Preview Rd 6 Carlton v Brisbane - Saturday 24th April 4.35PM @ Marvel Stadium - Team Post #964

[Weiterbot23]

Well this is one of the silliest things I’ve read for a while...

I'd love to hear your explanation of why

 

[Weiterbot23]

Having a go at supporters for not wanting to cheer is a wild take.

Saying you can't criticise the team because you're not cheering is an even wilder one.

So you want the players to put their head over the ball and bleed for the club, when you can't even be bothered going to the ground?

Get on the train and get to the game!

Pressure the umpires, boo the opposition, cheer a hard chase or smother.

Besides buying a membership it's the only thing you can do to help the club, yet you won't do it?

Where is your comittment!!!?

 

[jj1978]

Paddy Dow won't get anywhere as a medical sub. Give him a full 4 quarters in the ressies and give him the chance to see if he has it in him to get 25+ touches and a few tackles.

Doubt it, but part of me wishes that they did this was to have him frothing at the mouth ready to come on (if required) and give his all. And if he wasn't required he'd realise that he missed a week of playing when he's 100% healthy.

 

[Jimmae]

Imagine if SImmo had of been given the option to play on this year on the proviso that he move to the forward line and become that defensive forward.
Run, tackle, harass, put his body on the line, set the example for the fwd group.
He would have accepted the role with open arms.
We retired the wrong bloke.....such a shame

Simmo would be shown up for pace off the mark a lot of the time. List sizes and bringing in Williams and Saad kinda sealed his fate, not a choice between him or Murphy. Simmo was a lot of things, but an elite kick wasn't one of them.

I don't necessarily disagree, but under the current coaching structure I don't see much by way of innovation or change in the structures themselves. We might see added complexity, and minor differences in personnel roles, but that's about it. Eddie and Murphy are both more capable of providing something than the players I mention right now, but they are within a year of no longer being there. It's better to scaffold the younger players with the safety net in place than it is to just rely on them in the absence of these two seniors.

I had thought Teague a tactician rather than a strategist, but he's gone back on that over the past two years.

Let's look at things in terms of the 23 and under bracket:

In the 22: McKay, Fogarty, Cottrell, Williamson, Walsh, Weitering, SPS
Recently dropped: Dow, Setterfield
On the cusp: Stocker, O'Brien
Not ready: Ramsay, Philp, Honey (2nd year players), Durdin (first year)
Injured: JSOS, Parks, Kemp, Carroll, Fisher, De Koning

How much more of our youth do you want to toss into the mix? Moving over to the 24 & 25 year old category just to round things out:

In the 22: Gibbons, Pittonet, Kennedy
On the cusp: Owies, Cuningham
Injured: OMac, Marchbank, C.Curnow

The failure here isn't playing the kids, it's that we have only just started weeding out the weak senior depth that are playing in the 22, that has been costing us kids like Fogarty on the regular. We've also used them as an excuse for not drafting quality role players. You know I've covered many sliding doors moments in our player acquisition and drafting over the journey, but a lot of them I have highlighted the alternatives well in advance.

Even Tom Murphy, who I have been screaming for us to draft or sign and isn't on an AFL list this year, is now in the process of tearing it up for West Adelaide in the SANFL and will likely go straight back into AFL ranks. We're just incredibly dumb when it comes to tactics, and edge cases. We've got some absurd model for player valuation that seems to think pace and ability to open the game up by hand are secondary traits to aerobic capacity and ability to play two positions.

Shuffling the magnets around

Silly statement, because I can swap McKay and Jones, and turn us into a 6 goals a game team that sparks an AFL enquiry.

Effort comes from culture and culture is driven by the coach and captains and this club seems to have effort issues a lot, going back to the 'we got ahead of ourselves' comment after a loss and then an embarrassing loss to 2 out of 5 games this year with sub par effort. The leadership isn't good enough. Good leaders don't allow culture of near enough is good enough a d they certainly don't allow poor efforts as often as we see them - example Newnes in the 4th quarter, I'm sure everyone's seen that footage floating round. Just shouldn't happen.

I agree with the philosophy, but Newnes was cooked and for some reason didn't run to the bench after the first crappy chase down. About 40 seconds after that he went for the bench.

I still want to drop him, though for similar reasons (speed/endurance mix, lack of physicality).

 

[morningbrown]

So you want the players to put their head over the ball and bleed for the club, when you can't even be bothered going to the ground?

Get on the train and get to the game!

Pressure the umpires, boo the opposition, cheer a hard chase or smother.

Besides buying a membership it's the only thing you can do to help the club, yet you won't do it?

Where is your comittment!!!?

I'm a member, which means I have committed financially and handed my hard-earned over to the club. If I don't want to put myself through the pain of attending a game physically and watching us capitulate, I'm well within my rights.

And even for non-members, after what our club has put us through for the better part of 20 years, they aren't owed anything from supporters.

You're allowed to criticise the performance of a sports team.

Don't tell me you're one of those "if you didn't play at the highest level, you don't know anything" kind of people?

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[fnm_just a man]

Should be making noise when things aren't going well. Let the team know we are behind them.

Can't call the player downhill skiers when we are exactly the same.


Rant over.





For now.

A few years back I created words that were designed to inspire the team, to the tune of Amazing Grace.. thinking along the same lines - sing it as an anthem to lift the players.

In the end, I think I felt dirty messing with such a monumental song, but I still like the idea of it.

I guess everyone is inspired differently, but music and especially united anthemic vocals gets me going in all kinds of crazy ways

 

[Red_man2008]

Just send them the link for their ticket in the email you get. The name & number is just a covid tracing thing, but you also do the QR code sign in at the gate so shouldn't be an issue

Thank You for your help. I just found that and forwarded it.

 

[smashbox gill]

In: Stocker, Cunners, Parks, LOB
Out: Murph, Kennedy, Willow, Dow, Curnow, Betts

B: Saad, Jones, Plow
HB: Parks Weiters Doc
C: Williams Cripps Cunners
HF: SPS Casboult Fogarty
F: Owies McKay Gibbons
R: Pitto Walsh Stocker

I/C: Cotrrell, McGov (last chance), LOB, Newnes

Make a statement
SPS, Cunners, Stocker all rotating on ball

I think Murph should be the sub moving forward. Would be a good impact player and doesn’t hurt any of our young played development by making them sub and them missing an entire game in VFL

 

[Juddrockz]

Could someone help. I just used my own and another members codes to get seats for Saturday. The site only asked for my details and not the other ticket holder. Will this be an issue at the gate.

No,but you can send the QR code to the other person going with you.

 

[gunslingr]

SPS is one of our most expensive clanger kings there is. He regularly over runs the ball, frequently beaten one on one - usually actually, kicks it to the opposition player 15 meters away , kicks it over players heads - 15 meters away - and when under zero pressure, from marks.

This weekend - like most weekends - his total output was 73 meters gained from his entire output running from out of defense - it really is shocking his level of output relative to the praise he receives on here.


Compared to Dow and Obrien has been terrible and is living off a great debut, being hidden on easy beats and forgiven for at least one - if not two clangers each week which cost goals.

I really like him as a person too - but his actual output is worse than almost any of the draftees in dispute.

His 2021 clanger average is 0.1 higher than Dow's, whereas his 2021 disposal efficiency is third at Carlton and top 100 in the AFL.

I agree that 73 metres doesn't seem like a great stat, but if we want Cripps to be letting loose with a quick handball to an outside player more often, isn't that what we're going to get from him too (Round 5 2019 v Bulldogs saw an absolutely dominant Cripps clock 83 metres gained)? Round 5 was an outlier for SPS this year - he's averaging 237 metres gained in 2021 (278 if you remove this game), so what would be a pass mark for this stat for him?

Also, it's hard to get to games in Canberra (dreading my semi-regular trip to watch us play GWS or even the Swans) so I can't see all the positioning of the potential receivers on the tv (or phone as it was this weekend), but I'd bet one of SPS's problems re longer kicking is the lack of real options to kick to, thanks to the work rate of much of the team around the middle of the ground. It's possible they're there and he doesn't see them, but he usually appears to my eyes to be particularly quick at scanning/sizing up what's around - maybe he's trying to preserve his stats, maybe it's as simple as preferring the safety of kicking to a closer option and his confidence is shot.

 

[F_therest]

Neither betts or Murphy are getting it done at AFL level and wont be on the list next year, lets see what we have in depth and if they are worth keeping. Owies 3rd year on the list, lets see what he has

Betts has been fine this year...watching the game he's the forward who puts on the most defensive pressure along with jsos.

Kicked a few nice goals too and some assists.

 

[Weiterbot23]

I'm a member, which means I have committed financially and handed my hard-earned over to the club. If I don't want to put myself through the pain of attending a game physically and watching us capitulate, I'm well within my rights.

And even for non-members, after what our club has put us through for the better part of 20 years, they aren't owed anything from supporters.

You're allowed to criticise the performance of a sports team.

Don't tell me you're one of those "if you didn't play at the highest level, you don't know anything" kind of people?

I just think it's complete hipocrisy to sit at home and watch the game instead of going and showing support, then get on here and pot the players effort....where is your effort? Youre a member and therefore part of the club*.


Get to the ******* game and get behind the boys!

 

[Coops93]

His 2021 clanger average is 0.1 higher than Dow's, whereas his 2021 disposal efficiency is third at Carlton and top 100 in the AFL.

I agree that 73 metres doesn't seem like a great stat, but if we want Cripps to be letting loose with a quick handball to an outside player more often, isn't that what we're going to get from him too (Round 5 2019 v Bulldogs saw an absolutely dominant Cripps clock 83 metres gained)? Round 5 was an outlier for SPS this year - he's averaging 237 metres gained in 2021 (278 if you remove this game), so what would be a pass mark for this stat for him?

Also, it's hard to get to games in Canberra (dreading my semi-regular trip to watch us play GWS or even the Swans) so I can't see all the positioning of the potential receivers on the tv (or phone as it was this weekend), but I'd bet one of SPS's problems re longer kicking is the lack of real options to kick to, thanks to the work rate of much of the team around the middle of the ground. It's possible they're there and he doesn't see them, but he usually appears to my eyes to be particularly quick at scanning/sizing up what's around - maybe he's trying to preserve his stats, maybe it's as simple as preferring the safety of kicking to a closer option and his confidence is shot.

As a rebounding half back he should be up over 400m most games imo. For comparison Docherty is about 530m a game.

I don't have the science to back this up but going off my own eye test his turnovers are more damaging because he only ever goes for the 20m pass, and if he's around the D50 and turns the ball over going for a 20m pass on the 45 the opposition are getting the ball back 60 from goal with all our defenders trying to get forward or provide an option so it really hurts, whereas a 40 m kick down the line that gets turned over is 100m from goal in congestion so the play is slowed.

He's not a bad in terms of clangers SPS but 1 or 2 turnovers like that a game are more hurtful than most clangers.

 

[F_therest]

Geez that Newnes one in the last was pretty poor ... there is no way I’d play any player again after that blatant lack of effort ...

Then you'd be dropping most of the team including cripps and even Walsh.

Its not unusual for any team across the league to show a lack of effort and intensity in 4th quarters when the game is over...even the best teams do it.

West coast stopped to a walk against St kilda a few weeks ago, Port gave up against West Coast and got pumped, Richmond famously got pumped by St kilda by about 80 points a few years ago and they won the premiership. We actually closed the gap on the scoreboard in the last quarter.

We aren't dropping Newnes for that when he's been good effort wise and defensively this year.

 

[Own The Future]

This part of the Liam Stocker

14

Liam Stocker

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

player evaluation has me concerned they won’t play him this week:

“As a defender, we want to see him really have a hard-nosed, defensive approach and that is something we’ve reviewed and talked through him with, particularly at a higher ball, the decision-making process, ‘does he fly or stay down and defend his man?’ They were just some things that we looked at with him.”

Sounds like reasoning for non-selection?

 

[Red_man2008]

His 2021 clanger average is 0.1 higher than Dow's, whereas his 2021 disposal efficiency is third at Carlton and top 100 in the AFL.

I agree that 73 metres doesn't seem like a great stat, but if we want Cripps to be letting loose with a quick handball to an outside player more often, isn't that what we're going to get from him too (Round 5 2019 v Bulldogs saw an absolutely dominant Cripps clock 83 metres gained)? Round 5 was an outlier for SPS this year - he's averaging 237 metres gained in 2021 (278 if you remove this game), so what would be a pass mark for this stat for him?

Also, it's hard to get to games in Canberra (dreading my semi-regular trip to watch us play GWS or even the Swans) so I can't see all the positioning of the potential receivers on the tv (or phone as it was this weekend), but I'd bet one of SPS's problems re longer kicking is the lack of real options to kick to, thanks to the work rate of much of the team around the middle of the ground. It's possible they're there and he doesn't see them, but he usually appears to my eyes to be particularly quick at scanning/sizing up what's around - maybe he's trying to preserve his stats, maybe it's as simple as preferring the safety of kicking to a closer option and his confidence is shot.

We forget that SPS played two really good games in our wins recently and was only poor v port. He wasn’t the only one. 80% of our side played pretty poorly. I’m glass half full here and I think we played poorly due to the travel and the 6 day break off a pretty hot game.

 

[Kruezing]

This part of the Liam Stocker player evaluation has me concerned they won’t play him this week:

“As a defender, we want to see him really have a hard-nosed, defensive approach and that is something we’ve reviewed and talked through him with, particularly at a higher ball, the decision-making process, ‘does he fly or stay down and defend his man?’ They were just some things that we looked at with him.”

Sounds like reasoning for non-selection?

You could apply the same assessment to 90% of those in the seniors as a reason for non selection right now ... I’d like to give him a chance ... let’s see where he’s at ...

 

[jj1978]

I just think it's complete hipocrisy to sit at home and watch the game instead of going and showing support, then get on here and pot the players effort....where is your effort? Youre a member and therefore part of the club*.


Will probably get a life ban from bigfooty for this but

Definition of a coward

"a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things"

If you "won't put yourself through going to the game" as it is unpleasant doesn't that make you the same as the players you pot afterwards?


Get to the ******* game and get behind the boys!

I sat through live the 100+ point shellacking vs North during the Pagan era... anyone who has done that surely gets a pass for the remainder of their life. I pay for 3 memberships, don't always go to games, I'm not a person who enjoys crowds and like my space. I pay my money to put bricks on the new facility wall with my name on it. I pay for raffle tickets... I watch every game live... so I don't attend all games you're saying people are cowards?

 

[Own The Future]

You could apply the same assessment to 90% of those in the seniors as a reason for non selection right now ... I’d like to give him a chance ... let’s see where he’s at ...

Trust me, I desperately want him to play - this week and for a decent block of games.
I was highlighting what could be read as the coaches giving an out as to why he may not be selected.
As in “sure, he controlled the defence, amassed 38 touches and was elite by foot... but until he knows exactly what to do under the high ball we think he needs a few more months in the 2s”
Geez - if composure under the highball is a prerequisite for selection a few senior guys will be missing this week.

 

[morningbrown]

I just think it's complete hipocrisy to sit at home and watch the game instead of going and showing support, then get on here and pot the players effort....where is your effort? Youre a member and therefore part of the club*.


Will probably get a life ban from bigfooty for this but

Definition of a coward

"a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things"

If you "won't put yourself through going to the game" as it is unpleasant doesn't that make you the same as the players you pot afterwards?


Get to the ******* game and get behind the boys!

I'm not paid six figures to watch football mate, but they are paid that to play it.

I love my club with all my heart. But if the effort and results are not at an acceptable level, I shouldn't be shamed into going every single week.

 

[gunslingr]

As a rebounding half back he should be up over 400m most games imo. For comparison Docherty is about 530m a game.

I don't have the science to back this up but going off my own eye test his turnovers are more damaging because he only ever goes for the 20m pass, and if he's around the D50 and turns the ball over going for a 20m pass on the 45 the opposition are getting the ball back 60 from goal with all our defenders trying to get forward or provide an option so it really hurts, whereas a 40 m kick down the line that gets turned over is 100m from goal in congestion so the play is slowed.

He's not a bad in terms of clangers SPS but 1 or 2 turnovers like that a game are more hurtful than most clangers.

Docherty doesn't take all the kick-ins, but he still takes a fair few, doesn't he? Inflates his metres gained somewhat

 

[Stamos]

Well, Parks won't be back this week.

Bring in Stocker for Williamson.

 

[katmanblue]

There's no N42 at Docklands

It's either Level 1, 2 or 3.

Aisle 42, level 2

 

[Aphrodite]

Injury update 20th April ...

Injury news: De Koning, Newman on verge of returns

It's positive news on the injury front of Tom De Koning and Nic Newman.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Jack Carroll	Finger	"He's back out there doing skills. He'll be a test to play next week."
Charlie Curnow	Knee
Tom De Koning	Back	"He'll train this week, he'll train next week and we'll make a decision on whether we think he's ready."
Zac Fisher	Ankle	"We feel that we needed to do [surgery] and he feels a lot better. We expect him to be back running later this week."
Brodie Kemp	Foot
Caleb Marchbank	Knee
Jack Martin	Knee	"He's back running... we're happy with the way he's moving."
Oscar McDonald	Back
Nic Newman	Knee	"He's a really good chance to be playing footy next week."
Luke Parks	Hamstring	"He's got a low-grade medial hamstring strain. We expect him to miss 1-2 games."
Jack Silvagni	Shoulder	"The surgery was to reduce inflammation in the joint and it's done that. He'll probably miss another three weeks."