Preview Rnd 16 - Carlton v Sydney Tues 8th Sept 8.10pm AEST @ Metricon

[Benaly28]

In the immortal words of one Greg Williams:

“Paddy harden the f... up”.


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[ItsAllAboutMe]

The standards for very good must have dropped considerably. He is still well and truly behind Charlie, Harry, JSOS and even Levi.

As I have mentioned this year he has averaged less marks, goals and disposals in his career. Including his first season and last year...... So can't see how he is better this year or anywhere near best 22 with our full list available.

The role he was playing for the team prior to the injury is what was allowing Harry to take dangerous marks close to goal, he would spread the defense and allow Jack Martin to drop into a hole and take a mark 30m out. This might not reflect on stats but its been important.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The role he was playing for the team prior to the injury is what was allowing Harry to take dangerous marks close to goal, he would spread the defense and allow Jack Martin to drop into a hole and take a mark 30m out. This might not reflect on stats but its been important.

He's also one of the players I most like seeing taking possession on a wing on a fast break. Quickly puts the ball to the advantage of our front-runners almost without fail.

I'm starting to think that might be a better role for him long term - high half forward like Adelaide's Tom Lynch in their good years.

 

[Coops93]

On the flip side of that,

Dow and Cuners have shown no capacity to run out a full 4 quarters in the middle. And SPS is another midfielder who lacks pace and the ability to run both ways.

It’s not these guys fault that they’ve all had injury issues that have hampered pre seasons along the way. But it’s also not the clubs responsibility to put them in when they aren’t ready. The endurance required to play midfield isn’t built during the season, it’s built in preseason. Until these guys get a consistent go at a preseason, they’ll continue to be bit part players at best in our midfield

I can see that. I'm not advocating they be played full time on ball, but right now they aren't even in the rotation. There's plenty of opportunity to get them into the midfield rotation and not play them on ball for 4 qtrs. At the moment they aren't even being given that.

 

[bigm386]

The role he was playing for the team prior to the injury is what was allowing Harry to take dangerous marks close to goal, he would spread the defense and allow Jack Martin to drop into a hole and take a mark 30m out. This might not reflect on stats but its been important.

So we are paying how much exactly for a decoy????

Surely you don't recruit a player and say your role is to have almost no impact on the game.

This just makes no sense.

 

[Coops93]

So we are paying how much exactly for a decoy????

Surely you don't recruit a player and say your role is to have almost no impact on the game.

This just makes no sense.

It's a bit of a facile argument that you can't really disprove and is a convenient excuse to explain away his poor stats.

Exactly as you say, if that's all he's doing then you're paying an awful lot for someone to just run away from the ball and make someone follow him.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

So we are paying how much exactly for a decoy????

Surely you don't recruit a player and say your role is to have almost no impact on the game.

This just makes no sense.

Is he overpaid 100%, no arguments here from me. Would be up there with Jared Polec as the most overpaid player in the comp..

 

[Blue_Fusion]

SPS has been horrendous, but I think a lot of people are overplaying how good Polson has been. For a 4th year player, with no real position or role within the team, got absolutely toweled up against Collingwood and was okay against GWS. I would prefer that we persevere with SPS or give a kid a chance rather than wasting games on Polson.

Yeah, while I said he's shown some real improvement, he hasn't set the world on fire. Those "hitting targets from 50 meters away" comments in the scratchy reviews didn't translate to the AFL games.

We should try and persevere with SPS but one more poor season and I'd be putting him up for trade.

 

[CJMB]

It's a bit of a facile argument that you can't really disprove and is a convenient excuse to explain away his poor stats.

Exactly as you say, if that's all he's doing then you're paying an awful lot for someone to just run away from the ball and make someone follow him.

That’s a very simplistic way to put it, but it’s a very shallow observation.

The flip side too is that our other players who could potentially play that similar role don’t bring the defenders with them. Defenders let The likes of Kennedy/SOS/etc have more space and are willing to drop off so they can be the 3rd man in against our key talls.

I don’t get why this ‘off the Ball’ work is such a foreign concept to some. It’s almost the equivalent of drawing the man before passing. It’s a team sport, there’s nothing wrong with leading patterns designed to benefit your team mate.

Dummy running/decoy lines are a serious skill that’s widely appreciated in rugby, and not anyone can do it, you’re much more likely to succeed when a genuinely dangerous player does it, hitting the line at speed, at an angle to suck defenders away from where the real threat is (or will be). It’s the same thing.

 

[Triniboy]

He's also one of the players I most like seeing taking possession on a wing on a fast break. Quickly puts the ball to the advantage of our front-runners almost without fail.

I'm starting to think that might be a better role for him long term - high half forward like Adelaide's Tom Lynch in their good years.

He is quick and has a long penetrating kick, move him behind the ball (HB) to give him more ball handling time.

 

[katmanblue]

Why oh why did (Forget) Dow get dropped?

Here's some insight.

'You've got to toughen up': Diesel slams Carlton's former No.3 pick - https://www.afl.com.au/news/497517

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Edit: bloody autocorrect. Forget > Dow get

 

[BigFrizz36]

Not sure how you think that post conflicts with my previous statement? McGovern IS being gifted games because of his name and contract over kids who are held to significantly higher standards.

McGovern has regressed since coming to Carlton. NO two ways about it and id argue its because he is unfit and therefore unprofessional.

McGovern has played one game back from injury. McGovern gives us a different look up forward if we are playing three talls. If McGovern wasn't playing and we were to play three talls the other options that we would have are Curnow, Silvagni (both injured) Pittonet or Moore. To suggest that he is keeping a kid out is ridiculous.
Clearly we would like him to be going better but he really needs some continuity.
You seem to be the type of poster that believes that if you say sonething forcefully enough then it must be true.

 

[katmanblue]

Cannot believe we are giving Murhy so many games, and yet we drop Dow after one game?

No wonder we are a joke.

Here's 2 time Brownlow medalist (should have been 3) Greg William's take:

'You've got to toughen up': Diesel slams Carlton's former No.3 pick - https://www.afl.com.au/news/497517

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Triniboy]

Cannot believe we are giving Murhy so many games, and yet we drop Dow after one game?

No wonder we are a joke.

Agree..give the younger players more game time.
Murphy has/is been in our top 2-4 players who turn the ball over consistently

 

[Coops93]

That’s a very simplistic way to put it, but it’s a very shallow observation.

The flip side too is that our other players who could potentially play that similar role don’t bring the defenders with them. Defenders let The likes of Kennedy/SOS/etc have more space and are willing to drop off so they can be the 3rd man in against our key talls.

I don’t get why this ‘off the Ball’ work is such a foreign concept to some. It’s almost the equivalent of drawing the man before passing. It’s a team sport, there’s nothing wrong with leading patterns designed to benefit your team mate.

Dummy running/decoy lines are a serious skill that’s widely appreciated in rugby, and not anyone can do it, you’re much more likely to succeed when a genuinely dangerous player does it, hitting the line at speed, at an angle to suck defenders away from where the real threat is (or will be). It’s the same thing.

It's not foreign for me, I doubt it because I don't believe it's true. I think it's being used as a way to justify an expensive recruit that as underwhelmed being given a pass. It works because like I said it's facile and can't be disproved.

Maybe he is doing it, maybe he isn't, but how can anyone make the case with confidence that he is? Where did that rhetoric actually come from? You certainly can't pick it up on the TV and I didn't notice it at the handful of games I've been to this year.

The other reason I doubt it is because a decoy works best if there's actually risk in diverting your attention from them. He's not dominated a game once since coming to our club, so why would teams emphasise him to the point where they'll allow space in dangerous areas just because Mitch was moving somewhere? Like you say, Kennedy, SOS etc. don't draw that attention, but then why would Mitch? He's not exactly tearing games apart in ways Kennedy and SOS aren't/weren't.

 

[HBF]

Great comments from diesel today. If Paddy wants to reach his potential he's gotta work harder.

Yep.
Diesel spot on.

 

[HBF]

Don’t worry we’re not on 7!

Probably means we get Der-Wayne now.

 

[CJMB]

Probably means we get Der-Wayne now.

Channel 504 from 8pm hosted by Sarah Jones with Anthony Hudson, Jonathan Brown, Jordan Lewis, Alastair Lynch and Jon Ralph.

Huddo & Browny certainly beats Dwayne & Gerard!

 

[ajb72]

SPS has been horrendous, but I think a lot of people are overplaying how good Polson has been. For a 4th year player, with no real position or role within the team, got absolutely toweled up against Collingwood and was okay against GWS. I would prefer that we persevere with SPS or give a kid a chance rather than wasting games on Polson.

Sorry but that's inaccurate. Was moved onto Thomas against Pies after he was cutting us up early and totally took him out of the game. Again solid against GWS. The only concern I have with polson is he is playing one speed football. Every time he got the ball, he wanted to run and kick attackingly, which meant some of his kicks were 50/50 at best, which lead to turnovers in dangerous areas.

 

[Graffy4242]

Yes that is a fair crack from someone who would obviously have more insights into how Paddy works at training. It must be cutting Paddy deeply that he is struggling to get a game for us, yet his little brother is now playing senior footy with Richmond, he will either crack the sads and request a trade or will pull his finger out over the offseason and come back the player we all want him to be.

Agree. It's totally on him now and let's see how bad he really wants it.

 

[Earls Smother]

That’s a very simplistic way to put it, but it’s a very shallow observation.

The flip side too is that our other players who could potentially play that similar role don’t bring the defenders with them. Defenders let The likes of Kennedy/SOS/etc have more space and are willing to drop off so they can be the 3rd man in against our key talls.

I don’t get why this ‘off the Ball’ work is such a foreign concept to some. It’s almost the equivalent of drawing the man before passing. It’s a team sport, there’s nothing wrong with leading patterns designed to benefit your team mate.

Dummy running/decoy lines are a serious skill that’s widely appreciated in rugby, and not anyone can do it, you’re much more likely to succeed when a genuinely dangerous player does it, hitting the line at speed, at an angle to suck defenders away from where the real threat is (or will be). It’s the same thing.

Well said.

It is much easier to appreciate the likes of Gov when you watch a game live. Our sport is becoming harder to "fit" anywhere near the full picture on the TV screen. Which is why the clubs and the analysts like Kingy prefer to use the behind-the-goals footage.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Diesel telling it like it is.

None of that, "he's only 20 be patient" stuff.

He worked with the kid, he knows him better than any of us and he is saying he's too soft.

Onus is on Paddy to turn that around or he can kiss his AFL career goodbye because no club will persevere with that display.

 

[bigm386]

McGovern has played one game back from injury. McGovern gives us a different look up forward if we are playing three talls. If McGovern wasn't playing and we were to play three talls the other options that we would have are Curnow, Silvagni (both injured) Pittonet or Moore. To suggest that he is keeping a kid out is ridiculous.
Clearly we would like him to be going better but he really needs some continuity.
You seem to be the type of poster that believes that if you say sonething forcefully enough then it must be true.

Really not sure why you are focusing on one game back from injury when as I have said McGovern has regressed since joining Carlton which can be quantified by actual statistics...

The Coach seems content to "back him in" based on talent that we truly haven't seen since he joined Carlton. Also not even specifically talking about his position this week (admittedly this is the wrong thread for it but this is the way the conversation has gone). But even last week would have much rather seen TDK forward than McGovern in, who seems to be an auto inclusion irrespective of performance.

My issue with our selection is some players in particular our kids are given VERY high expectations vs others whom get backed in. An example being SPS kept as a defender which is insane and Polson dropped who has had 2 games as a defender and improved from game 1-2.

Honestly if you think McGovern is an asset to this side, more power to you. Hope he proves me wrong but has shown nothing to date to disprove the fact he is underperforming and overpaid.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

The standards for very good must have dropped considerably. He is still well and truly behind Charlie, Harry, JSOS and even Levi.

As I have mentioned this year he has averaged less marks, goals and disposals than any season in his career. Including his first season and last year...... So can't see how he is better this year or anywhere near best 22 with our full list available.

Despite his form this year you cannot justifiably compare stat averages from this year to previous years in the shortened version.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I'm hoping to see Tom Papley give off a fantastic handball to Weiters tonight.