Preview 2020 AFL National Draft thread

[King Corey]

Spoiler: Lore's 2020 Draft Order

 

[Pykie]

Unfortunately, if they fall within the system of employment law in this country, then professional sport is very much about being 'fair' - a bedrock of our system.

This isn't the USA where it's a wild west, and AFL players don't get anywhere near that kind of money.

"they simply opt not to play in the league where the average wage is about 6 times that of the average person in Australia."

Or, via the AFLPA they refuse to accept it as a condition of collective bargaining.

Average salaries in the AFL are a stupid metric. If it's an 'applies to the goose and the gander' scenario then you absolutely need to think about the kids or rookies who aren't on any sort of ludicrous money and consider how this might affect them.

Every kid that goes into the draft is at the risk of being picked up by an interstate club, whether they have to move interstate on the night or 2 days later makes little difference imo. You're reasoning would put into dispute the entire draft system if that was the case.

You are trying to imply as if every kid in the system is going to move interstate as a trade.

It could actually work in the complete reverse, it might eventuate that it gives the WA and SA clubs an opportunity to trade for homegrown talent following the draft from pick ranges that they didn't have access to on the night. The Academy systems are already in place to keep draftable players in NSW/QLD.

As for the kids and how it would effect them? Tarryn Thomas was given board and lodging by the club for the entire 2019 season, he was paid $187,000 in 2019 excluding any personal sponsorship deals as an 18 year old that moved interstate. I'm sure he's perfectly fine.

 

[King Corey]

Yeah, the inbalance is terrible.

With FA should have come the swap of contract power from player to club.

There could of been some sort of loyalty clause for players to be reimbursed if traded interstate, either minumum lump sums of $30k+ or a % of their contract etc.

They are professional athletes on good wages, if they want the power, sign shorter contracts so clubs can't pick up your current contract from another club.

It will eventually come in, but it will be at a huge cost, the AFLPA will be asking for a major slice of AFL revenue for that switch now.

I think the best we can hope for in the immediate future is the trading of draftee's on draft night as they haven't really joined clubs yet. I.e the draft night trade period is open for 48 hrs following the end of the second night of the draft.

I don't understand the AFLPA constraint on live draftee trading. Again the US trading model has been replicated but then neutered to a high degree.

If Thilthorpe fell to #2 it would fascinating what you might pull out of Port Adelaide for him. Ditto DGB and WC.

 

[shinboner magic]

It's ridiculous it hasn't come in yet, thats the AFLPA having too much power.

You then absolutely take the best player at each pick, you potentially take players that other clubs really want then on trade them for overs.

Visa versa, you can trade on the night to get absolutely what you need if a club has taken a player you really desired, you have a second chance at it.

It has to come in, hopefully in the next 5 years.

Should at least be able to trade players drafted on the night for future picks

 

[Pykie]

I don't understand the AFLPA constraint on live draftee trading. Again the US trading model has been replicated but then neutered to a high degree.

If Thilthorpe fell to #2 it would fascinating what you might pull out of Port Adelaide for him. Ditto DGB and WC.

I see this as the likely scenario. The same as if Freo took Phillips or Hollands.

The go home factor doesn't change with live trading, if anything, it enables clubs to get exactly who they want. In most cases for the WA and SA clubs it would be the Thilthorp, Rankine, Lukosious types.

 

[Kanga Glory]

Ferbs you were motoring when you were 16, how about now ? Haha

Rankine I would say would be pushing to get 11 seconds for 100m based on the training they do for purely football.
But if trained for athletica may break 11.

I ran 100m in 11 seconds when I was 16 and Rankine is shitloads faster than I ever was. I know there is at least one other member of this board that is that fast or faster too.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Themanbun]

Every kid that goes into the draft is at the risk of being picked up by an interstate club, whether they have to move interstate on the night or 2 days later makes little difference imo. You're reasoning would put into dispute the entire draft system if that was the case.

You are trying to imply as if every kid in the system is going to move interstate as a trade.

It could actually work in the complete reverse, it might eventuate that it gives the WA and SA clubs an opportunity to trade for homegrown talent following the draft from pick ranges that they didn't have access to on the night. The Academy systems are already in place to keep draftable players in NSW/QLD.

As for the kids and how it would effect them? Tarryn Thomas was given board and lodging by the club for the entire 2019 season, he was paid $187,000 in 2019 excluding any personal sponsorship deals as an 18 year old that moved interstate. I'm sure he's perfectly fine.

I'm not saying every kid will move interstate - I'm saying that it's a possibility.

And yes, every kid is a chance to be drafted interstate. I don't want to add any more uncertainty to those 18 year olds.

TT was paid what, maybe $120k after tax? I'm sure a small portion of this board would earn more than that, without the expenses that come with being an AFL player. He works how many hours a day you reckon?

You're trying to bring in rules based off of other sports where rookies earn in the millions each year with a minimum of about 3/4 of a million?

For every Jared Polec, or Dustin Martin or whoever else on a giant contract there's a bunch of guys who earn a couple of grand a week and who never last longer than a few years on an AFL list. They need to be considered and the AFLPA will consider them.

I just had a read of their CBA and it seems they go all out to protect draftees via clauses - maybe they have a memory of how tough it actually is as a draftee?

The AFLPA bargain - if they decide to agree to such a proposal they'll take their pound of flesh and I won't begrudge them for it.

 

[Pykie]

I'm not saying every kid will move interstate - I'm saying that it's a possibility.

And yes, every kid is a chance to be drafted interstate. I don't want to add any more uncertainty to those 18 year olds.

TT was paid what, maybe $120k after tax? I'm sure a small portion of this board would earn more than that, without the expenses that come with being an AFL player.

You're trying to bring in rules based off of other sports where rookies earn in the millions each year with a minimum of about 3/4 of a million?

For every Jared Polec, or Dustin Martin or whoever else on a giant contract there's a bunch of guys who earn a couple of grand a week and who never last longer than a few years on an AFL list. They need to be considered and the AFLPA will consider them.

I just had a read of their CBA and it seems they go all out to protect draftees via clauses - maybe they have a memory of how tough it actually is as a draftee?

That is the base draftee wage with match payments. If there's any unskilled, unqualified 18 year olds that earn $120k after tax I'd love to see them put their hands up on here. If you survive your first 2 year contract as an AFL player, it's very likely you are then earning 300k+. Oh yeah, you also get 8 weeks of annual leave a year to go with those wages.......

As for the expenses that come with being an AFL player, what are those you are referring to?

Free food cooked by a chef every single day for you whilst at the club?
Free lodging for interstate kids at a host families for their first full year?
Education/university/buisness connections coming out of every orifice for you at the club?
Post football education programs run for you by club welfare officers.
Free Medical and Physio 24/7?
Full time strength and conditioning coaches?
Full time psychologists?
Sports apparel sponsorships or at a minimum free clothing from the club sponsor?

Anything else?

If they don't want uncertainty, don't nominate for the AFL draft. It's that simple, go play VFL football.

 

[King Corey]

I'm not saying every kid will move interstate - I'm saying that it's a possibility.

And yes, every kid is a chance to be drafted interstate. I don't want to add any more uncertainty to those 18 year olds.

TT was paid what, maybe $120k after tax? I'm sure a small portion of this board would earn more than that, without the expenses that come with being an AFL player.

You're trying to bring in rules based off of other sports where rookies earn in the millions each year with a minimum of about 3/4 of a million?

For every Jared Polec, or Dustin Martin or whoever else on a giant contract there's a bunch of guys who earn a couple of grand a week and who never last longer than a few years on an AFL list. They need to be considered and the AFLPA will consider them.

I just had a read of their CBA and it seems they go all out to protect draftees via clauses - maybe they have a memory of how tough it actually is as a draftee?

The AFLPA bargain - if they decide to agree to such a proposal they'll take there pound of flesh and I won't begrudge them for it.

Uncertainty? That they might change from one new employer to another one within a single 24 hour period. If that's the issue we should ban live pick trading too. What if you're a top SA prospect and the SA club holding pick #1 lives trades it out?

Or you're a Vic prospect and after live trading it comes down to 4 Vic clubs in the top 10?

If anything live draftee trading would increase the odds of players ending up in their home state, assuming that's what they wanted.

I'm no "suck it up" type but if you can't deal with the uncertainty of knowing your destination club for a single overnight 24 hour period of your life, then registering for the AFL probably doesn't suit you.

 

[King Corey]

If they don't want uncertainty, don't nominate for the AFL draft. It's that simple, go play VFL football.

if you can't deal with the uncertainty of knowing your destination club for a single overnight 24 hour period of your life, then registering for the AFL probably doesn't suit you.

Snap.

 

[Themanbun]

That is the base draftee wage with match payments. If there's any unskilled, unqualified 18 year olds that earn $120k after tax I'd love to see them put their hands up on here.

As for the expenses that come with being an AFL player, what are those you are referring to?

Free food cooked by a chef every single day for you whilst at the club?
Free lodging for interstate kids at a host families for their first year?
Education/university/buisness connections coming out of every orifice for you at the club?
Free Medical and Physio 24/7?
Sports apparel sponsorships or at a minimum free clothing from cantebury?

Anything else?

If they don't want uncertainty, don't nominate for the AFL draft. It's that simple, go play VFL football.

Just because they earn more money than the average does NOT make it a ludicrous amount for what they do. In the top 600 or so at their craft in the entire country. How many 18 year olds are that highly skilled and in demand? Point me to an 18 year old in the top 600-1000 in demand workers at their craft and I guarantee they're earning as much.

You are importing concepts from sports where blokes get paid in the millions the day they walk in the door. Do you not understand the difference?

It's funny you mention VFL football - what do you reckon we will be watching if you act like an arseh*le and try to demand from players something the AFLPA refuses to budge on (if they do)?

I know trades and drafts get your blood flowing, Pykie. But if you want to start moving blokes against their will to satisfy your excitement, then I'm certain that their bargaining representatives will extract just compensation, that's even if they ever agree to it in the first place. Again, I won't begrudge them for that.

I don't know why that has gotten you so fired up, just because I what, mentioned that we should accord some fairness to players as well and they will express that via bargaining?

 

[Masked Avenger]

I've been a huge advocate for a rebuild since we fell in a hole in late 2016, geez it's overdue, but offloading BBB for, say, pick 13 seriously boggles my mind. Forget the potential of 18 year olds, this guy's flint hard proven at the only level that counts.

 

[Pykie]

Just because they earn more money than the average does NOT make it a ludicrous amount for what they do. In the top 600 or so at their craft in the entire country. How many 18 year olds are that highly skilled and in demand? Point me to an 18 year old in the top 600-1000 in demand workers at their craft and I guarantee they're earning as much.

You are importing concepts from sports where blokes get paid in the millions the day they walk in the door. Do you not understand the difference?

It's funny you mention VFL football - what do you reckon we will be watching if you act like an a-hole and try to demand from players something the AFLPA refuses to budge on (if they do)?

I know trades and drafts get your blood flowing, Pykie. But if you want to start moving blokes against their will to satisfy your excitement, then I'm certain that their bargaining representatives will extract just compensation, that's even if they ever agree to it in the first place. Again, I won't begrudge them for that.

Captain ****ing obvious.

Try reading my original posts on the topic.

I conceded the exact same point.

This is the major cornerstone of the AFLPA EBA, any change to it would result in a massive concession by the AFL and a huge increase in the AFL players AFL revenue slice.

The average AFL salary probably jumps to $600k+ in the event that this happens.


I'm not sure why you keep saying I'm comparing it to the NFL or NBA, where have I ever said that? Yes the mechanisms are the same, however our sports are completely different. You seem to be obessed with the comparison, so answer me this, what does the average 18 year old NCAA athlete get paid?

TBH you strike me as a parent or relative of an AFL player.

 

[Pykie]

You are importing concepts from sports where blokes get paid in the millions the day they walk in the door. Do you not understand the difference?

Wrong.

There were two starters in the last Superbowl who earnt less than Mason Wood last year.

Should the NFL consider their feelings?

Here's the bottom end of the NBA salaries. They earn less than the base AFL draftee salary.

Maybe they are hard done by too?

Jonah Bolden made half of what Tarryn Thomas did and he was a top 30 draft pick in the NBA in his second year. That was after he went to UCLA and then went to Europe to turn professional. Bolden was traded recently half way across the country from Philli to Phoenix as a 24 year old on $81k per year.......

What do you think you should earn if you are in the top 30 of your craft of a sport played by 450 million registered players in over 195 countries?

Be mindful some of these players went unpaid for 3-4 years of college basketball already. $90k for 4-5 years of professional eligility is millions walking in the door is it?

 

[Rad Roo]

If we can get Alex Davies at no.2, this is the man. Put it into the bank, will be like Pendlebury.

 

[Kangas_11]

If we can get Alex Davies at no.2, this is the man. Put it into the bank, will be like Pendlebury.

OK... who's gonna tell Rad the bad news?

 

[giantroo]

Posted new videos of Tanner Bruhn and Bailey Laurie.

Pykie Bailey Laurie - your thoughts on him as that small forward/Mid? Reminds me of Toby Greene with better agility.


Bailey Laurie
Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro

DOB: March 24, 2002
Height: 178cm
Weight: 76kg

Position: Forward/Outside Midfielder

Strengths: Agility/evasion, creativity, impact, finding space
Improvements: Contested ball, consistency


PRESEASON TESTING RESULTS:

Standing Vertical Jump – 58cm
Running Vertical Jump (R/L) – 63cm/74cm
Speed (20m) – 3.19 seconds
Agility – 7.97 seconds
Endurance (Yo-yo) – 20.5

 

[Merlin007]

Wrong.

There were two starters in the last Superbowl who earnt less than Mason Wood last year.

Should the NFL consider their feelings?

Here's the bottom end of the NBA salaries. They earn less than the base AFL draftee salary.

Maybe they are hard done by too?

Jonah Bolden made half of what Tarryn Thomas did and he was a top 30 draft pick in the NBA in his second year. That was after he went to UCLA and then went to Europe to turn professional. Bolden was traded recently half way across the country from Philli to Phoenix as a 24 year old on $84k per year.......

What do you think you should earn if you are in the top 30 of your craft of a sport played by 450 million registered players in over 195 countries?

Be mindful some of these players went unpaid for 3-4 years of college basketball already. $90k for 4-5 years of professional eligility is millions walking in the door is it?


View attachment 939690

time to form a union and get a cut of the revenue

 

[kool kangas]

OK... who's gonna tell Rad the bad news?

You can....

 

[Themanbun]

Wrong.

There were two starters in the last Superbowl who earnt less than Mason Wood last year.

Should the NFL consider their feelings?

Here's the bottom end of the NBA salaries. They earn less than the base AFL draftee salary.

Maybe they are hard done by too?

Jonah Bolden made half of what Tarryn Thomas did and he was a top 30 draft pick in the NBA in his second year. That was after he went to UCLA and then went to Europe to turn professional. Bolden was traded recently half way across the country from Philli to Phoenix as a 24 year old on $81k per year.......

What do you think you should earn if you are in the top 30 of your craft of a sport played by 450 million registered players in over 195 countries?

Be mindful some of these players went unpaid for 3-4 years of college basketball already. $90k for 4-5 years of professional eligility is millions walking in the door is it?


View attachment 939690

Where are these screenshots from?

Wasn't Bolden two years into a 4 year $7m deal when he got traded? You're seriously misrepresenting his financial standing.

You are aware there is a dollar value difference between USD and AUD right?

The bottom end of the 1-30 rookie scale for 2019/20 was 80 per cent of $1.29 million.

Yeah I'm sure they're all super jealous of Tarryn Thomas.

Your attitude would last half a second at the bargaining table and we wouldn't have a league.

And yes, I am against trading guys on low (sport world) salaries against their will, regardless of the sport.


The NFL CBA says that the minimum salary is $480,000 USD.

The bottom line is, if the players wanted it to be so easy to be traded, then they wouldn't bargain against it in every CBA. And they shouldn't have to accept it just because some blokes on the internet would get far more entertainment out of it.

If they do accept it, they'll do it on their terms. Not yours.

Edit: Just saw you called me 'captain ******* obvious' for making this point. Remember you are the one who blew your top because I suggested that the players might not consider it 'fair', and that we must consider respecting that. Completely blew your top. You are the one who said 'if they don't like it, they can play VFL. That fairness has no place in professional sport. All because you want to see a few kids move clubs so you can get some excitement?

I said that I don't believe it is fair, and the players will only agree to it if they strike a deal they consider fair. I stated that it's part of the bargaining system that fairness IS considered, regardless of what nobodies like you or I think.

That's what you blew your top at, now you try to claim that was your point all along? LOL.

 

[DesertRoo]

Collingwood currently at approx pick 13 just seems the likely one imo.

He's a massive upgrade on what they currently have, is a similar type player to their current setup when Cox is there. Brown stays in Melbourne etc, his uncle played there.

Collingwood also have McInnes in the draft as a top 20 NGA prospect and still pickup a talented young kid, there's a chance they'd have to burn the pick anyway.

The best I’ve heard is Brown and our 2nd for JDG and their 1st, along with paying a portion of BBB salary..

 

[Rooboy 96]

Look, it's not a godfather offer, but it means we take 3 good picks into the draft and really reset this list. The other option is Brisbane 2 x first round picks which probably end up being pick 20 & 21. There may potentially be some other swaps with Collingwood, but I don't think we can ask for the world for Brown after his form this year.

3 x first rounders and a crack at the very talented top end of 2021 next year, if we managed to get a top 30 pick for Polec along with Essendon's second round pick coupled with what we already have u/23, might honestly do the trick.

That would give us 5 x top 30 picks this year.

Focus on developing the kids in key roles next year and take a top 4 pick in 2021 and then look to move back up the ladder in 2022.

* got offered more for Daniher when he only played 4 games in 2019 along with his 7 in 2018

 

[Supreme_Chancellor]

In regards to trading Brown, anything less than Pick 5 or a young gun forward like De Goey is a no for me.

 

[Pykie]

Where are these screenshots from?

Wasn't Bolden two years into a 4 year $7m deal when he got traded? You're seriously misrepresenting his financial standing.

You are aware there is a dollar value difference between USD and AUD right?

The bottom end of the 1-30 rookie scale for 2019/20 was 80 per cent of $1.29 million.

Yeah I'm sure they're all super jealous of Tarryn Thomas.

Your attitude would last half a second at the bargaining table and we wouldn't have a league.

And yes, I am against trading guys on low (sport world) salaries against their will, regardless of the sport.


The NFL CBA says that the minimum salary is $480,000 USD.

The bottom line is, if the players wanted it to be so easy to be traded, then they wouldn't bargain against it in every CBA. And they shouldn't have to accept it just because some blokes on the internet would get far more entertainment out of it.

If they do accept it, they'll do it on their terms. Not yours.

Basketball reference - https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

In US sports generally not all of your salary is guaranteed, unlike our sports. Contracts can be torn up at the drop of the hat.

Bolden only was on $81k per year guaranteed in 2019.

Yes I understand the difference between the USD and AUD, but that seems to be a fair way from your point of AFL players vs NBA players and millions walking through the door? Next you will be telling me the differences in cost of living....

Bolden earned $111,000 AUD in 2019.

Which is likely to be less than Josh Mahoney in 2020.

Bolden got traded half way around America and isn't 18 years old. Bolden at 18 years of age was playing for free. Jonah Bolden is playing in the top league in a world wide sport played by 20 x the amount of people on a court of 5 players at a time.

So, maybe not to much to ask for 18 year old AFL players or established AFL players to move to maintain their lifestyle and pay?

Luckily US sports salaries are made public so there's no disputing it......

 

[Themanbun]

Basketball reference - https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

In US sports generally not all of your salary is guaranteed, unlike our sports. Contracts can be torn up at the drop of the hat.

Bolden only was on $81k per year guaranteed in 2019.

Yes I understand the difference between the USD and AUD, but that seems to be a fair way from your point of AFL players vs NBA players and millions walking through the door?

Bolden earned $111,000 AUD in 2019.

Which is likely to be less than Josh Mahoney in 2020 and Bolden got traded half way around America and isn't 18 years old. Bolden at 18 years of age was playing for free.


View attachment 939800

What did Bolden earn in 2017 and 2018? Every report I see says $1.698m.

I think you're manipulating these statistics to pretend that the sports whose lack of workplace protections for players that you envy so much are not earning generally amounts far in excess that the lower end of AFL players are.

And again, please don't ignore the above where I explicitly state that I am against low paid players being shipped out against their will.

You have a bee in your bonnet about professional sport not being about 'fair'. We literally have a bargaining system which enforces a fair compromise between players and the AFL, regardless of whatever you spew out on here. I will repeat, for the umpteenth time, if the AFLPA think it's a fair proposal, they'll extract their pound of flesh in return. I can understand why they have been reluctant to allow it, and I don't think the prospect of some kid on 2-3k a week being shipped out against their will is something that they'll be frothing over.

 

[Pykie]

What did Bolden earn in 2017 and 2018? Every report I see says $1.698m.

I think you're manipulating these statistics to pretend that the sports whose lack of workplace protections for players that you envy so much are not earning generally amounts far in excess that the lower end of AFL players are.

And again, please don't ignore the above where I explicitly state that I am against low paid players being shipped out against their will.

You have a bee in your bonnet about professional sport not being about 'fair'. We literally have a bargaining system which enforces a fair compromise between players and the AFL, regardless of whatever you spew out on here.

Yes, I'm hacking and manipulating the biggest basketball statistics website on the planet to win a debate with you.

US sports salaries are publicized.

Sorry, you are wrong. You read online articles about his POTENTIAL earnings and take it as gospel.

You seem to think USA sports have a free ride, but miss the absolute basic difference and advantage Australian and AFL athletes have over them.

GUARANTEED CONTRACTS.

The bottom 10% of AFL players are paid very similarly to the bottom 10% of AFL players and they aren't 18 year olds getting that pay, often some of them have been grafting in Europe for a decade....