Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[javaguice]

Gosh this one sounds familiar as well:

KERRY SUZANNE TURNER • Crime Stoppers Western Australia

DESCRIPTION:

www.crimestopperswa.com.au

 

[Kurve]

Agree, I think we can now put this to bed. They should have done more!

It's easy with hindsight to take shots but it's really basic stuff they missed and not just one thing. It's one thing after the other.

Of course the disgrace of it doesn't lie with WA police of today and over twenty years later but they do need to take a really good, hard look back at it.

 

[javaguice]

It's easy with hindsight to take shots but it's really basic stuff they missed and not just one thing. It's one thing after the other.

Of course the disgrace of it doesn't lie with WA police of today and over twenty years later but they do need to take a really good, hard look back at it.

Agreed....the point of the thread is kind of to dissect absolutely everything in hindsight.....I think we are coming up with some great insights and ideas...albeit 20/20.

Some people have waited 25 years for some of this info and some answers.....I dont see harm in critiquing what happened and why this took so long.

 

[BFew]

Some people have waited 25 years for some of this info and some answers

And when you go back to the victims of the various Huntingdale incidents, that's at least 32 years.

 

[SquiffyRae]

The details available on this are appallingly thin. Just the Crimestoppers page; no media or publicity or apparent follow up over the years. Excellent find, javaguice.

There's quite a few cold cases in WA where the lack of publicity is shocking. The case I'm really interested in that we have a separate thread on is Kerryn Tate, the young woman who was murdered out at Boulder Rock. Crimestoppers don't even have a page on Kerryn. Disgusting.

 

[Eaglette01]

Around BRE's arrest there were another 16 cases IIRC of missing/murdered women in WA:

 

[Kurve]

Around BRE's arrest there were another 16 cases IIRC of missing/murdered women in WA:

Thanks for posting. I will take that as confirmation that they are looking at BRE possible involvement in other specific unsolved crimes.

 

[GreyCrow]

HOMICIDE – MARSHA CAROLINE JOHNSON – WARNBRO - Crime Stoppers Western Australia

DESCRIPTION: 25 years of age. Fair skinned. 160 cm tall. Slim build. Shoulder length dark hair. Wearing a red coloured short sleeved t-shirt and dark denim shorts with a belt. QUICK CASE FACTS: Mrs Johnson’s husband went to work at 5:30am on Monday 1 April 1996, leaving...

www.crimestopperswa.com.au

Not a lot of details....but I reckon I know a bloke who could have been hanging around Warnbro around this time.....

No mention of break in and access to the house couldnt be had until the husband and father arrived

Just brainstorming - best access is to knock on the door and surprise attack - actually best access is an appointment but the phone was working at 12.38 and no mention of phone issues - so next is knock and attack

Is this in BREs MO? Just seems different I guess. I assume WAPOL took fingerprint evidence etc - thats on file

 

[SquiffyRae]

Is this in BREs MO? Just seems different I guess. I assume WAPOL took fingerprint evidence etc - thats on file

Feels different to me as well. Attack some time between 12.38 and 3pm in her home and the killer left her body in the house at the scene of the crime. BRE's MO was very different by 1996 and I just can't see him doing that one.

Where BRE left Jane and Ciara suggests to me he was happy for them to be found, but had enough of an idea that forensics was a thing that he didn't want them found quickly. He doesn't strike me as the type to just leave his victim lying completely open in the most obvious place a person would start looking

 

[Kurve]

No mention of break in and access to the house couldnt be had until the husband and father arrived

Just brainstorming - best access is to knock on the door and surprise attack - actually best access is an appointment but the phone was working at 12.38 and no mention of phone issues - so next is knock and attack

Is this in BREs MO? Just seems different I guess. I assume WAPOL took fingerprint evidence etc - thats on file

There's not enough information on this murder, it's awful.

I do think it's consistent with BREs MO, he has form for breaking into and attacking women in their homes and he was active through this period. If it's one thing I think we can be sure about is that he will be responsible for far more crimes against women than what we've seen him charged with thus far.

 

[Willow weeps]

I don't remember where I read it but it was reported that a victim who was then & now living in Tasmania saw the reports regarding the CSK, went to police in Tasmania & made a statement telling them about her own attack nearby. It wasn't until BRE was arrested that the same person contacted Perth police & it seemed that her statement never made it to MACRO. So to answer your questions, he HH victim DID go to police about it when it was first happening but her statement never made it to the right people OR.... It did but W.A. MACRO didn't want the s**t storm it has now received back then & now. They messed up & they new it but perhaps wanted the HH story left out to look like they covered everything when they didn't. They needed her for trial though so her story eventually came out.
I kind of feel for Dawson, he wasn't the man in charge for all of those years.He's only been in charge since Mcgowen put him there. He wasn't even in charge when BRE was arrested. The blame should be thrown at the people who were in charge back then & leading up to BRE arrest who already had all of this information. Carl talks big these days about the errors made but he was freaking in charge well before BRE was arrested

 

[zedx]

Regarding the HH attack, obviously the Judge at the time felt it was a sexually motivated attack on Wendy (because he sent BRE to do a sex offenders course), could the Judge have not asked the Police to change the charges from common assault to sexual assault or something similar? or is a Judge not allowed to ask that?

can any one out there answer this? Jezza?

 

[javaguice]

can any one out there answer this? Jezza?

JezzaPerth seems like he is busy today...

 

[ms finch]

I don't remember where I read it but it was reported that a victim who was then & now living in Tasmania saw the reports regarding the CSK, went to police in Tasmania & made a statement telling them about her own attack nearby. It wasn't until BRE was arrested that the same person contacted Perth police & it seemed that her statement never made it to MACRO. So to answer your questions, he HH victim DID go to police about it when it was first happening but her statement never made it to the right people OR.... It did but W.A. MACRO didn't want the sh*t storm it has now received back then & now. They messed up & they new it but perhaps wanted the HH story left out to look like they covered everything when they didn't. They needed her for trial though so her story eventually came out.
I kind of feel for Dawson, he wasn't the man in charge for all of those years.He's only been in charge since Mcgowen put him there. He wasn't even in charge when BRE was arrested. The blame should be thrown at the people who were in charge back then & leading up to BRE arrest who already had all of this information. Carl talks big these days about the errors made but he was freaking in charge well before BRE was arrested

I think this relates to the woman who accepted a lift from Claremont to Innaloo and then was sneaked up on once out of the car and “judo chopped” him. She was visiting Perth from Tasmania.

Wendy said in the interview that the first she knew of anything at all was when police called her two days before Edwards’ arrest to talk in detail about the HH incident. She didn’t even known then what it was about. They then called the morning of his arrest and told her.

 

[javaguice]

If Telstra did a little bit of work...they could have linked that BRE had this hidden charge of aggravated assault or whatever it was, did a sex offender course as a result (dont know if they had access to that info - where else on earth do you keep your job??) and was driving VS commodores when asked.

Telstra have so much to answer for. I would love it if they would address the public and explain their actions. The decision makers are all probably retired but they should have to answer a few questions..

 

[ms finch]

can any one out there answer this? Jezza?

No, the judge can’t unilaterally alter the charges. The judge could say something like, “Does the prosecution want to reconsider the charges here?” which would be a strong hint, but they can’t actually force it.

In the event a plea agreement is struck between prosecution and defence, the judge can refuse to accept it, but that is extraordinarily rare.

In instances where the judge thinks the charges are too soft, the best they can do is look at giving as harsh a sentence as possible.

 

[ms finch]

If Telstra did a little bit of work...they could have linked that BRE had this hidden charge of aggravated assault or whatever it was, did a sex offender course as a result (dont know if they had access to that info - where else on earth do you keep your job??) and was driving VS commodores when asked.

Telstra have so much to answer for. I would love it if they would address the public and explain their actions. The decision makers are all probably retired but they should have to answer a few questions..

I want to know if they deliberately left his name off the list requested by police. I think they should be investigating exactly who complied that list.

 

[zedx]

No, the judge can’t unilaterally alter the charges. The judge could say something like, “Does the prosecution want to reconsider the charges here?” which would be a strong hint, but they can’t actually force it.

In the event a plea agreement is struck between prosecution and defence, the judge can refuse to accept it, but that is extraordinarily rare.

In instances where the judge thinks the charges are too soft, the best they can do is look at giving as harsh a sentence as possible.

thanks, yes I understand the Judge cant change the charges, but I was wondering if he could say to the police "I don't believe this is the correct charge could you change it?"

 

[ms finch]

thanks, yes I understand the Judge cant change the charges, but I was wondering if he could say to the police "I don't believe this is the correct charge could you change it?"

No, the judge couldn’t be as direct as that. They would have to use language that is a bit more subtle:
“Would you like to have another look at the charge?”
“Can you confirm the charges are definitely correct?”
“Do the police want to reconsider the charges?”

 

[JezzaPerth]

can any one out there answer this? Jezza?

JezzaPerth seems like he is busy today...

I'm here, but standing down now from a bit of work.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is the judge is driven by the prosecution. The judge might suggest a different charge, but its ultimately up to the prosecutor. The judge obviously can reject the charge before them as framed, but in that case they could perhaps ask the prosecutor to have another go on a later date? Not sure.

This is solely based on my sitting in Magistrates Courts in W.A. and being highly amused by the Magistrates' wide range of powers being dispensed in a generally good natured way. I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of arguments between the police prosecutor and the magistrate.

 

[javaguice]

Its weird...one of the vivid memories I have about this case is going into work with my old man when I was 16/17. We took the stairs at 251 St Georges Tce - he worked for Clough and there was one of those Ciara Glennon missing posters on all the doors.

Telstra owned the first 4 floors of the building. I wonder if BRE ever took those stairs and had seen the photos.

 

[JezzaPerth]

I'm not sure if this has any relevance/connec but I noticed Marsha Johnson was murdered on a Monday 1997, Gerard Ross on a Tuesday 1997 and Julie Cutler 1988 vanished in the AM on a Monday.

These unsolved crimes may have no connection whatsoever but .. they're all along the coastline from Cottesloe to Rockingham when the Edwards holidayed on weekends at Madora Bay.

I guess police would be checking on his RDOs if he got those and holidays.

The only pattern I found was all the attacks were after the streetlights were turned off (except main highways), and in the case of Ciara and KK the moon had already set. In the case of Jane it was last quarter moon rising in the east on a rainy night when she disappeared.

 

[zedx]

I'm here, but standing down now from a bit of work.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is the judge is driven by the prosecution. The judge might suggest a different charge, but its ultimately up to the prosecutor. The judge obviously can reject the charge before them as framed, but in that case they could perhaps ask the prosecutor to have another go on a later date? Not sure.

This is solely based on my sitting in Magistrates Courts in W.A. and being highly amused by the Magistrates' wide range of powers being dispensed in a generally good natured way. I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of arguments between the police prosecutor and the magistrate.

Thanks Jezza, so we (I) can only assume the Judge decided it was not important enough to attempt to have the charges changed and just went for the easiest way out by sending BRE on sex offenders course.

 

[BFew]

The only pattern I found was all the attacks were after the streetlights were turned off (except main highways), and in the case of Ciara and KK the moon had already set.

Except for the 1990 Hollywood Hospital 2pm in broad daylight attack on a weekday.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Except for the 1990 Hollywood Hospital 2pm in broad daylight attack on a weekday.

The moon was 21 degrees below the horizon at 2pm...