Universal Love David Teague

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Arr0w said:
So Bolton had to be sacked for unexpected/unacceptable losses ( we know senior coach is generally the fall guy for impatient clubs, unlike Tiger, Cats), but we should sack Barker, even though the buck stops with the senior coach?

Perhaps we should have kept Bolton and sacked Barker?
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Barker is the only constant in all our failures .

sometimes you have to clean out the whole fridge to get rid of the smell
 
I am not stating that Teague is coaching lights out. There are issues, some of his making. Chase the messiah is not the answer. Good old fashioned in season adjustments are the order of the day for this season.

End of season our ruck situation must be addressed. Nankervis and Brody killed us the last two weeks.
 
17SetMeFree said:
Barker is the only constant in all our failures .

sometimes you have to clean out the whole fridge to get rid of the smell
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Will say again, other clubs were just patient and continued to evolve

Lastly and not directed at you or anyone here, but how the * do any of us know how good or bad an assistant is, unless you are in the inner sanctum
 

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Some good candidates for the chicken little thread in here.

I haven't been able to catch the games, so I'm admittedly coming at this with a whole lot less emotion than some.

In any case, I'd be looking at his underlings before throwing Teague under his own train. Barker has been a constant concern for those observing from the outside it seems, which pains me to say because he too seems a truly lovely wholesome guy. But maybe he's loved a little too much internally and it's masking his lacking in coaching work.

I dunno, anyway it's literally only Round 2 of the season. Long, long way to go yet. If people are gonna throw the toys out of the cot now, y'all are in for some pain.
 
dlb99 said:
Our midfield currently sucks.
Our team generally is not that bad. Fwd and back are holding up reasonably well.

Bolton was a terrible coach who lost the team after the GWS game. Best decision club has made in the three years to get rid of him.

We have lost by 4 goals to the premier team and a perennial finals team. Its a downer but not a disaster. Definite weak points and certain weak players.

Keep Teague. Get rid of Barker. Bolster ruck and mids. We don’t need to start from scratch.
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I think the only reason Teague got the job was because Barker supported him as well as the play on SOS and Bolton. Teaguy has a few debts on his ledger and not enough credits in the bank to do anything much except chair coach's meetings and MC meetings - where consensus is more important than anything else. Team decision-making committee this and unified face for the marketing team to be able to sell promise is the formula.

Teague is also pretty inexperienced with midfield play - relying on a text book Barker and Stanton for the most important part of any team is a bit of a stretch.

However, Teague would have not much input into who his coaching team will be.

These are just my idle thoughts on the backroom situation at Carlton.
 
Arr0w said:
So Bolton had to be sacked for unexpected/unacceptable losses ( we know senior coach is generally the fall guy for impatient clubs, unlike Tiger, Cats), but we should sack Barker, even though the buck stops with the senior coach?

Perhaps we should have kept Bolton and sacked Barker?
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Clubs that successfully persevered with their senior coach did so by having the appropriate support around them - and in Richmond's case, shaking those structures up after a comprehensive review.

We've been all at sea since Neil Craig left - and yes, it is absolutely possible to judge coaching performance from outside the club.
 
El Topo said:
Clubs that successfully persevered with their senior coach did so by having the appropriate support around them. We've been all at sea since Neil Craig left.
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Possibly, but that didn't translate to wins either, nor should it be viewed that way.

I get that people are frustrated, but we are 2 games in.

Calling for staff to be sacked, or players to be sent to pergtory is premature
 
JustaBattler said:
Teague is also pretty inexperienced with midfield play - relying on a text book Barker and Stanton for the most important part of any team is a bit of a stretch.
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Not every coach is an expert on every line. Chris Fagan for example.

Teague may well be weak with respect to the engine room, if so it is up to the footy department to address the weaknesses if Teague is bringing other benefits to the table (aka fwd and back).
 
Arr0w said:
Will say again, other clubs were just patient and continued to evolve

Lastly and not directed at you or anyone here, but how the fu** do any of us know how good or bad an assistant is, unless you are in the inner sanctum
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Agree with evolution and time.
Agree we are all outsiders - but outsiders can (over time) collect facts and data to paint a picture of competence or not. I think the picture is getting pretty clear:

1. Performance relative to your opponents and repeat errors are the key indicators. Over time the evidence mounts up - far too many goal run ons from the opposition over far too much time now - huge negative indicator.
2. Coaches pick the team they think can execute on their game plan - I think they continue to invest in a few huge liabilities as players.
3. We were outcoached (again) last night - Collingwood did more - with less.
4. The out coaching is seen in who the coaches 'invest in' in terms of players as well as how well they understand what is needed to do to beat the opposition on any day.

I agree players can make a coaching team - but if a coaching team is really poor- doesn't matter who the players are- eg GWS.
 
Arr0w said:
Will say again, other clubs were just patient and continued to evolve

Lastly and not directed at you or anyone here, but how the fu** do any of us know how good or bad an assistant is, unless you are in the inner sanctum
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by the result on the scoreboard , every week, every year
 
dlb99 said:
Not every coach is an expert on every line. Chris Fagan for example.

Teague may well be weak with respect to the engine room, if so it is up to the footy department to address the weaknesses if Teague is bringing other benefits to the table (aka fwd and back).
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Totally agree- and that is my point. However, changes to coaching staff in particular good assistants don't happen mid year and the cost of carrying ineptitude is a compounding cost.
 

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Arr0w said:
But Barker isn't head coach is he
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No he isn't, but he's the most experienced there and clearly has aspirations to coach.(senior)
He would be caretaker if teague were to be terminated. Perhaps your answer might be there
 
JustaBattler said:
Totally agree- and that is my point. However, changes to coaching staff in particular good assistants don't happen mid year and the cost of carrying ineptitude is a compounding cost.
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I am not sure about our coaching soft cap situation, but I can’t help but feel it is a reason that Barker has persisted. Ideally he should have gone last season. Certain assistant coaches need to churn ever couple years. Barker is way past due.
 
JustaBattler said:
Agree with evolution and time.
Agree we are all outsiders - but outsiders can (over time) collect facts and data to paint a picture of competence or not. I think the picture is getting pretty clear:

1. Performance relative to your opponents and repeat errors are the key indicators. Over time the evidence mounts up - far too many goal run ons from the opposition over far too much time now - huge negative indicator.
2. Coaches pick the team they think can execute on their game plan - I think they continue to invest in a few huge liabilities as players.
3. We were outcoached (again) last night - Collingwood did more - with less.
4. The out coaching is seen in who the coaches 'invest in' in terms of players as well as how well they understand what is needed to do to beat the opposition on any day.

I agree players can make a coaching team - but if a coaching team is really poor- doesn't matter who the players are- eg GWS.
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I agree with all of that, but Teague is the leader of the strategy

Let's use a hypothetical

You are a business owner/leader, Jab

You don't instruct your department heads "go make it work/successful"

You are the one that sets the strategy, the plan to achieve the outcomes you want/needed and the adaptability measures when faced with possible, but know speedhumps.
 
dlb99 said:
I am not sure about our coaching soft cap situation, but I can’t help but feel it is a reason that Barker has persisted. Ideally he should have gone last season. Certain assistant coaches need to churn ever couple years. Barker is way past due.
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He has survived a number of coaches - as has Murphy. For anyone that has had to endure Corporate life or run large businesses like I have - it is pretty easy to see who the political players are in organisations - the people who survive for extended periods despite organisational underperformance. there is a chance I could be wrong about Barker and Murphy - a very slim chance.

There is nothing to laud over long erm service if it also associated with underperformance.
 
My Two Cents:

A good manager won't micro manage but they will set the strategy and plan (How we want to play) - David Teague.
Implementation tasks will be allocated out to key staff, who will evaluate and propose the best solution (How each area structures & setups) - Our line coaches.
The plan will be reviewed and approved for implementation by the Manager - David Teague.
The plan implementation will be executed by the key team support staff - (output for each implementation will also be evaluated at key points) - Our line coaches & Manager
Success of the implemented task will be evaluated against budget/timelines - (wins/losses).

Watching us execute the plan we are either failing at the execution of each task or the overall strategy and plan. IMHO - it's the execution of each task - ruck /clearances, midfield setups, midfield/forward integration and forward line setups.
 
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iAsbestos said:
His Coaching needs to be looked at. Again played way to loose in defense and not manning their forwards our defenders got killed. Plowman copped 7 goals kicked on him surely he can't stay in the side. Teauge to slow to make changes getting killed in clearances Teauge doesn't move the magnets just has the same on in the middle. Setters literally unsighted on the wing why play him on the wing when we're losing the tackling count he's a gun inside midfielder who loves a cuddle.
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it's starting to stick out like a sore thumb now isn't it?

take aways from last night live were:

- Setterfield on the wing - Crisp dominated him, no change was made. we're killing Setterfield like we have SPS. He should have been deployed to the middle and Walsh sent to the wing even for 15 minutes to break Crisps strangle hold on that wing. didn't happen.
- Plowman got taken to the goal square - was getting torched on the lead and one on one, no change was made, team defense not instructed to fill gaps until after half time clearly as the middle of the ground was wide open in the first half, the end result 71 points on the board in a half from a team who can't score most weeks.
- Collingwood defence was resolute in the 3rd - we couldn't score we just kept bombing it in and played into their hands. where was the instruction to kick the ball flat into the f50. this bomb and hope doesn't work against teams with intercept quality. Our forward entries are a disgrace and have been for years.
- Dumb footballers making same mistakes every few weeks. this is on the coaches. Jones for example needs some tough loving, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms what his limitations are and what to do. He constantly punches balls back into traffic and it costs goals, the De Goey one last night was unacceptable for a supposed league quality defender. the other one where he should have marked but punched it to Daicos from memory and ended up in a goal. he's obviously thick, tell him he's thick and then tell him what he needs to do, drill it in to him.

All this bring your strengths positivity has got to be balanced with some rules on game day, some magnet flipping if things aren't going well. For 3 quarters last night it didn't go well and it takes too long to change things.

Setterfield has to be on the ball, SPS has to be up the ground, Cunningham as frustrating and inconsistent as he is has all the tools to run up and down the wing at AFL level, why is he not there?

It's all well and good to go ballistic and attack all game, but when you get the ball to forward 50 don't boot it 10m in the air, lower your eyes and hit a lead up player, create some confusion every one or two entries. Also when things aren't going well and the opposition is running hot, drop the defensive system back a bit, help Plowman out don't leave 45m open space in front of him for short people to just lead in to the ball.

We're not well coached at the moment, it might look good on the eye for a quarter or two but we are real easy to play against for long periods in games and the group is too well developed now physically to let that happen.
 
Arr0w said:
I agree with all of that, but Teague is the leader of the strategy

Let's use a hypothetical

You are a business owner/leader, Jab

You don't instruct your department heads "go make it work/successful"

You are the one that sets the strategy, the plan to achieve the outcomes you want/needed and the adaptability measures when faced with possible, but know speedhumps.
Click to expand...

we can only speculate on how much real control over strategy teague has...


I don't think Teague has the power or authority or track record of a person like me - and it makes a difference to how he can act and be.
I own my business 100% so no one can sack me except my clients - and I often sack clients if their expectations don't fit with my investment philosophy.

I doubt that Teague is in control of everything - but I agree it is he who is set up for the fall - that is how it works with coaches and CEO's who are employees.

Carlton has to figure out what needs improving in terms of managing its players and game plan and execution - really fast - because the players are there for finals- no doubt about that.

All that needs to happen is to focus on some basics and make sure that they are 100% non-negotiables - starting with tackling pressure it is a worry and concern that the platform for success - one on one tackling ability has neve been developed at Carlton.
 
Arr0w said:
Teague won't go mid season, so if a change is made, they will target externally end of year
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0-5 and you know what the members are like.
They will never accept worse than last year with 2 big signings
The conditioning via the coach and Lidell is finals or there abouts
 
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