting we need to go to the draft

Let's be realistic here.

Papley has 3 years to run on a contract. He is one of the best small forwards/player at the Swans. His priority would be to get to Melbourne, club of choice second, but the Swans don't have to trade him

Ryan has more strings to his bow, than Papley

Witherden gives us run/carry and a booming kick

Ballenden is a Jones replace, cover for KPDs short term while being able to cover other areas

We are a better side for it

Why on earth is Liam Ryan coming to Carlton?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Why on earth is Liam Ryan coming to Carlton?

What has happened to Willie Rioli?

 

[Blue__Balls]

What has happened to Willie Rioli?

Suspended for tampering with a pee sample, yeah?

 

[Arr0w]

1. Oh, for sure. When people say 2 first rounders, I think the assumption is that a 2nd comes back, as that's what recent trades have been (Treloar, Gibbs, Shiel, Neal).

2. I don't think it's short term. There is a lot of talent to come into the side. If we were to pay overs for a Papley, it is likely a more efficient way to spend our draft picks than to use them on players who won't be able to get a game in the 1s. We are at the stage where we shouldn't worry about spending draft picks on quality 1st 18 players who will improve our team significantly.

Are you seriously suggesting Liam Ryan wouldn't get a game in our side?

 

[Arr0w]

Why on earth is Liam Ryan coming to Carlton?

Why on earth is Papley?

 

[Stamos]

Are you seriously suggesting Liam Ryan wouldn't get a game in our side?

No, not sure why you would think that?

Liam Ryan would be a great addition, but he's significantly less realistic than Papley. Why would he leave Perth?

 

[Stamos]

Why on earth is Papley?

Because he requested a trade to Carlton last October, he's from Victoria and his girlfriend lives in Melbourne.

 

[Own The Future]

Why on earth is Liam Ryan coming to Carlton?

Not a chance.

 

[smashbox gill]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on Fisher?

This isn’t a trade question, this is a why is he not in the team question?

Is he out of favour? Or just being made to earn his spot?

 

[DangerousD]

You are making assumptions here

I am not suggesting we need to go to the draft

Let's be realistic here.

Papley has 3 years to run on a contract. He is one of the best small forwards/player at the Swans. His priority would be to get to Melbourne, club of choice second, but the Swans don't have to trade him

Ryan has more strings to his bow, than Papley

Witherden gives us run/carry and a booming kick

Ballenden is a Jones replace, cover for KPDs short term while being able to cover other areas

We are a better side for it

We are both making a lot of assumptions, speculating on the players these guys become and the possible cost.
Im aware of Papleys situation, standing and possible cost, ost of it isn’t really relevant, except the cost and what we could do with the assets instead.

I rate Witherden, it was confirmed last year by Fagan that he had been struggling with homesickness, I think he will be gettable, I’m not 100% sure if he makes us better or not, but my point was, he can easily be picked up, with Papley, by just using the two first rounders.

Im a bit stumped how Ryan has more strings to his bow than Papley, he gets less of the ball, takes less marks, lays less tackles and kicks less goals. Now I’m not sure what you’re looking for in a forward but he’s not doing anything better than Papley, he would be cheaper and that’s about it. He also has a few kids if I recall, so very unlikely to leave West Coast.

No idea on Ballenden, it’s largely not relevant to my point. That we can get Papley and use the 2nd rounder coming back on another player if need, then it’s not two first rounders on one player, it’s two first rounders on two players.

 

[Arr0w]

No, not sure why you would think that?

Liam Ryan would be a great addition, but he's significantly less realistic than Papley. Why would he leave Perth?

Sigh

Stamos

1 What makes you think Swans will release Papley?

2 What makes you think, that the Swans will only deal with us, rather than all Melbourne clubs if Papley's main priority is Melbourne

The same, in part could be related to any uncontracted player

Yeah?

 

[Stamos]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on Fisher?

This isn’t a trade question, this is a why is he not in the team question?

Is he out of favour? Or just being made to earn his spot?

He was injured. He got back into the team and then got gastro before he could play.
The guys he's competing with for a spot have been pretty good, and it's harder to stake a claim in the scratch matches.
I'm sure he'll be back soon.

 

[Arr0w]

Because he requested a trade to Carlton last October, he's from Victoria and his girlfriend lives in Melbourne.

So any Melbourne club would suffice, no?

Swans didn't trade him last year, yeah?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Why on earth is Papley?

Arrow, you've plucked a WA player, born and bred, playing regular senior footy for a WA-based flag contender, and suggested that we should target him instead of a player who, 8 months ago, requested a trade to our club from his current club who are facing the prospect of multiple years at the bottom of the ladder.

I understand wanting a more x-factor small forward, but just because that's your preference it doesn't mean we can just cherry pick one that suits and have him.