When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[La Dispute]

People are saying Hawthorn will not get a top 10 pick for Tom Mitchell who can still rack up 40+ post-leg break. Tom Mitchell has probably racked up more Brownlow votes in 3 good weeks than Saad has in his entire career. If you use Saad as the barometer, surely we'd be looking at 2 first rounders for Mitchell. Sadly Saad isn't the barometer of what a first rounder is worth, he's just the barometer for how dumb Carlton's list management team are.

Didn’t realise you posted in other threads?

Tom Mitchell isn’t worth that much because he’s just not that damaging a player, and currently few clubs are in need of his type. If he slows down any more he could be out of the system in a couple of years, and that’s just the reality of being a slow player in a competition that seemingly gets quicker by the year. I worry about Cripps for similar reasons, and it’s not as though Mitchell has a second position either. His disposal is also horrendous at times.

I reckon we overpaid for Saad, but I’m content with his form this season. Has been a good replacement for Simpson, brought a surprisingly good defensive game and has been one of our best contributors. A lot of the value of that trade hinges on the players we’ve drafted this year, and our own form over the next couple of years.

 

[Engimal v3]

Carlton should sign Harry McKay on until he's 30

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It’s pretty unfathomable to think that a club could draft 3x Pick 1’s and you’d watch them play out their entire career without ever finishing top 4 in a single season.

It tells the tale of just continuously making poor list decisions.

 

[hk89]

Didn’t realise you posted in other threads?

How else am I to interact with my favourite Carlton posters on weeks when we win? They don't tend to turn up to the "ignoring the elite end of the draft" thread those weeks - despite the thread title being so relevant to their club.

As for Mitchell's value vs Saad's. We could trade Mitchell out, split the pick we get for him into 3 and get 3 players as good as Saad. In terms of Mitchell's ball usage. Mitchell is actually quite a good user of the ball given how inside he is. Has about 1.5 more turnovers a game than Saad, which is astounding given how inside Mitchell is, and how uncontested Saad is. In fact, Mitchell is winning about 3 times as much hard ball as Saad, and gets a lot more of it overall, so has a lot more opportunity to butcher it than Saad. Despite that, Saad has similar turnover and DE stats to Mitchell.

Anyway, I'll not be too critical, Hawthorn also made some poor decisions over the last few years due to having overestimated their list strength, so it would be churlish to spend too much time criticising Carlton for doing the same.

 

[Cdog71]

I can kinda make sense of the SOS mindset in building the list.
Lots of them equated to first rnd picks one way or another and alotve the kids from GWS where on really short contracts so he could move em on if a big fish became available.
The Saad deal would’ve had to have been ok’d by the board and you usually have to pay more than anybody else wants to get a player, I think he’s a B+ player and could be more same with Williams.

I think it was a stuff up the way it all played out with SOS, Liddle sticking his nose in with Ellis, Teague wanting Betts.
I think that’s where it started to go sideways Bolton and SOS where on the same page maybe it needed Walls to get involved or a Head of Footy to be put in place then and back em but since Teague they’ve slid. Everybody’s head needs to be pointing in the same direction and the fact Leppitsch was contacted by different departments for different roles shows it.
He’s be a ripper Coaching at Carlton I reckon. Lyon is too old and could woo the board probably but I reckon Leppa would be more relatable to the players

 

[La Dispute]

How else am I to interact with my favourite Carlton posters on weeks when we win? They don't tend to turn up to the "ignoring the elite end of the draft" thread those weeks - despite the thread title being so relevant to their club.

As for Mitchell's value vs Saad's. We could trade Mitchell out, split the pick we get for him into 3 and get 3 players as good as Saad. In terms of Mitchell's ball usage. Mitchell is actually quite a good user of the ball given how inside he is. Has about 1.5 more turnovers a game than Saad, which is astounding given how inside Mitchell is, and how uncontested Saad is. In fact, Mitchell is winning about 3 times as much hard ball as Saad, and gets a lot more of it overall, so has a lot more opportunity to butcher it than Saad. Despite that, Saad has similar turnover and DE stats to Mitchell.

Anyway, I'll not be too critical, Hawthorn also made some poor decisions over the last few years due to having overestimated their list strength, so it would be churlish to spend too much time criticising Carlton for doing the same.

Rent free.

Glad to see you’re branching out and diversifying your portfolio of thread subscriptions though.

Re: Mitchell, much like a lot of your posting, was relevant back in 2018, but now on a sharp decline into obscurity. Also just happy chasing cheapies around the periphery, and I guess that’s where the comparison with Saad really does end.

On one hand you’ve got a guy content to rack up 40 possessions, a great number just hot potatoing to a teammate 5 metres away or chipping backwards. That accounts for the fewer errors, compared to Saad’s disposal which is often rushed due to attempting higher risk plays in a scattered defence. Pinpointing a 50 metre kick under pressure is a hell of a lot trickier than general accumulation around the ground. Saad is also fed the ball in poor spots by his teammates, and that’s also not conducive to hitting targets. I’m surprised Mitchell’s DE is on par given his usual set of options are now pretty limited.

Have a glance at the D&T board for a general consensus on Mitchell’s value. It sits around a mid-late first, to save you a click. Teams just won’t readily add a declining, slow inside mid who almost exclusively takes low-risk conservative options around the ground. He could easily slow down to the point of becoming obsolete, in the Brock McLean vein.

This thread has very little to do with Tom Mitchell, but nice shoehorning nonetheless.

 

[Cdog71]

Rent free.

Glad to see you’re branching out and diversifying your portfolio of thread subscriptions though.

Re: Mitchell, much like a lot of your posting, was relevant back in 2018, but now on a sharp decline into obscurity. Also just happy chasing cheapies around the periphery, and I guess that’s where the comparison with Saad really does end.

On one hand you’ve got a guy content to rack up 40 possessions, a great number just hot potatoing to a teammate 5 metres away or chipping backwards. That accounts for the fewer errors, compared to Saad’s disposal which is often rushed due to attempting higher risk plays in a scattered defence. Pinpointing a 50 metre kick under pressure is a hell of a lot trickier than general accumulation around the ground. Saad is also fed the ball in poor spots by his teammates, and that’s also not conducive to hitting targets. I’m surprised Mitchell’s DE is on par given his usual set of options are now pretty limited.

Have a glance at the D&T board for a general consensus on Mitchell’s value. It sits around a mid-late first, to save you a click. Teams just won’t readily add a declining, slow inside mid who almost exclusively takes low-risk conservative options around the ground. He could easily slow down to the point of becoming obsolete, in the Brock McLean vein.

This thread has very little to do with Tom Mitchell, but nice shoehorning nonetheless.

He’s like the Scott West of the 21st Century

 

[hk89]

Rent free.

Yes, our deal with Mirvac at Waverley Park is wonderful. One of the many things that make HFC so special.

Re: Mitchell, much like a lot of your posting, was relevant back in 2018, but now on a sharp decline into obscurity.

Winning games off the back of his own effort = obscurity. 20 years in the wilderness (and counting) and certainly given Carlton fans a distorted view of reality.

Have a glance at the D&T board for a general consensus on Mitchell’s value. It sits around a mid-late first, to save you a click.

The joke is not what Mitchell is worth. It is what Carlton paid for Saad. I only mentioned Mitchell because if we can find a club as dumb as Carlton, we'd be getting a top 5 pick for Mitchell if #8 is what is paid by the stupidier clubs for Saad. We just need to find a club who's spent 20 years in the wilderness and is desperate to sell hope to its increasingly disillusioned fan base. I wonder if Essendon need a player who can rack up 40+ at will, seems like they might fit the bill on the desperation front. Might be hard to dupe Carlton again after they've been burnt so badly already on the mistimed top-up.

 

[PP34]

It’s pretty unfathomable to think that a club could draft 3x Pick 1’s and you’d watch them play out their entire career without ever finishing top 4 in a single season.

It tells the tale of just continuously making poor list decisions.

I don’t think number 1 picks guarantee anything. Murphy was the best of the lot and was very good for a while. Gibbs turned into a handy player but probably didn’t hit the heights some expected. Kreuzer was ruined by injuries.

You are right that the list management let the club down badly but I think if one of those picks was a genuine best in comp type talent then they probably make the 4 somewhere between 2010 and 2013. Instead during that period Judd was carrying the side.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Are there any whispers about who Carlton may be targetting this trade period?

 

[hk89]

Are there any whispers about who Carlton may be targetting this trade period?

I went to the Carlton board to try to find an answer to your question.

Instead I discovered the've been constantly undermined by Hawthorn people for years, and this has lead to their current predicament. The likes of Bolton, Barker and now Andrew Russell have apparently been the ruination of their club.

So I still have no idea who they'll be targeting, but if its someone from Hawthorn, be secure in the knowledge that it will not work out well for them.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I went to the Carlton board to try to find an answer to your question.

Instead I discovered the've been constantly undermined by Hawthorn people for years, and this has lead to their current predicament. The likes of Bolton, Barker and now Andrew Russell have apparently been the ruination of their club.

So I still have no idea who they'll be targeting, but if its someone from Hawthorn, be secure in the knowledge that it will not work out well for them.

Is the insinuation that ex Hawthorn people are Trojan horses looking to sabotage from within?

 

[AndrewShawble]

I went to the Carlton board to try to find an answer to your question.

Instead I discovered the've been constantly undermined by Hawthorn people for years, and this has lead to their current predicament. The likes of Bolton, Barker and now Andrew Russell have apparently been the ruination of their club.

So I still have no idea who they'll be targeting, but if its someone from Hawthorn, be secure in the knowledge that it will not work out well for them.

Surely Andrew Russell isn’t on the hook for anything?? One of the best in the game in his area.

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

Are there any whispers about who Carlton may be targetting this trade period?

Anyone from GWS want to come home?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Are there any whispers about who Carlton may be targetting this trade period?

Tom Mitchell.

 

[hk89]

Is the insinuation that ex Hawthorn people are Trojan horses looking to sabotage from within?

I don't think so, but probably easier to blame external folks than favourite sons (although a fair bit of that going on too, so probably more a general lashing out).

 

[hk89]

Surely Andrew Russell isn’t on the hook for anything?? One of the best in the game in his area.

Some are definitely putting their injuries and lack of fitness and conditioning at Russell's feet. Hard to believe Russell has anything to do with either of those. Some players just don't want to put in the work require to perform at an elite level, and your fitness team can't always change that.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Some are definitely putting their injuries and lack of fitness and conditioning at Russell's feet. Hard to believe Russell has anything to do with either of those. Some players just don't want to put in the work require to perform at an elite level, and your fitness team can't always change that.

Scary to think.

He oversaw the fitness/conditioning of the best side in the past 20 years. The amount of players they fixed/got right....

 

[PP34]

Scary to think.

He oversaw the fitness/conditioning of the best side in the past 20 years. The amount of players they fixed/got right....

Well his methods could perhaps be outdated.

I’ve seen no improvement from the club fitness wise since he’s got there. Constantly got a lot of blokes running around looking underdone too.

 

[JustaBattler]

Well his methods could perhaps be outdated.

I’ve seen no improvement from the club fitness wise since he’s got there. Constantly got a lot of blokes running around looking underdone too.

Against a body of work that spans decades - your 'impressions' which suit your style of brown nosing to trolls could perhaps carry about as much weight as a very used feather duster I've seen looking underdone in use.

 

[LordLucifer]

Well his methods could perhaps be outdated.

I’ve seen no improvement from the club fitness wise since he’s got there. Constantly got a lot of blokes running around looking underdone too.

Totally agree, have spoken about this same subject with a few Carlton colleagues of mine.

Russell came to the club as THE highest credentialled fitness & conditioning person in the country and was given a huge salary accordingly.

Unfortunately, our players are struggling to run out quarters plus we are experiencing a lot of injuries which has to make casual observers question the methodology being used and the results being achieved.

 

[Stamos]

Unfortunately, our players are struggling to run out quarters plus we are experiencing a lot of injuries which has to make casual observers question the methodology being used and the results being achieved.

This would seem a lot more to do with our game plan, and us selecting a few unfit players (against Russell's advice allegedly), than it is to do with Russell's fitness work.

 

[AndrewShawble]

Well his methods could perhaps be outdated.

I’ve seen no improvement from the club fitness wise since he’s got there. Constantly got a lot of blokes running around looking underdone too.

His record speaks for itself.

Ability to get people back to fitness and injury management doesn’t change that quickly.

 

[Gavin Excell]

The common denominator is Carlton

 

[PP34]

Against a body of work that spans decades - your 'impressions' which suit your style of brown nosing to trolls could perhaps carry about as much weight as a very used feather duster I've seen looking underdone in use.

Well they sure as hell aren’t an incredibly fit side. If they were maybe they’d both to run both ways in a game just once this year.

But yes that must make me a brown nose to trolls. Righto.

Did you think the same about Malthouse and Buttifant?

Forgive me if I’m not ready to sit here frothing at the mouth over the high performance coach responsible for a side that is an absolute embarrassment with their running ability throughout games.

Everyone is so amazing at Carlton. It’s why we always do so well…