Preview Round 11, 2021: St.Kilda v North Melbourne - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 29th May, 4:35PM AEST *ROSS 150TH* *CLAVARINO DEBUT*

[PostmanBish]

I’ve worked out that a saints player is responsible for covid. He is young kid so hard to put the blame on him but it’s clearly his fault. Yep it’s jack bytel. Yet to play a seconds game for points and what happens this week when he is dropped. Covid arrives and all seconds games are cancelled. I blame him. Actually an amazing stat considering he also hasn’t played a lot of firsts footy.

Questions must be asked about where he's sourcing his permatan from, and whether the chemical formulation is causing outbreaks ...

 

[LiterallyNobody]

No I think coaching is obviously important or otherwise Clarkson would rated the same as noble. I do feel though he was hamstrung with selection even if some where fringe players. Let’s face most who are upset with him seem to be about bytel or hill. Once they decided to play dunstan and that’s fair enough bytel was gone. With hill well I think his previous 3 games made him safe. I doubt he was ever dropping him. The only other one is butler and really the only other option was lonie. They went for butler. No biggie there.

I have no clue if ratts is a good bad or indifferent coach. I never wanted him because his record was just ok. We have him now and in one completed season we won a final. Our first for about 9 years so a clear pass mark. In his second season we are very unlikely to make finals. A clear failure. Based on that deserves his final year. Let’s face it if the years were reversed we would be all over him now.

Sorry you didn't want a coach with a 50% win loss ratio then? As it was just ok? What were you hoping for?

 

[plugger66]

Sorry you didn't want a coach with a 50% win loss ratio then? As it was just ok? What were you hoping for?

Either a new coach or a better win loss ratio. 50% means around 9th every year. And guess what he is with us. Around 50%.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Even though the selections are weak as piss...

I’m not crying

 

[kernelT]

... Obviously career outputs isnt going to stack up, it was a suggestion about their first 10 games from memory, given Bytel has now played 12...

Smith first 12 games disposal tally

8, 13, 22, 13, 18, 23, 22, 10, 28, 21, 16

Average 16.6

Bytel first 12 games disposal tally

18, 13 8, 13, 6*, 19, 10, 6*, 21, 15, 16, 12

I think we're all generally pretty positive about Bytels prospects but I don't think those numbers do much to support him staying in the side currently.

20+ touches should be a pretty common base for a starting mid, Bytel has had one game with 21, where we won by 12 goals. Smith already had 5 games with 20+ and 4 of his last 6 were 20+. He was also 3 years younger than Jack at the time.

Smith is looking like a superstar, Bytel doesn't have to track at the same rate, but he does need to keep improving rapidly… we can't carry sub 15 touch midfielders for many weeks.

I imagine he'll be the sub anyway this week.

 

[Premium]

People going on about the selections - you can't drop players when you have no one to replace them with unless you want to lose.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Either a new coach or a better win loss ratio. 50% means around 9th every year. And guess what he is with us. Around 50%.

Hmmm I must've had my stats mixed up - I was sure 50% was actually good. I just looked at our three previous coaches and two of them (Watters and Richo) were awful - both well under 40% Ross Lyon was good though with a 64% win ratio. Apologies.

 

[Mowman]

People going on about the selections - you can't drop players when you have no one to replace them with unless you want to lose.

And you can’t have a 111 - 86 -75 &54 point smashings and pretend that nothing is wrong and take the soft option of dropping Lonie and Bytel

and if we have no one that can come in list management and recruiting needs to be looked at

 

[austinnn]

Didnt you have a plethora of inside mids, Dunstan, bytel, Ross, Steele.

Why wouldn't you instead add hunter Clark into the midfield group to take where Crouch is playing, he has the ability to be your Nat Fyfe, petracca, Bont type of footballer, he was ready to take the next step from half back to lethal mid.

Why do you have Mason wood and Dean Kent on the list? Surely you only need 1. Why did you add Higgins, when you have also a plethora of small fwds that play the same.

Why is Jake Carlisle still there, and then you add Frawley? Surely you just need 1.
Same with McKernan and hunter?

Leathlan has cooked this list

I will do you the courtesy of a straight answer.

Dunstan is too slow and his disposal is too messy to play AFL, Ross is only decent if there are better miss around him. Bytel is still young, we needed another Steele, which is what Crouch is more or less.

Clark still has to bulk up a little and work faster to be thrown right into the engine room IMO, not the same type of player as Fyfe or Petracca, he's smooth not impact, more a Harvey or Pendebury type.

Wood was added at the last minute as a half thought, he was training with us and gave us options up fwd that on paper meant we weren't reliant on Battle or Marshall to shield King - unfortunately he hasn't taken his chances but it was a very minor risk. Kent a smal forward that was added years ago and was good depth at times last year, so your statement about only needing one is a bit weird.

Agree that Higgins probably wasn't needed, but he's a quality player from a premiership club and he has the rare club Supporter backstory that we love at St Kilda, again didn't cost us too much.

Jake is still on our list because no one else wanted him. His back is cooked sadly but he was impervious at times last year so was worth keeping on for one more year. Frawley was added to essentially play full back which Jake or Doogal can do but they work better as centre backs - he's played 2 games in the last however many months and is in his thirties so anyone expecting him to be Mick Martin so far was kidding themselves.

McKernan & Hunter were last minute cheap ruck depth that we got for Sandringham and ended up having to use for seniors. Priority in off season will surely be finding quality support for Marshall and eventual replacement for Ryder. Should have really done it last year but maybe we tried, I don't know.

Lethlean hasn't cooked the list at all.

 

[plugger66]

Hmmm I must've had my stats mixed up - I was sure 50% was actually good. I just looked at our three previous coaches and two of them (Watters and Richo) were awful - both well under 40% Ross Lyon was good though with a 64% win ratio. Apologies.

No need to apologise. I’m probably wrong.

 

[snails13]

Ratten said he was forced to “throw the magnets around” after the late surge in hurt players.

With just three players outside the named team, including emergencies, available to pick, he had to hold fire on culling more underperforming players, for now.

“It’s easy to say let’s make all these changes. But we are trying to win the game and address that performance we had. Sometimes you give players the opportunity to respond,” Ratten said on Friday.

“Also, it’s the availability we have got. We’ve got three players outside of our emergences available. One is a category B ruckman, one is a first-year player and one is a second-year player.

“There have been some conversations around our people’s form and what they have done so far, and probably a little bit like our season it has been inconsistent. Some of the players that we have relied on are in that space.

“There have been some harder conversations this week about performing to the level otherwise they are on their last chance before they get put out of the team.”

Saints’ U-turn explained as players given ‘last chance’ after ‘putrid’ humiliation

Saints’ U-turn explained as players given ‘last chance’ after ‘putrid’ humiliation

www.foxsports.com.au

Ratten said he was forced to “throw the magnets around” after the late surge in hurt players.

With just three players outside the named team, including emergencies, available to pick, he had to hold fire on culling more underperforming players, for now.

“It’s easy to say let’s make all these changes. But we are trying to win the game and address that performance we had. Sometimes you give players the opportunity to respond,” Ratten said on Friday.

“Also, it’s the availability we have got. We’ve got three players outside of our emergences available. One is a category B ruckman, one is a first-year player and one is a second-year player.

“There have been some conversations around our people’s form and what they have done so far, and probably a little bit like our season it has been inconsistent. Some of the players that we have relied on are in that space.

“There have been some harder conversations this week about performing to the level otherwise they are on their last chance before they get put out of the team.”

Saints’ U-turn explained as players given ‘last chance’ after ‘putrid’ humiliation

Saints’ U-turn explained as players given ‘last chance’ after ‘putrid’ humiliation

www.foxsports.com.au

I seriously cannot believe that 2xHigh Profile people (Thomas and Cornes) cannot get into their School books and do some research to understand the reasoning for things like the above
As soon as I seen the teams announced I thought what a load of crap on the changes made,but then looked up on our list to see who were also available and there is F.. all who deserve to play at the highest level.

 

[phantom13]

I think we're all generally pretty positive about Bytels prospects but I don't think those numbers do much to support him staying in the side currently.

20+ touches should be a pretty common base for a starting mid, Bytel has had one game with 21, where we won by 12 goals. Smith already had 5 games with 20+ and 4 of his last 6 were 20+. He was also 3 years younger than Jack at the time.

Smith is looking like a superstar, Bytel doesn't have to track at the same rate, but he does need to keep improving rapidly… we can't carry sub 15 touch midfielders for many weeks.

I imagine he'll be the sub anyway this week.

Id rather support a young mid that had a down week and probably hasnt had alot of support.

Im providing some evidence beyond the general feeling that Bytel probably wouldnt think he has the support of the coaches. I dont think he should have been dropped this week over a few others. Smith as a comparison shows what can be achieved if you support and develop.

 

[AirWinmar]

That's backfired spectacularly. And the Saints have four list spot open.. with only one going to filled in the mid season draft.

You've just upset me again. Some serious 4d chess that was

 

[kernelT]

Smith as a comparison shows what can be achieved if you support and develop.

It doesn't though, you could also say that Dunstan was backed in early, played loads of games… it didn't make him an elite mid.

Smith is a gun, it wouldn't have mattered how many games he played in year one. Apart from his decent overall possesion numbers, he was offering electric pace, was kicking goals and also kicking the ball twice as much as Jack is. Apples and Oranges.

It's like poinitng to Chris Judd and saying that Byrnes shouldn't be dropped again.

 

[AirWinmar]

I think even if nobody said it there'd still be angst if key players weren't dropped. 111 points and the omissions are Bytel and Lonie, I totally get why people are pissed off.

Yep that's true, but the messaging and the fact Smack and Frawley are listed as injuries probably doesn't help.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

When you lose by 111 points to a tem you beat in an elimination final last year and there's being multiple games, where commitment has being of concern, then you can't have 4+ plus guys remain in the team as the loss doesn't warrant them to stay and they should be in the reserves for multiple weeks, if you can't beat north without dropping 3-4 name players, you should pack up the joint

I seriously cannot believe that 2xHigh Profile people (Thomas and Cornes) cannot get into their School books and do some research to understand the reasoning for things like the above
As soon as I seen the teams announced I thought what a load of crap on the changes made,but then looked up on our list to see who were also available and there is F.. all who deserve to play at the highest level.

 

[plugger66]

When you lose by 111 points to a tem you beat in an elimination final last year and there's being multiple games, where commitment has being of concern, then you can't have 4+ plus guys remain in the team as the loss doesn't warrant them to stay and they should be in the reserves for multiple weeks, if you can't beat north without dropping 3-4 name players, you should pack up the joint

Unless we can ask north to play with less than 18 that is complete rot. We lost 3 players this week plus Joyce in the seconds and still dropped 2. There isn’t much left.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Why is Dunstan still on your list then after 105 games if that's the case?
Why keep Carlisle if no one wanted him? I thought he was yuck last year as well, his efforts against Hawkins looked like a guy who didn't want to be there.

Look I don't mind if it was only Crouch last year, you could make sense that he's a tough a grade mid that you need, but why didn't you chase Caldwell harder than Crouch, surely he would be a better match for your list profile aiming for a flag next year.

The problem is the guys you have got for a years cover, plus immenent retirements means it will be a big list cull at the end of the year and after looking like a team on the up at the end of last year, you look like a slow meandering team with ball in hand much like 2018, but with more experienced players

I will do you the courtesy of a straight answer.

Dunstan is too slow and his disposal is too messy to play AFL, Ross is only decent if there are better miss around him. Bytel is still young, we needed another Steele, which is what Crouch is more or less.

Clark still has to bulk up a little and work faster to be thrown right into the engine room IMO, not the same type of player as Fyfe or Petracca, he's smooth not impact, more a Harvey or Pendebury type.

Wood was added at the last minute as a half thought, he was training with us and gave us options up fwd that on paper meant we weren't reliant on Battle or Marshall to shield King - unfortunately he hasn't taken his chances but it was a very minor risk. Kent a smal forward that was added years ago and was good depth at times last year, so your statement about only needing one is a bit weird.

Agree that Higgins probably wasn't needed, but he's a quality player from a premiership club and he has the rare club Supporter backstory that we love at St Kilda, again didn't cost us too much.

Jake is still on our list because no one else wanted him. His back is cooked sadly but he was impervious at times last year so was worth keeping on for one more year. Frawley was added to essentially play full back which Jake or Doogal can do but they work better as centre backs - he's played 2 games in the last however many months and is in his thirties so anyone expecting him to be Mick Martin so far was kidding themselves.

McKernan & Hunter were last minute cheap ruck depth that we got for Sandringham and ended up having to use for seniors. Priority in off season will surely be finding quality support for Marshall and eventual replacement for Ryder. Should have really done it last year but maybe we tried, I don't know.

Lethlean hasn't cooked the list at all.

 

[jwikked]

When you lose by 111 points to a tem you beat in an elimination final last year and there's being multiple games, where commitment has being of concern, then you can't have 4+ plus guys remain in the team as the loss doesn't warrant them to stay and they should be in the reserves for multiple weeks, if you can't beat north without dropping 3-4 name players, you should pack up the joint

both your posts are spot on

 

[AirWinmar]

Is dropping a Hill or Butler for Connelly really a stretch though? We need a look at this guy at some stange and based on their outputs last week he couldn't do much worse.

I think it's a stretch - Hill will play well if we do better at the contest and Butler is a forward so probably not really someone to switch with Connelly. could have chosen him ahead of Coff going by reports if there was integrity of selection

 

[kernelT]

When you lose by 111 points to a tem you beat in an elimination final last year and there's being multiple games, where commitment has being of concern, then you can't have 4+ plus guys remain in the team as the loss doesn't warrant them to stay and they should be in the reserves for multiple weeks, if you can't beat north without dropping 3-4 name players, you should pack up the joint

There's enough negative henny pennys without geelong campaigners coming in here for a little head kick.

I think we're well aware of the list deficiencies, but we also have 4 first choice mids missing so can't really drop last weeks midfield who were pretty good against geelong the week before.

Haven't you got the next 15 years to worry about instead of our 2022?

 

[Premium]

And you can’t have a 111 - 86 -75 &54 point smashings and pretend that nothing is wrong and take the soft option of dropping Lonie and Bytel

and if we have no one that can come in list management and recruiting needs to looked at

We all know there is something wrong and injuries to Marshall , Gresham , Jones , Paton , Carlisle , McKenzie , Joyce , Frawley , McKernan , Roberton , Clark and Kent is not helping.

 

[snails13]

When you lose by 111 points to a tem you beat in an elimination final last year and there's being multiple games, where commitment has being of concern, then you can't have 4+ plus guys remain in the team as the loss doesn't warrant them to stay and they should be in the reserves for multiple weeks, if you can't beat north without dropping 3-4 name players, you should pack up the joint

Long,Allison,Connolly,Joyce,Hunter and Alabakis are the remaining players on our list to choose from.
Long went back to Sandy as did Joyce and Hunter in recent weeks for obviously not performing at the required level and in no way are Alabakis and Allison at AFL standard.
That leaves just Connolly who possibly could have been selected.
So let's get your ins and outs for the Saints this week.

 

[Mowman]

We all know there is something wrong and injuries to Marshall , Gresham , Jones , Paton , Carlisle , McKenzie , Joyce , Frawley , McKernan , Roberton , Clark and Kent is not helping.

Yep agree Marshall, Gresham, Jones, Paton, Clark
At the same time every club has injuries

 

[AirWinmar]

Would be a great start

Throw tomatoes at me, but Hill has been a lot better and played some very good games over the last month and encouragingly is trying to focus on his defensive game. He was terrible last week, but as an outside player you will always look awful when the rest of your team doesn't turn up.

On form he deserved to be dropped in the first 3 or 4 games 100%. But you'd have to drop 3/4's of the team if you were basing it on last week alone.