Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[Coops93]

And I was talking about the children and teens but this is a spectacular derail that I hope the mods clean up

Fair, that was my initial reaction when reading it.

 

[Mr_Plow]

I think we should give him a senior advisory role. Rather than replace Teague.

Unfortunately, I suspect (and hope) Teague and Lloyd era has come to an end. We just haven't been able to attract any critical mass of talent/insight into the coaches box in the last 3 years. Things need to change.

 

[LanceRomance]

Unfortunately, I suspect (and hope) Teague and Lloyd era has come to an end. We just haven't been able to attract any critical mass of talent/insight into the coaches box in the last 3 years. Things need to change.

It's probably the Lloyd part... Though tbh, I have no idea what happens behind closed doors

 

[Mr_Plow]

It's probably the Lloyd part... Though tbh, I have no idea what happens behind closed doors

Me too, but I can only judge Lloyd on how he manages his football department, which has been pretty shit.

 

[CJMB]

Allow him to select his own assistant coaching staff. Retain Luke Power, everyone else is free to go. Dale Amos and Ross Lyon can have a conversation and see if they fit moving forward. Bring in an accomplished operator as the new football boss as well, as a priority. Review complete and actioned.

Power & O'Keefe might be the two that are safe. I did have Amos in that list, not so sure now. Not sure on Kreuzer, might get a better idea over the next couple of weeks with TDK's work, Pitto wasn't really helping MK's case earlier in the year.

Ross would definitely want to have a say with his assistants, as would any incoming coach (and why DT didn't want to make any changes still amazes me).

Surely Lloyd has to go. Shirley...

Not sure if he'd want/accept the HOF job, but maybe Wells would be interested in being involved at some level. Want someone who actually knows what they're doing, and what a successful club does.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Me too, but I can only judge Lloyd on how he manages his football department, which has been pretty sh*t.

There's nothing wrong with that way of judgement though, as long as the evidence is considered thoughtfully.

For years we had no way of 'looking' inside a star yet knew a lot of how they worked. We can't see past the cmb yet we know of the big bang.

Humans are wonderfully good at piecing together clues to understand things they can't see.

 

[blue healer]

I'm gradually coming around to this too...

Hard to see myself ever coming round to this.

 

[Gethelred]

While I agree with pretty much all of that, I feel like if we were going well, most of us would largely not worry about that stuff.

I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of fans who talk about giving up on the AFL also support struggling teams. That said, it's only natural.

Call it funny, but I didn't feel this way at all from 2015-17. I was more than content to sit through it; my impression of the competition was that it was going through a rough patch at the end of an era. I watched all the games and thoroughly enjoyed them.

Now, I watch the games and spend an awful lot of time wondering what the **** I'm even doing. I'm watching in the vaguest hope that maybe, this weekend, I might get to see a game of footy break out, and then if it does praying to the footy gods that the coaches don't stifle it.

What's happening out there at the moment even between the good teams isn't footy anymore, not really. They - the AFL - have kind of exposed it to be a slightly more unwritten version of WWE; the result isn't penned before the start of the games, but the narratives are predetermined, the players and their images shaped and coifed to ensure maximum enjoyment. It isn't enough to know that player x is a bloody good backman; no, we have to know about their baking habit and their backgrounds and their twitch stream; we need to know about the obstacles in their lives, and how well they get on with the commentary team via exceptionally shitty interviews. They write the headlines and the articles before the games, and pen the details in as they happen. If the unexpected occurs, then they reach for a list of tropes to apply from each team and work with those; it's why games which we win has Cripps or Doc in the bests despite neither really having good years.

And the games themselves, they're barely spectacles. Once, who you were didn't matter, what mattered was that you went in for the ball and wanted it more than the other bloke. But now, you've got packs of 15 players tapping and avoiding taking possession for fear of being tackled; you've got players who want it more getting pinged for holding the ball and incorrect disposal multiple times per game because the rules reward the person second to the ball. What's in the back? What's a high contact free kick, unless you're a marquee player?

You have uncontested marks all over the backline, because teams are simply too good at blocking and the umpires not good enough at picking it up. You are more likely to get a free kick for chopping the arms or body contact than you are to take a contested mark inside forward 50. You are more likely to get a high free kick or an in the back than you are to kick a goalsneak's goal from within congestion. You are more likely to win a dropping the ball free than you are to get an in the back.

What's a suspendable act, if you're a marquee player?

This isn't much to do with where we are on the ladder; it might be another reason to feel worse about it, but before I was a massive Carlton fan I was a fan of the sport itself.

And the sport is in a borderline nonexistent state at present.

 

[koutaaa]

Right now Carlton fc is a club on its knees. We are a laughing stock of the AFL, other club supporters and slowly our own supporters are laughing and have had enough. If the club stuff this review/coaching process up it will be the final blow for so many

 

[The Fantom]

Right now Carlton fc is a club on its knees. We are a laughing stock of the AFL, other club supporters and slowly our own supporters are laughing and have had enough. If the club stuff this review/coaching process up it will be the final blow for so many

That has to be the biggest overreaction of the year.

 

[Doro]

Right now Carlton fc is a club on its knees. We are a laughing stock of the AFL, other club supporters and slowly our own supporters are laughing and have had enough. If the club stuff this review/coaching process up it will be the final blow for so many

We've been disappointing. Not sure we are a laughing stock or on our knees though.

 

[koutaaa]

That has to be the biggest overreaction of the year.

You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think otherwise. We are already losing the younger generation of supporters, middle age are giving up the older still live in the glory days..

Our rebuild is done and we look miles off it

 

[azlou]

No I reckon Walsh would easily walk approach them that way, depending on the context. If they were just in the coffee shop or something saying "Oh gday boys how's it going?" Would be no issue at all in that social environment.

Just about the only context I'd say it isn't is if it were something like in a meeting room or sales pitch etc.

I think Walsh would be more formal and deferential he’d use there names in my opinion
Why isn’t it ok in a board room or presentation surely it’s similar to walking up to people you haven’t met and saying you underdeveloped men how’s it going
In a board room you want to show respect and etiquette the same should be shown to people you don’t know
Now if you don’t know it’s a slight put down it’s not a big deal people copy there parents and peers
I think it’s a small put down and I know some would take a small or large amount of offence so I wouldn’t use it
Unless they where under 24 then they are boys that’s why it’s probably appropriate for the coach to say it
Words have power and sometimes you don’t even know why something makes you uncomfortable
I would never term mine or others children cheeky buggers because I know what words mean
Like said I don’t take great offence but I do observe that person I’m more guarded till I’m shown a reason to let it down
I make sure I go very deep on a handshake with someone like that
If there not going to approach me with the honour and respect as an equal 9/10 there dickhxads from my experience

 

[koutaaa]

We've been disappointing. Not sure we are a laughing stock or on our knees though.

Don’t turn on the news? Don’t Interact with other supporters outside of this forum?

 

[T2B_]

Call it funny, but I didn't feel this way at all from 2015-17. I was more than content to sit through it; my impression of the competition was that it was going through a rough patch at the end of an era. I watched all the games and thoroughly enjoyed them.

Now, I watch the games and spend an awful lot of time wondering what the fu** I'm even doing. I'm watching in the vaguest hope that maybe, this weekend, I might get to see a game of footy break out, and then if it does praying to the footy gods that the coaches don't stifle it.

What's happening out there at the moment even between the good teams isn't footy anymore, not really. They - the AFL - have kind of exposed it to be a slightly more unwritten version of WWE; the result isn't penned before the start of the games, but the narratives are predetermined, the players and their images shaped and coifed to ensure maximum enjoyment. It isn't enough to know that player x is a bloody good backman; no, we have to know about their baking habit and their backgrounds and their twitch stream; we need to know about the obstacles in their lives, and how well they get on with the commentary team via exceptionally shitty interviews. They write the headlines and the articles before the games, and pen the details in as they happen. If the unexpected occurs, then they reach for a list of tropes to apply from each team and work with those; it's why games which we win has Cripps or Doc in the bests despite neither really having good years.

And the games themselves, they're barely spectacles. Once, who you were didn't matter, what mattered was that you went in for the ball and wanted it more than the other bloke. But now, you've got packs of 15 players tapping and avoiding taking possession for fear of being tackled; you've got players who want it more getting pinged for holding the ball and incorrect disposal multiple times per game because the rules reward the person second to the ball. What's in the back? What's a high contact free kick, unless you're a marquee player?

You have uncontested marks all over the backline, because teams are simply too good at blocking and the umpires not good enough at picking it up. You are more likely to get a free kick for chopping the arms or body contact than you are to take a contested mark inside forward 50. You are more likely to get a high free kick or an in the back than you are to kick a goalsneak's goal from within congestion. You are more likely to win a dropping the ball free than you are to get an in the back.

What's a suspendable act, if you're a marquee player?

This isn't much to do with where we are on the ladder; it might be another reason to feel worse about it, but before I was a massive Carlton fan I was a fan of the sport itself.

And the sport is in a borderline nonexistent state at present.

That's fair; context is everything.

You have made me think, as in past years I'd watch plenty of non-Carlton games, so you know, footy in general. Last couple years, particularly this year, I mostly only watch our games to be perfectly honest. Make of that what you will...

 

[Wickzki]

Call it funny, but I didn't feel this way at all from 2015-17. I was more than content to sit through it; my impression of the competition was that it was going through a rough patch at the end of an era. I watched all the games and thoroughly enjoyed them.

2015-2017 was the honeymoon period of the reset.

Now, I watch the games and spend an awful lot of time wondering what the fu** I'm even doing. I'm watching in the vaguest hope that maybe, this weekend, I might get to see a game of footy break out, and then if it does praying to the footy gods that the coaches don't stifle it.

Reset has proven to be a false dawn. Not to say that dawn isn't coming. However, we're an increasingly frustrating team to watch. We only play good football in patches. Patches that are infrequent and often followed up by mindblowing frustration.

What's happening out there at the moment even between the good teams isn't footy anymore, not really. They - the AFL - have kind of exposed it to be a slightly more unwritten version of WWE; the result isn't penned before the start of the games, but the narratives are predetermined, the players and their images shaped and coifed to ensure maximum enjoyment.

Been this way for years and years and years.

I vividly recall attending a night game against North Melbourne during the Judd era where the narrative for the entire week going throughout all of the media was celebrating North's status as "Friday Night Specialists" Sure enough the match played out that way. Almost the entire night felt scripted to play out that way.

We may have even won that game. I remember Lindsay Thomas going off though. There was one game in 2012 and another in 2013 - we won in 2013, lost in 2012. I can't remember exactly which of the two it was only the narrative of the match.

And the games themselves, they're barely spectacles. Once, who you were didn't matter, what mattered was that you went in for the ball and wanted it more than the other bloke. But now, you've got packs of 15 players tapping and avoiding taking possession for fear of being tackled; you've got players who want it more getting pinged for holding the ball and incorrect disposal multiple times per game because the rules reward the person second to the ball. What's in the back? What's a high contact free kick, unless you're a marquee player?

You have uncontested marks all over the backline, because teams are simply too good at blocking and the umpires not good enough at picking it up. You are more likely to get a free kick for chopping the arms or body contact than you are to take a contested mark inside forward 50. You are more likely to get a high free kick or an in the back than you are to kick a goalsneak's goal from within congestion. You are more likely to win a dropping the ball free than you are to get an in the back.

What's a suspendable act, if you're a marquee player?

If you haven't already you should give this a listen: https://whistleblowerpod.com/

People will tell you that it doesn't happen.

People will swear up and down that the contests aren't "rigged."

This all went down when I was living in the United States during and after I was working in basketball.

I'll tell you that none of my peers were at all shocked when this came out and that absolutely none of them believed that it was a single rogue figure.

The NBA may dwarf the AFL but there's major money in the AFL. What I experienced firsthand living in the US is probably the reason why the umpiring makes me act out the way that it does today but there's a reason for it. What you've described does happen. It's not a very well-kept secret. Sadly, those in a position to do something about it are also those in positions who have the most to lose when/if something is done about it.

The most obvious example (I believe) of it is watching Dusty Martin with his fendoff. The AFL has enabled it to be a marquee move. For anybody else it'd be a freekick against.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Right now Carlton fc is a club on its knees. We are a laughing stock of the AFL, other club supporters and slowly our own supporters are laughing and have had enough. If the club stuff this review/coaching process up it will be the final blow for so many

The less interest the club shows in other supporters laughing, and Carlton supporters being fed up, the better. If either of those groups had their way the Carlton coach would be sacked every third week

 

[Smegger]

Right now Carlton fc is a club on its knees. We are a laughing stock of the AFL, other club supporters and slowly our own supporters are laughing and have had enough. If the club stuff this review/coaching process up it will be the final blow for so many

Wouldn't say on our knees. More like just standing up trying to get our balance.

From conversations with other team's supporters i usually get one of these responses.

1. Hate our club and happy to see us struggle.
2. See the potential with some real youthful talent.
3. Pity.

It's the third one that irks me. Reminds me of Talking Heads - And you might ask yourself... how did we get here? Watching the games go by.

 

[ctwenty1]

The less interest the club shows in other supporters laughing, and Carlton supporters being fed up, the better. If either of those groups had their way the Carlton coach would be sacked every third week

and we would draft a new list every six months (we would hit the mid season draft HARD)

 

[katmanblue]

Do you seriously think either of these blokes will be there long term?

Gov min 2 more years, I'd guess Eddie will get one more.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

Wouldn't say on our knees. More like just standing up trying to get our balance.

From conversations with other team's supporters i usually get one of these responses.

1. Hate our club and happy to see us struggle.
2. See the potential with some real youthful talent.
3. Pity.

It's the third one that irks me. Reminds me of Talking Heads - And you might ask yourself... how did we get here? Watching the games go by.

Unfortunately I get a lot a laughter. Things like "how are you blokes going to to this year"... followed by said laughter

It used to wind me up but not anymore...

To be fair, Richmond used to cop that as well in my friendship circle, until they didn’t...

4 of my really good mates are Hawks fans though, "it ain’t 2015 anymore" is locked and loaded with them these days

 

[Gethelred]

Don’t turn on the news? Don’t Interact with other supporters outside of this forum?

That's a bit of a pisser considering who you're talking to.

 

[RattAttack]

Attended a lunch today at The Australian Club (I know, I know....terrible place).

Anyway....sat nearby Mark Korda. 3 things he was happy to disclose:

1. Collingwood will not be hiring Clarkson. Apparently 'they can't afford him'. (Not sure what that means...)
2. Sayers 'has been badgering Clarkson for months now'. Blues are still in his ear but Clarkson remains uncommitted.
3. No love lost between Korda and Eddie. He knows Eddie is trying to depose him and is right in Jeff Browne's corner.

 

[zeeCFC]

Attended a lunch today at The Australian Club (I know, I know....terrible place).

Anyway....sat nearby Mark Korda. 3 things he was happy to disclose:

1. Collingwood will not be hiring Clarkson. Apparently 'they can't afford him'. (Not sure what that means...)
2. Sayers 'has been badgering Clarkson for months now'. Blues are still in his ear but Clarkson remains uncommitted.
3. No love lost between Korda and Eddie. He knows Eddie is trying to depose him and is right in Jeff Browne's corner.

was this before or after the child sacrifice to the lizard god?

 

[Aphrodite]

Right now Carlton fc is a club on its knees. We are a laughing stock of the AFL, other club supporters and slowly our own supporters are laughing and have had enough. If the club stuff this review/coaching process up it will be the final blow for so many

You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think otherwise. We are already losing the younger generation of supporters, middle age are giving up the older still live in the glory days..

Our rebuild is done and we look miles off it

Didn't you say you were done with this F*****N Club last year.