List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Cripptonite]

Very happy with what you're proposing and would be wrapped if we got these three in the off season. Papley would add a quality layer to our forward line. Williams would provide much needed run and carry. Graham would give us the 2IC that Cripps is needing. In addition I would like us to add another quick midfielder though this could only be achieved with a lower pick if all the above was to be achieved. We also now need to develop another ruckman. We should look at recruiting a 20-21YO in the rookie draft and develop from there. A back pocket specialist wouldn't go astray either. Unfortunately, like every year, none of this is easy to achieve and there is much to be sorted out in terms of list sizes and who stays and who goes. Time will tell.

Sounds like we are on the same page.

Agree we need to add some speed to the midfield. I think we are better off using pieces at our disposal (ie- Cuningham, Philp, Dow once developed). I also like Zac Williams’ ability to pinch hit in the midfield which is why he’d be perfect for us.

The ruck position is an interesting conundrum. I see and hopefully the clubs views TDK as our primary ruck for the next 10 years. If that’s the case we have a potential star ruck, a capable backup coming into his prime years (Pittonet), and a part-timer for a couple more years (Casboult). We probably need to add another ruck purely for depth purposes but I wouldn’t want to spend much draft assets or $$. Rookie draft or a cheap veteran ruck will do.

I wonder how highly rate Sam Walsh’s brother is. Is there a chance he may fall through to the rookie draft in a year where lists are cut? I assume there will only be 2-3 rounds of national draft picks this year which may see some valuable players slip through, especially rucks or smaller players.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Sounds like we are on the same page.

Agree we need to add some speed to the midfield. I think we are better off using pieces at our disposal (ie- Cuningham, Philp, Dow once developed). I also like Zac Williams’ ability to pinch hit in the midfield which is why he’d be perfect for us.

The ruck position is an interesting conundrum. I see and hopefully the clubs views TDK as our primary ruck for the next 10 years. If that’s the case we have a potential star ruck, a capable backup coming into his prime years (Pittonet), and a part-timer for a couple more years (Casboult). We probably need to add another ruck purely for depth purposes but I wouldn’t want to spend much draft assets or $$. Rookie draft or a cheap veteran ruck will do.

I wonder how highly rate Sam Walsh’s brother is. Is there a chance he may fall through to the rookie draft in a year where lists are cut? I assume there will only be 2-3 rounds of national draft picks this year which may see some valuable players slip through, especially rucks or smaller players.

0 chance Henry (Sam's brother) doesn't get picked up in the national draft. Many see him as the best pure ruckman in this year's pool.

 

[true blue19]

On Papley

Our biggest need IMO is for pressure forwards (I think we need at least 2). The ball comes out of our forward 50 to easily. Papley is not a pressure forward he's more of a HFF and he's not what we need. I've watched him a bit this year. Earlier in the year when Sydney played a smaller forward line, Papley played like a lead up forward. But when Sydney started to play a taller forward line Papley's form dropped off. The main problem i have with Papley is he is either selfish or had poor vision. He'll try and kick the impossible goal instead of passing to a team mate in a better position. I dont like to bag players but I don't think he's a good fit for us.

 

[Bostonian]

And there we have it. The real motive comes out eventually.

You're trolling again. Just stop it.

Are you paranoid in general?

People can have an opinion different to yours. I'd love to know what this real motive is though, sounds amusing.

 

[true blue19]

On Dow and SPS

We drafted these guy's as midfielder and under Bolton he played them in the midfield over Murphy and Ed. When Teague took over he moved SPS to defence and Dow forward and Murphy and Ed into the midfield and we looked instantly better. But now Cripps looks injured, Murphy looks slow, Ed looks tired. We rotate the lest amount of player though the centre bounce than any other team. With Cripps, Setterfield and Ed taking the most and then either Murphy or Martin to back them up. We lack run and flare out of the midfield. Both SPS and Dow add that to our team. We also have player like Cuningham who had his best game ever this year as a full time mid. Gibbons won 2 Liston trophies as a midfielder. We need to rotate more players through the midfield to give them an opportunity to learn and develop or when Murphy and Ed hang up the boots, we'll have to start another rebuild.

 

[Foucault1989]

On Dow and SPS

We drafted these guy's as midfielder and under Bolton he played them in the midfield over Murphy and Ed. When Teague took over he moved SPS to defence and Dow forward and Murphy and Ed into the midfield and we looked instantly better. But now Cripps looks injured, Murphy looks slow, Ed looks tired. We rotate the lest amount of player though the centre bounce than any other team. With Cripps, Setterfield and Ed taking the most and then either Murphy or Martin to back them up. We lack run and flare out of the midfield. Both SPS and Dow add that to our team. We also have player like Cuningham who had his best game ever this year as a full time mid. Gibbons won 2 Liston trophies as a midfielder. We need to rotate more players through the midfield to give them an opportunity to learn and develop or when Murphy and Ed hang up the boots, we'll have to start another rebuild.

Great post.

 

[Stamos]

Are you paranoid in general?

People can have an opinion different to yours. I'd love to know what this real motive is though, sounds amusing.

Your claim of a 15 year rebuild isn't an opinion though, it's just plain wrong.

 

[Bostonian]

Your claim of a 15 year rebuild isn't an opinion though, it's just plain wrong.

Really?

We had three #1 selections from 2005-07.

Normal people understand that if you're taking three #1 picks in a row you're rebuilding.

Those are facts.

 

[Stamos]

Really?

We had three #1 selections from 2005-07.

Normal people understand that if you're taking three #1 picks in a row you're rebuilding.

Those are facts.

So in 2011, when we were within a kick of a prelim, and then made the absolute minimum of 3 list changes, we were rebuilding?
Don't be stupid.

 

[gbatman]

Williams would more than likely replace Simpson. Simpson is a gun and playing terrific footy but I get the feeling that because of his age he might be one who is moved on.

SOS has recruited a lot of talented players with early picks. There is no denying that any of them are talented. Unfortunately talent is only half of what makes a good AFL player. The rest is between the ears. If these talented players don't mature mentally and develop competitiveness and play the game with hardness and intensity then they don't make it.

There are some players on our list who are competitors but lack talent such as Cottrell who is going alright. Newnes is one of these types. Simpson sure was. There are some who have talent but lack competitiveness who are disappointing a lot of people such as Dow and SPS and then there are guns like Walsh who come to us with both.

The big part of player development is putting both those things together. Some players if they haven't got it you can develop it and other players just never develop it.

You see plenty of early draft picks come in with heaps of talent but fail because either their body lets them down or they don't mature mentally.

Development coaches and leaders are going to push these players in the right direction but they have to go there themselves.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Really?

We had three #1 selections from 2005-07.

Normal people understand that if you're taking three #1 picks in a row you're rebuilding.

Those are facts.

Surely by 2011 when we’d won a final the rebuild was well and truely done.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

St Kilda, Port, Brisbane.

Do you even know what AFL is?
Laughable

 

[Arr0w]

Really?

We had three #1 selections from 2005-07.

Normal people understand that if you're taking three #1 picks in a row you're rebuilding.

Those are facts.

You think having 3, number 1 picks is a strategic rebuild?

 

[Bostonian]

Surely by 2011 when we’d won a final the rebuild was well and truely done.

And by 2015 we were wooden spooners again.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Plenty of top 10’s haven’t cut the mustard. Not saying Dow won’t yet but he’ll need to show substantial improvement whether he’s 20 years old or not next year, we won’t keep him on the list until he’s 22 or 23 if he doesn’t find another gear or show he’s capable of it

Depends really doesn't it

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

And by 2015 we were wooden spooners again.

Here's a concept, maybe, just maybe, they were different rebuilds with different people at the helm, instead of one 15 year long rebuild.

We traded our future away in the early 10's because we had to capitalise on having a generational player like Judd, and when he retired it was apparent our current list was not good enough to simply re-tool and go again, so we opted for another full rebuild under SOS.

 

[Bostonian]

Here's a concept, maybe, just maybe, they were different rebuilds with different people at the helm, instead of one 15 year long rebuild.

We traded our future away in the early 10's because we had to capitalise on having a generational player like Judd, and when he retired it was apparent our current list was not good enough to simply re-tool and go again, so we opted for another full rebuild under SOS.

And other teams started behind our rebuild, did their own rebuilds and passed us.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

And other teams started behind our rebuild, did their own rebuilds and passed us.

Did you miss the part where there was two rebuilds? We had a crack at winning it all, came reasonably close one year, realised our window was closed and started another one. That's just smart list management, regardless of the results of the rebuild. Would you rather in 2015 SOS deciding to not rebuild and try and win with the list we had? C'mon man, we'd be worse off than if we hadn't tried another one.

Also what teams are you talking about that started behind our rebuild and then passed us?

 

[HARKER]

So in 2011, when we were within a kick of a prelim, and then made the absolute minimum of 3 list changes, we were rebuilding?
Don't be stupid.

.....The Good Old days when we afraid to lose any player and rushed to sign the likes of Joseph, Davies and Ellard to 2 year contracts.

I know that Malthouse hated our list and the (mis)management of it.

 

[gbatman]

On Dow and SPS

We drafted these guy's as midfielder and under Bolton he played them in the midfield over Murphy and Ed. When Teague took over he moved SPS to defence and Dow forward and Murphy and Ed into the midfield and we looked instantly better. But now Cripps looks injured, Murphy looks slow, Ed looks tired. We rotate the lest amount of player though the centre bounce than any other team. With Cripps, Setterfield and Ed taking the most and then either Murphy or Martin to back them up. We lack run and flare out of the midfield. Both SPS and Dow add that to our team. We also have player like Cuningham who had his best game ever this year as a full time mid. Gibbons won 2 Liston trophies as a midfielder. We need to rotate more players through the midfield to give them an opportunity to learn and develop or when Murphy and Ed hang up the boots, we'll have to start another rebuild.

We have a problem with low rotations through the centre. Dow won't improve that because he is only a centerman. You improve that by having guys who can play center and somewhere else like Jack Martin who has been a godsend to the team. We need that inside/outside midfielder as Teague said. A quick tough skilled player who can play in the center and play in the forward line.

The question I have is why Gibbons doesn't go in the centre more. I guess that would be because he does enough work as a high half forward, a role which is pretty much midfield anyway. IMO Jack Silvagni would be useful in the team as a forward who can go into the centre a bit.

Cuningham had a great game as a midfielder against Essendon, one of the softest and most inoffensive teams in the league. He failed to replicate close to that in the following games playing midfield. Cuningham is one of a number of players we have who have loads of talent and ability but lack a hard edge and raw competitiveness. Sometimes he shows a bit of it, he did against Sydney but mostly he hasn't.

Playing midfield as a talented player with ability but lacking physicality and competitive hardness, you will have some pretty good games but for most of the time you will be absent, especially against tough opponents who bring some heat. No point having guys who build a good highlights package but don't help the team week in week out in their role.

In these shortened games someone like Dow would be spending time up forward and not playing well there, a lot of time on the bench and rotation time in the middle behind all the others. It's not useful to us. If we were desperate Kennedy would be playing and he isn't. Adding an extra mid to that group means adding a multi-positional player with pace.

SPS in the midfield is not going to work until he develops a harder edge to his game. He's getting there but he's not ready. Being blown away in the contests and lack of physicality around the ball is something Teague has fixed and I can't see him making moves that will bring it back. You can't have a player playing in the centre who avoids hard contact and has struggles to win contests like SPS has done all year. He's just showing signs of improvement now. If he gets past that and matures then I think Teague will look at giving him midfield time but at this stage he is not up to the grunt work and hence has played all his footy off the half back flank this season.

I wouldn't worry about Ed and Murphy retiring. There's plenty of time to replace them. You would think that some of Stocker, Dow, Philp, Honey, Ramsay, O'Brien and Cottrell will come through and that we will be using our good position to trade players in and bring in free agents.

Now we are a reasonable side players are going to have to earn their spot and they are going to have to be good. Not half good, not showing a bit, not doing some things good and a few things bad but to be actually up to the level.

Teague wants tough players who play with effort, there is no doubting that and so he should because he wants to win a flag and knows very well if you don't have that you don't win one. Adding the skills, talent and athleticism to that is the next part.

What can be 100% certified by the changes he has made is that if you aren't tough and don't play with effort, if you don't chase and run then you aren't getting a game at Carlton and probably aren't going to be on the list too long.

 

[Jeremias]

Are you paranoid in general?

People can have an opinion different to yours. I'd love to know what this real motive is though, sounds amusing.

Not paranoid in the slightest.

All opinions are welcome, but I don't have much time for people who claim to know what they're talking about, despite all available evidence pointing to the contrary.

Our rebuild started in 2015. That is clear and pretty widely understood. Unless you're trolling, which appears to be the case here, in which facts don't really matter all that much.

 

[Bostonian]

Not paranoid in the slightest.

All opinions are welcome, but I don't have much time for people who claim to know what they're talking about, despite all available evidence pointing to the contrary.

Our rebuild started in 2015. That is clear and pretty widely understood. Unless you're trolling, which appears to be the case here, in which facts don't really matter all that much.

One rebuild started in 2015, the other rebuild resulted in one year of success then it started falling apart again.

Rebuilds are supposed to lead to sustained success. So going through one rebuild for one decent season before the need for another rebuild was needed not long after didn't feel like the rebuild ever stopped.

 

[SOS Rules]

Sounds like we are on the same page.

Agree we need to add some speed to the midfield. I think we are better off using pieces at our disposal (ie- Cuningham, Philp, Dow once developed). I also like Zac Williams’ ability to pinch hit in the midfield which is why he’d be perfect for us.

The ruck position is an interesting conundrum. I see and hopefully the clubs views TDK as our primary ruck for the next 10 years. If that’s the case we have a potential star ruck, a capable backup coming into his prime years (Pittonet), and a part-timer for a couple more years (Casboult). We probably need to add another ruck purely for depth purposes but I wouldn’t want to spend much draft assets or $$. Rookie draft or a cheap veteran ruck will do.

I wonder how highly rate Sam Walsh’s brother is. Is there a chance he may fall through to the rookie draft in a year where lists are cut? I assume there will only be 2-3 rounds of national draft picks this year which may see some valuable players slip through, especially rucks or smaller players.

Agree that we need to develop the young midfielders that we have as well but I reckon you can't have enough good midfielders. Thats why I want the club to keep loading up on them. Walshy's brother would be good, especially if he has the same personality traits. Sounds like he might get snapped up before we can get him I'm though.

 

[Jeremias]

One rebuild started in 2015, the other rebuild resulted in one year of success then it started falling apart again.

Rebuilds are supposed to lead to sustained success. So going through one rebuild for one decent season before the need for another rebuild was needed not long after didn't feel like the rebuild ever stopped.

No. Our current rebuild started in 2015.

Again all this points to you not really understanding what a rebuild actually is.

 

[Bostonian]

No. Our current rebuild started in 2015.

Again all this points to you not really understanding what a rebuild actually is.

I understand fully what a rebuild is. In the last 15 years we've attempted two of them with little success outside of one season.