Analysis Adam Kelly is a fraud

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The next day...


The way I see it, the market deemed Brad Crouch's worth and deemed it less than us supporters expected.

Kelly shot his mouth off with a similar value in mind. Had no fall back plan in the event the offer would not trigger band 1 other than to go to the Saints cap in hand and ask for their first rounder.
No other club wanted him, the Saints did not want to spend a pick on him. Given the contract triggered band 3 ( not band 2, so the AFL did not "rob us" with the formula), they certainly don't seem him as a first round trade value.

If we matched he would be a Crow next year or go to the Saints via PSD. No trade would have happened.

My issue is with Kelly, talking tough without reading/knowing Crouch's worth in the market. As the GM of Footy.Ops he should have an idea and indeed a bit of a plan to involve other clubs in a trade scenario to make the "Pick 2 or match" call in public.

This is the mistake the club (Kelly) made.

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feenix67 said:
Nah you're wrong - the market didn't set Brad at Band 3. St Kilda set him at Band 3 in the way they structured his deal.

At the heart of all this is our assumption that the three parties were, in fact, working together to get a win/win/win outcome. But this wasnt the case. I was certainly fooled, and Im not ashamed to admit it. Im more shocked that it seems Im a glass half full guy...

Just think about it - in pretty much every other FA situation, the receiving club has to overpay to get the player, to avoid a match and entice him over. But we managed, over the course of the last two years, to get ourselves into a situation where St Kilda knew they didnt have to overpay. Immediately this allows the Saints to manipulate their deal to not only incentivise it to mitigate risk, but also drop it in the zone where they know Adelaide wont want to match it, by making it 5 years. And as a bonus, they avoid giving Adelaide pick 2 and thus a competitive advantage.

It's such a laughable situation that even I assumed our guys couldnt be that stupid, and that a deal was being worked out behind the scenes.

The laughable thing about your post is that you think Brad is getting a band 3 contract - he's not. If he plays well and keeps his nose clean he will make $700k for the next 5 years. Sound like Band 3 compo to you?
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That sounds like a broken system that needs to include performance based triggers into compo calcs, or remove them as part of the contract a club needs to match, can’t just have it one way.
 
Western Stand Warrior said:
I agree, his why risk it for 6 positions could have been said on Monday morning after announcing we wouldn't match.

Not, 5 o'clock on Wednesday after a couple of weeks of tough talking but ultimately campilulating with a whimper.
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That’s the biggest failure here, I would’ve understood that, especially if they hadn’t just said pick 2 or match
 

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WeedsMullet84 said:
After sleeping on it, this is my take.

The Kelly comments around matching the offer was not a deception aimed towards the fans, it was an attempt to bluff Saints, albeit a poor one.

No doubt all of the list management group and management would have been across him making those comments.

It begs the question why Kelly is coming out as the face of our list management strategies. Perhaps he has done so knowing he would take the heat off Reid and others if the strategy was not to pan out, which is admirable to an extent.

According the Kelly when Saints submitted their offer they canvassed every other club about taking Crouch if they were to match. Not a single club said they would.

Brad's manager would have communicated to the Saints that we were never going to offer 5 years.

With no other clubs entering the ring, Kelly was right in saying this considerably weakened our position. The risk of having Brad on the list for 5 years @ $700-$800k with incentives must have outweighed the risk of gaining a few extra spots on the ladder.

I think it was fine for us to explore our options with other clubs in the last few days, although communication with the fans could have been much better, although again we were kind of backed into a corner there.

The list management and Kelly now have the trade period and Draft to at least claw back some modicum of respect.
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It also shows that only one club out of 18 were prepared to offer Brad 5 years, I can’t imagine money was the problem for any club, it’s giving 5 years to someone who’s missed as many games as he’s played.
 
BACCS said:
It also shows that only one club out of 18 were prepared to offer Brad 5 years, I can’t imagine money was the problem for any club, it’s giving 5 years to someone who’s missed as many games as he’s played.
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Is that the sounding bites the club fed you this morning?
 
I cannot believe there are actually some of our supporters in here willing to defend, and make excuses, for this useless piece of excrement.

He, and those around him at the club, are a total laughing stock.

This is a failure of epic proportions from a bunch of dumb *s who’s massive ego’s have obviously helped them talk their way, with bullshit, into employment positions that they do not have the experience, ability or acumen to adequately perform in.

There is no defending this utter incompetence.
 
Sanders said:
false logic. We don’t know what other offers he had
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Rowie said this morning the talk that there was a lack of interest is bogus.

Why anyone would believe one word from the club now when they’ve just been exposed as liars is beyond me, then again it isn’t. Plenty of foolish supporters who lap up what ever the club comes up with.
 
BACCS said:
That’s the biggest failure here, I would’ve understood that, especially if they hadn’t just said pick 2 or match
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I'm assuming, as they've indicated in the last media conference, that they used those days to try and canvas other clubs about taking Crouch IF they were to match the bid.
Apparently no other clubs were interested in coughing up draft picks.

I have to wonder whether the Treloar situation has muddied the waters for us.
 
Geoffa32 said:
The next day...


The way I see it, the market deemed Brad Crouch's worth and deemed it less than us supporters expected.

Kelly shot his mouth off with a similar value in mind. Had no fall back plan in the event the offer would not trigger band 1 other than to go to the Saints cap in hand and ask for their first rounder.
No other club wanted him, the Saints did not want to spend a pick on him. Given the contract triggered band 3 ( not band 2, so the AFL did not "rob us" with the formula), they certainly don't seem him as a first round trade value.

If we matched he would be a Crow next year or go to the Saints via PSD. No trade would have happened.

My issue is with Kelly, talking tough without reading/knowing Crouch's worth in the market. As the GM of Footy.Ops he should have an idea and indeed a bit of a plan to involve other clubs in a trade scenario to make the "Pick 2 or match" call in public.

This is the mistake the club (Kelly) made.

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Click to expand...

If no one else wants him, it's OUR job to increase his value to get adequate compensation

Going soft and admitting we don't want him is setting us up to fail from the start. It left St Kilda with a 1 club monopoly and they exploited it to our detriment
 
WeedsMullet84 said:
I'm assuming, as they've indicated in the last media conference, that they used those days to try and canvas other clubs about taking Crouch IF they were to match the bid.
Apparently no other clubs were interested in coughing up draft picks.

I have to wonder whether the Treloar situation has muddied the waters for us.
Click to expand...
Then it really just begs the question that if they wanted Brad gone so badly, why did they roll out that strategy?
 

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St Kilda now has two injury ridden hacks with Crouch and Hannerberry.....both will be gone in under 2 years....good drafting...I don’t think so.
 
SaltPeter said:
Then it really just begs the question that if they wanted Brad gone so badly, why did they roll out that strategy?
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Because Pick 2 seemed like a possibility. Saints came in and threw a spanner in the works by offering a contract heavily laden with incentives/triggers, which based on other RFA offers seems to have been an unforeseeable event.

Smart move by Saints protecting themselves if Crouch proves to be not so durable, and they would have known the AFL would assess compensation based on guaranteed wage only, whereas we had to match all of the triggers/incentives.

If another club had come in and offered that guaranteed money for Band 1 then happy days, but they didn't.

We had a lot of things working against us:

1) The market dictated Crouch's contract offers during the FA period, and Saints had the best offer....
2) The AFL's compensation system is flawed in not being flexible in assessing the likelihood of attaining triggers/incentives, and taking them into account.
3) Brad's desire to get to a new club
4) Other desirable players available on the market if the deal fell through
5) The market dictated that there were minimal, if any, offers post RFA period if the Crows were to match.
 
WeedsMullet84 said:
Because Pick 2 seemed like a possibility. Saints came in and threw a spanner in the works by offer a contract heavily laden with incentives/triggers.

Smart move by them protecting themselves if Crouch proves to be not so durable, and they would have known the AFL would assess compensation based on guaranteed wage only, whereas we had to match all of the triggers/incentives.

If another club had come in and offered that guaranteed money for Band 1 then happy days, but they didn't.

We had a lot of things working against us:
1) The market dictated Crouch's contract offers, which were minimal
2) The AFL's compensation system is flawed in not being flexible in assessing the likelihood of attaining triggers/incentives, and taking them into account.
3) Brad's desire to get to a new club
4) Other desirable players available on the market if the deal fell through
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Move past that, and think about the strategy of sitting on it for 3 days and just letting the matching period expire without a whimper.

If they never had any intention of matching, Kelly's public messaging should have simply been something like 'we'll wait to see what St Kilda's contract offer is and the compensation before making a decision on whether or not to match the contract'

Not a whole different to what he actually said, however they then could've justified looking to other clubs for trade opportunities and wasting the 3 days before folding
 
Scorpus said:
If no one else wants him, it's OUR job to increase his value to get adequate compensation

Going soft and admitting we don't want him is setting us up to fail from the start. It left St Kilda with a 1 club monopoly and they exploited it to our detriment
Click to expand...
How do we add value?

16 other clubs could have offered a better contract. Sounds like they didn't

I bet his management were trying to increase that contract worth.

His manager also failed.



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rabidcrow said:
Nothing wrong with the compo pick system. He just didn’t attract an offer that we thought he would/should. It just shows what damage has been done to our players reputations throughout the industry over the last 3 years

And 23 from the club perspective was rubbish. Missed opportunity


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How do you know that? The packages are not made public. How can Daniher be band 1? I don’t believe that the system is fairly administered to all clubs until I can see how they do it .
 
1970crow said:
Who says nobody else wanted him? Wouldn't be the same people who were going to sit down with all his FA offers? Don't tell me they still think they get them all and the one they were given was the only one tabled to Brad. sh*t, you don't still believe that yourself?
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I don't think anyone wanted him at 5 years other than St Kilda.

Clubs wanted him for sure, but the length of tenure was the killer.
 
Just wondering if anyone here has worked or experienced the inner sanctum of an AFL club. No....didn't think so.

Actually, I think I saw someone in an other thread say they had, but the rest of us haven't.

We were always going to get reamed on this. The reaction from most on here is laughable.

Brad has played 95 games. How many times has he got 3 Brownlow votes in those games?? Two times.

The market set his price about right. Kelly did all he could. He cant move the market.

Someone in the club a few years ago mentioned organic growth. Look at the young players that show something last season.

We have young players that will at least equal Brads output.

Move on.
 
Bernie L said:
Just wondering if anyone here has worked or experienced the inner sanctum of an AFL club. No....didn't think so.

Actually, I think I saw someone in an other thread say they had, but the rest of us haven't.

We were always going to get reamed on this. The reaction from most on here is laughable.

Brad has played 95 games. How many times has he got 3 Brownlow votes in those games?? Two times.

The market set his price about right. Kelly did all he could. He cant move the market.

Someone in the club a few years ago mentioned organic growth. Look at the young players that show something last season.

We have young players that will at least equal Brads output.

Move on.
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Our club and many supporters (including me) over rated Brad Crouch's worth.

The market spoke and set his worth.

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SaltPeter said:
Move past that, and think about the strategy of sitting on it for 3 days and just letting the matching period expire without a whimper.

If they never had any intention of matching, Kelly's public messaging should have simply been something like 'we'll wait to see what St Kilda's contract offer is and the compensation before making a decision on whether or not to match the contract'

Not a whole different to what he actually said, however they then could've justified looking to other clubs for trade opportunities and wasting the 3 days before folding
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure how to expand on my previous points any clearer, but I'll give it a crack.

They used those 3 days to try and canvas other clubs about taking Crouch if they were to match.

Canvassing those clubs would have gotten back to Saints and further solidified their belief that there was no way a fall back option was to match and keep him ourselves.
 
Geoffa32 said:
How do we add value?

16 other clubs could have offered a better contract. Sounds like they didn't

I bet his management were trying to increase that contract worth.

His manager also failed.



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Click to expand...

We have no leverage until we match. Until we match, he's a signed player for St Kilda with the playing contract lodged at AFL House. Brad had already been shopped around and selected his preferred contract under the free agency system. Until we match, Brad isn't back on the market under the ordinary uncontracted player conditions. But, what happens is that clubs recalibrate, Saints included to take into account the need to use draft asset(s). End result is that any discussion require 3 things to happen, we match, Brad declines our contract, Brad speaks to the club in question. Nobody is wasting their time until we've matched and nobody is doing us favours.
 
WeedsMullet84 said:
I'm really not sure how to expand on my previous points any clearer, but I'll give it a crack.

They used those 3 days to try and canvas other clubs about taking Crouch if they were to match.

Canvassing those clubs would have gotten back to Saints and further solidified their belief that there was no way a fall back option was to match and keep him ourselves.
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I understand that .. my point is about the club coming out with combative rhetoric and then back pedalling and rolling over for a tummy scratch.
 
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