Preview Rd 6 Carlton v Brisbane - Saturday 24th April 4.35PM @ Marvel Stadium - Team Post #964

[bigdog43]

The most glaring and obvious hindrance we have right now is intensity. We don't tackle, we don't harrass we don't run hard both ways and it makes every single player's job harder than it needs to be. Forwards get terrible entries, mids get burnt and defenders get caught out all because we don't play hard enough. Without that trust that players are going to work both ways it creates confusion and panic which results in poor skills.

For years we have played blokes out of position. SPS is our best kick inside 50, he kicks it to the forwards advantage softly, so he needs to be forward of the ball, not in a back pocket. Cuningham was terrific in the midfield against Essendon all those years ago, but we play him half forward now. Setterfield looked a decent midfielder, but we stick him on a wing. Williamson had mongrel and dash but now it's gone. Betts, Curnow, Casboult and Murphy should not be in this team anymore. So frustrating.

 

[Cringle]

Cunners on the wing ???

SPS on the wing ??

Do you know what the wing role is ? Maybe SPS half forward flank - but wing - no chance.

Cunners is a pure midfielder.

Shuffling the magnets around

 

[TENACIOUS]

How is Sam Ramsay getting a game ?

Been playing well in reserves, give him a taste of seniors

• Fast
• Excels at tackling
• Excellent disposal
• Accumulator

All thing that we are crying out for.. Might be slight in stature, but so are many others getting a game in the AFL

 

[Iamcarlton]

McGov was always meant to be a swing man. I would love to see him pushing up the ground from the back dominating their defensive 50 exits in the air.

When in form McGov offers a huge upside - I genuinely wonder how much the injuries have affected his game.

Like your optimism on Mcgovern but getting quite sick of the huge upside i keep seeing quoted on him .
When are we going to see it because it certainly hasnt been at Carlton .
Really dont care about who is available or not the bloke plays with very little intensity and quite frankly should not have been picked of the back of 1 full game in the reserves .

 

[Coops93]

360 talked about us last night, as I'm sure we all know, and they mentioned the talk backs and feedback that's come in about Carltons problems and how it seems right now like everything is a problem. I think that's right on the money.

The players aren't good enough
Teagues gameplan isn't good enough
The drafting has been bad
The player development has been bad
The effort from the players has been bad
The match committee picking teams has been bad
The assistant coaches are bad
The depth is bad
The injury management is bad
The leadership is bad (captains, leadership group)

I'm not saying necessarily that they're all accurate statements, but normally you'd be able to strike a few of those off the list and bring it down to a couple of more specific things. Right now you really could make the case for all of those things being wrong. You can't confidently dismiss any of them.

This week I'd like us to put lines through a few of this and show that ok it's not this and it's not that. That way we can start to see how we move forward and start to look for signs of turning it around.

The easiest ones I think would be:

Leadership - We know Cripps and Doc are better than what they showed last week, Doc in particular. Those drops were uncharacteristic for him. If he clunks those and Cripps goes back to doing what he does best, doing the dirty work on the inside, then that'll go a long to way to answering this question.

Effort - Show some intensity boys. The fans don't mind losing as much if you can see the lads put in a proper shift. Fans can accept doing your best and falling short, but fans will never accept half efforts.

Match Committee - Pretty self explanatory, we've been crying out on this board for changes all year. If you bring in Stocker and Cunners, and they play well, that'll go some way to showing that player development isn't as bad as perhaps we think right now. So it has 2 benefits. It doesn't answer development, but it brings some visibility to it.


Those are all things that can be answered in this week and would give us a reason to get optimistic, even if we don't get the win.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

360 talked about us last night, as I'm sure we all know, and they mentioned the talk backs and feedback that's come in about Carltons problems and how it seems right now like everything is a problem. I think that's right on the money.

The players aren't good enough
Teagues gameplan isn't good enough
The drafting has been bad
The player development has been bad
The effort from the players has been bad
The match committee picking teams has been bad
The assistant coaches are bad
The depth is bad
The injury management is bad
The leadership is bad (captains, leadership group)

I'm not saying necessarily that they're all accurate statements, but normally you'd be able to strike a few of those off the list and bring it down to a couple of more specific things. Right now you really could make the case for all of those things being wrong. You can't confidently dismiss any of them.

This week I'd like us to put lines through a few of this and show that ok it's not this and it's not that. That way we can start to see how we move forward and start to look for signs of turning it around.

The easiest ones I think would be:

Leadership - We know Cripps and Doc are better than what they showed last week, Doc in particular. Those drops were uncharacteristic for him. If he clunks those and Cripps goes back to doing what he does best, doing the dirty work on the inside, then that'll go a long to way to answering this question.

Effort - Show some intensity boys. The fans don't mind losing as much if you can see the lads put in a proper shift. Fans can accept doing your best and falling short, but fans will never accept half efforts.

Match Committee - Pretty self explanatory, we've been crying out on this board for changes all year. If you bring in Stocker and Cunners, and they play well, that'll go some way to showing that player development isn't as bad as perhaps we think right now. So it has 2 benefits. It doesn't answer development, but it brings some visibility to it.


Those are all things that can be answered in this week and would give us a reason to get optimistic, even if we don't get the win.

Effort comes from culture and culture is driven by the coach and captains and this club seems to have effort issues a lot, going back to the 'we got ahead of ourselves' comment after a loss and then an embarrassing loss to 2 out of 5 games this year with sub par effort. The leadership isn't good enough. Good leaders don't allow culture of near enough is good enough a d they certainly don't allow poor efforts as often as we see them - example Newnes in the 4th quarter, I'm sure everyone's seen that footage floating round. Just shouldn't happen.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

If cas H mcgov Jsos Martin are all fit and available do mcgov and Jsos both play or are they competing for same position?

JSOS over Gov, any day of the week.

Mcgovern has been extremely poor for 1.5 years, I hope that changes soon, but looking fairly grim for $700,000+ and another 3 years to go.

Why you would target him when he was well known to be injured a lot at Adelaide.

Jack Martin + Mcgov on 1.3+ million a season, Jack Martin kicked 12 goals last year..

When your highest paid players put that out and someone like JSOS provides immeasurably more, its sad to see.

Williams too, as I said in the autopsy I would hope Williams lifts massively and that was just an outlier.

As if not that's 2.1+ million dollars on 3 average players at this time.

Would be nice to see the players go out and earn every cent and not be the Carlton retirement village.

 

[Coops93]

JSOS over Gov, any day of the week.

Mcgovern has been extremely poor for 1.5 years, I hope that changes soon, but looking fairly grim for $700,000+ and another 3 years to go.

Why you would target him when he was well known to be injured a lot at Adelaide.

Jack Martin + Mcgov on 1.3+ million a season, Jack Martin kicked 12 goals last year..

When your highest paid players put that out and someone like JSOS provides immeasurably more, its sad to see.

Williams too, as I said in the autopsy I would hope Williams lifts massively and that was just an outlier.

As if not that's 2.1+ million dollars on 3 average players at this time.

Would be nice to see the players go out and earn every cent and not be the Carlton retirement village.

It's pretty remarkable how different we look with JSOS in the side. He's not a big possession/goal kicker but his tenacity makes a tangible difference to our team.

 

[NumberEight]

AFL member tickets are supposd to go on sale at 10am....i cant for the life of me find a link for that. Anyone else having this issue?

 

[Red_man2008]

The most glaring and obvious hindrance we have right now is intensity. We don't tackle, we don't harrass we don't run hard both ways and it makes every single player's job harder than it needs to be. Forwards get terrible entries, mids get burnt and defenders get caught out all because we don't play hard enough. Without that trust that players are going to work both ways it creates confusion and panic which results in poor skills.

For years we have played blokes out of position. SPS is our best kick inside 50, he kicks it to the forwards advantage softly, so he needs to be forward of the ball, not in a back pocket. Cuningham was terrific in the midfield against Essendon all those years ago, but we play him half forward now. Setterfield looked a decent midfielder, but we stick him on a wing. Williamson had mongrel and dash but now it's gone. Betts, Curnow, Casboult and Murphy should not be in this team anymore. So frustrating.

This might have something to do with a hard game in those conditions up on the Gold Coast compounded with a 6 day break, injuries to key positions while carrying others who are hampered and a few coming back blowing out the cobwebs. I think we will see a different side at Etihad off the week break. I doubt the boys trained with any intensity mid week last week.

 

[FRUMPY]

We may well show up for this one given the hammering we’re copping in the media.
Bring in Stocker please. He’s paid his dues in the 2s and deserves his chance. His skills look crisp from what I’ve seen in the highlights. We know he’s willing to attack the ball and ball carrier.
Bring in Cunners too - we need players who can consistently hit targets

Cuningham's disposal by foot at AFL level leaves a bit to be desired i reckon - doesnt steady up enough before kicking and misses the target quite often, especially f50 entries

 

[FRUMPY]

RESTED, Why? Don’t want to hurt his feelings ?
Just drop him ffs

exactly, its that kid of bullshit that has us in this situation

 

[Coops93]

Cuningham's disposal by foot at AFL level leaves a bit to be desired i reckon - doesnt steady up enough before kicking and misses the target quite often, especially f50 entries

Agreed. He's a good kick in the sense that the ball seems to come sweetly off his boot and he has a 55m-60m kick in him, but in terms of touch and accuracy he's not a great kick.

 

[Red_man2008]

ins: stocker, Cuningham
Outs: Kennedy, Williamson and Dow

medical sub: setterfield (but he needs to play a half at vfl level)

 

[Iamcarlton]

It's pretty remarkable how different we look with JSOS in the side. He's not a big possession/goal kicker but his tenacity makes a tangible difference to our team.

The fact that Jacks intensity is glaringly obvious to all clearly shows that there are a number of players that need to lift their intensity and workrate when we dont have the ball .
And when i say workrate i dont mean running in a straight line on a 100 run continuosly through the game .
Go when its your turn to go tackle hard with intent not with one arm when the opportunity arises or get pushed aside in a tackle .
Watched Christian Petracca lay an absolute bone crunching tackle on Wingard on the weekend first thought was gee how good was that i wish our blokes would show that kind of intent .
Show some physicality and urgency to get more involved when we dont have the ball .
Anotherwords lets get physical .
We are having a go but its bare minimum imo we lack spark physically .
We did see snippets of it in the Freo game after a bake from the coach we need to keep seeing that kind of intensity week after week .

 

[Aphrodite]

AFL member tickets are supposd to go on sale at 10am....i cant for the life of me find a link for that. Anyone else having this issue?

Carlton Tickets | AFL Tickets | Ticketmaster AU

Looking for AFL tickets?! Find & buy Sports tickets from Ticketmaster AU. AFL event listings & ticket promotions.

www.ticketmaster.com.au

AFL Reserve tickets link (Unlock Member Tickets):-

Tickets: Carlton v Brisbane Lions - AFL Reserve, Docklands | Sat 24 Apr 21 16:35 | Ticketmaster AU

Tickets: for Carlton v Brisbane Lions - AFL Reserve @ Marvel Stadium | Sat 24 Apr 21 16:35 | Browse ticket types & offers | View seating map

www.ticketmaster.com.au

 

[FRUMPY]

People calling for Owies to come in must have just seen the stats and not watched the reserves game - he's not up to it (yet)

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Neither betts or Murphy are getting it done at AFL level and wont be on the list next year, lets see what we have in depth and if they are worth keeping. Owies 3rd year on the list, lets see what he has

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Many will get angry here....

Id be *close* to dropping plowman when parks is ready to return... His effort manning Gray at that stoppage where gray ran off him gathered the ball and set up a goal straight through the stoppage... Just caught day dreaming. Again. Happens too often to Plow who's got a nasty habit of letting himself down after playing well. 90% of a game isn't enough and if the coaches wanted to make examples of players that footage and Newnes effort on the wing are two reasonable examples from players who probably think they're undroppable.

 

[FRUMPY]

Agreed. He's a good kick in the sense that the ball seems to come sweetly off his boot and he has a 55m-60m kick in him, but in terms of touch and accuracy he's not a great kick.

From a stationary kick (after a mark/free kick) he is alright, its just the streaming fwd he misses. But that comes with experience and getting the tempo. This is a guy who has had SFA continuity at AFL level.

 

[BlueBlood15]

Agree with all this.
Haven’t read/listened to all of the criticism, but I’m sure it’s mostly warranted.
Injury list is seriously damaging, but we had enough experienced players to put forward a better performance than that.
I’m getting a bit sick of the team needing the scrutiny from the football media to lift our intensity. We already had our dismal pressure rating highlighted after the Pies game, but still we are ranked dead last.
Getting sick of the “learnings” and “now we know what’s expected” from Teague. Let’s show that these lessons are sinking in, that we’re working on improving these deficiencies. Won’t happen immediately, but seeing no evidence of change - either in strategy by coaches or application by (most of) the playing list.
All that said - I’ll be there Saturday.

Agree with all of this.
I think we’re all getting tired of the lack of consistency. Responding to a failure or average effort is fine but it only actually means something going forward if we use the failure to instil a base level of intensity and competitiveness. We haven’t been able to do that. It just felt like Groundhog Day on Saturday night - the same story we’ve seen over and over.
The players and coaches really need to sit down and work out what they stand for and whether they are willing to bring the right mentality and application each week. The problem is we’ve been saying this for years now and not much changes.
We’re nearly 6 years into a rebuild, which started at the end of the 2015 season, and we still can’t find 22 blokes who will play with the right intensity every week. The excuses are wearing thin.
I’ll be there on Saturday too hoping for a good performance, but ultimately it’s not about one game anymore (we’ve seen responses from this club), it’s about putting together a month of games where the intensity is high. That doesn’t mean we necessarily win every game obviously but it means we actually give ourselves a genuine chance to do that.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Many will get angry here....

Id be *close* to dropping plowman when parks is ready to return... His effort manning Gray at that stoppage where gray ran off him gathered the ball and set up a goal straight through the stoppage... Just caught day dreaming. Again. Happens too often to Plow who's got a nasty habit of letting himself down after playing well. 90% of a game isn't enough and if the coaches wanted to make examples of players that footage and Newnes effort on the wing are two reasonable examples from players who probably think they're undroppable.

Yep the consequence of having a weak MC that wont drop older players for poor performance or workrate .
Players come to Carlton play 100 games get comfortable and feel their entrenched without the fear of being dropped .
Because what else do we have underneath putting pressure on these players .
Ins and outs at Carlton are injured or young players .
Perfect breeding ground for mediocrity imo .

 

[Weiterbot23]

If you live in victoria and stay at home and watch this without a good excuse then you can't really come on here and have a crack at the players about effort, if you are too lazy to go and add to the home ground advantage.

 

[Recon_29]

If you live in victoria and stay at home and watch this without a good excuse then you can't really come on here and have a crack at the players about effort, if you are too lazy to go and add to the home ground advantage.

love this.

 

[FRUMPY]

If you live in victoria and stay at home and watch this without a good excuse then you can't really come on here and have a crack at the players about effort, if you are too lazy to go and add to the home ground advantage.

Meh, AFL cashcow doesnt give a s**t about the supporters and if they, the players, dont want to put the effort in then i cant be bothered most of the time. Ill watch from home instead.

Ill get to my 3 or 4 games a year

 

[Kruezing]

Many will get angry here....

Id be *close* to dropping plowman when parks is ready to return... His effort manning Gray at that stoppage where gray ran off him gathered the ball and set up a goal straight through the stoppage... Just caught day dreaming. Again. Happens too often to Plow who's got a nasty habit of letting himself down after playing well. 90% of a game isn't enough and if the coaches wanted to make examples of players that footage and Newnes effort on the wing are two reasonable examples from players who probably think they're undroppable.

Geez that Newnes one in the last was pretty poor ... there is no way I’d play any player again after that blatant lack of effort ...