Best Player of all time?

[Partridge]

All far superior players of the modern era, and all have premiership medallions at which they were at the forefront to prove it. Was Ablett ever a captain.

Yes he was - for the entire 1995 season. Kicked 122 goals, won his 3rd successive Coleman medal, also captained Victoria the day Whitten did a lap of honour before the game. If Ablett was so ordinary, how come the team he captained made the Grand Final (yes I know we didn't win it) and North with Carey didn't?

It's a non argument, but tragics that don't understand success (ie GFC supporters, how long has it been), have come to appreciate individual brilliance over teamwork, therefore hold it closer to the heart than helping your teammates to win.

Bullsh*t. You could not be more wrong. But blaming the one guy in your team who does perform seems like insanity. From 1993-95 Ablett kicked 3 successive tons (124, 129 & 122). Not a bad return for a player over 30 I would have thought. Apparently not - it was his fault we didn't win the flag. Of course, it's so obvious.

So I guess Skilton wasn't great either right? South's troubles were caused by him selfishly winning 3 Brownlows but failing to inspire his teammates.

 

[Midas]

Yes he was - for the entire 1995 season. Kicked 122 goals, won his 3rd successive Coleman medal, also captained Victoria the day Whitten did a lap of honour before the game. If Ablett was so ordinary, how come the team he captained made the Grand Final (yes I know we didn't win it) and North with Carey didn't?

Co captain if I remember correctly and was woeful in the Grand Final when you were absolutely pumped.

And he kicked a truckload of points, and was selfish, and doesn;t even compare to Dunstall as a player.

Bullsh*t. You could not be more wrong. But blaming the one guy in your team who does perform seems like insanity. From 1993-95 Ablett kicked 3 successive tons (124, 129 & 122). Not a bad return for a player over 30 I would have thought. Apparently not - it was his fault we didn't win the flag. Of course, it's so obvious.

So I guess Skilton wasn't great either right? South's troubles were caused by him selfishly winning 3 Brownlows but failing to inspire his teammates.

Not blaming him, just saying he never bought others into the game which may be the reason he was able to do so many memorable things.

How many times did he kick around a corner and miss when he could have created opportunities for others by dishing off. How many of his teammates gave up running past because of this deficiency in his game. How many training sessions did he miss.

Not saying he is not a champion, just saying he is massively overrated given the fundamentals of team sports are about making the group better, and special players could do that by being uncompromising about what's expected. Ablett could never demand that.

As I said, give me Carey, Voss , Hird , even Dunstall. Good players don't let clubs kow tow to them like Ablett did, they create the culture of success and, embrace it and become custodians of it.

Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick Above.

Ablett wasn't within a bull's roar of that of brnging that critical dynamic to his football club, and I believe the kow towing and worshipping of his individuality is the main reason the briliant Cat sides of the early 90's never claimed the ultimate prize.

Fantastic individual, not the best player by a long way.

 

[Partridge]

Not blaming him, just saying he never bought others into the game which may be the reason he was able to do so many memorable things.

How many times did he kick around a corner and miss when he could have created opportunities for others by dishing off. How many of his teammates gave up running past because of this deficiency in his game. How many training sessions did he miss.

The training session thing is overblown. It was certainly true under Devine (although exaggerated), it pretty much ceased completely under Blight. I understand the argument about "team player" but footy was a little different then. Ablett was a full on attacking player - no defensive side at all. He wasn't alone either.

It's a very fine line. You look around now and every team has forwards that will happily pass the ball off. We suffered Kingsley who did not want to kick goals himself. Give me a selfish player willing to have a crack any day.

You would have seen plenty of Carey - how many times did he kick great goals from 55, 60 metres out? If you were to purely play the "team orientated" theory a kick to the top of the square would have been better. But you didn't want Carey to pass the ball off and neither you should, as like Ablett he was the best kick in the side and more often than not (way more often) he delivered.

I'm not being nasty, but I just think we'll have to agree to disagree. And believe me I'm the most brutally honest Geelong supporter you'll find. There's no acceptance of coming second here in my twisted mind.

 

[RhEF JC]

I think you can sum up the difference between Ablett and Carey like so:
Crowds of people went to watch carey because he was a champion; Ablett was a champion because crowds of people went to watch him.

 

[SAYNTS.A1]

Where's the option of - other - or none of above?

 

[HUCKLEBERRY]

1950s Whitten

1960s Hart

1970s Matthews

1980s Weightman

1990s Carey / Ablett