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Player Watch Jordan Dawson

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ams4crows said:
It's the elite kick that makes me most excited, Fog must be watching this highlights and think I legit could get 20 goals this season just off the boot of Dawson delivering the ball to me
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His vision is a major upgrade on Seedsman IMO. Actually lowers the eyes when kicking into the forward line.

All our forwards wont know what to do with balls kicked to the advantage side, instead of deep to a 3 against 1
 
Sanders said:
clubs can delist players but they canā€™t get out of paying them. See Stengle, T.
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Somewhat true for most contracts, though Stengle definitely didn't get any further match fees or individual/team performance bonuses after he was sacked so we ended up paying him less than we would have in the long run.
 
OK, call me a bad supporter, but I haven't around to watching the Dawson highlights until just now.

We have done well. And TBH I don't blame Swans supporters for being salty. Pick 15-18 is probably a fair price, maybe slightly unders, but they've lsot a good 'un.
 
Vader said:
Meanwhile in the real world, players frequently request trades while they still have 1-2-3 years left on their contract, specifying their destination club... and 95% of the time they get where they want to go. O'Keefe, Papley & Gibbs didn't get where they wanted to go - but they are very much the exceptions to the rule (and Gibbs got there eventually, while still having 2 years left on his contract).

Players hold the power of veto in every trade. They cannot be forced to be traded to another club against their will, regardless of their contract status. They have almost all the power.
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Hardly the exceptions. In the real world, most of the time contracted players move is because they are given permission to explore trades by their clubs because they are unlikely to feature in the seniors - or the club wants salary cap relief as with Collingwood last year. I don't think Treloar or Stephenson wanted to end up at the Bulldogs or North Melbourne, and I'm pretty sure Treloar had agreed to back end his contract to help Collingwood out and they just traded him when it got to the nice juicy part. Did the veto help either of them make Collingwood want them more or promise to play them in the seniors every week so they get their nice match payments and performance bonuses? Nope, they got told they weren't wanted and they should cash in elsewhere while their currency was high or risk getting moved on at the end of their contracts for less $$ after rotting in the reserves all year.

Contracted players are made to see out their contracts more often than not when it suits the club, not the player. Fantasia is another example of a player who tried to move whilst under contract and had to wait until it expired. Joe Daniher wanted to move to Sydney whilst under contract and Essendon made him stay put. We made Brad Crouch see out his final year, even though we shouldn't have. Clubs by far have the balance of power and only supporters believe otherwise, because it suits our interests to think that way.
 
arrowman said:
OK, call me a bad supporter, but I haven't around to watching the Dawson highlights until just now.

We have done well. And TBH I don't blame Swans supporters for being salty. Pick 15-18 is probably a fair price, maybe slightly unders, but they've lsot a good 'un.
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Quality player, although if you only judge based on highlights packages then pretty much every player would be worth a top 10 pick :p
 

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ltdamn said:
Hardly the exceptions. In the real world, most of the time contracted players move is because they are given permission to explore trades by their clubs because they are unlikely to feature in the seniors - or the club wants salary cap relief as with Collingwood last year. I don't think Treloar or Stephenson wanted to end up at the Bulldogs or North Melbourne, and I'm pretty sure Treloar had agreed to back end his contract to help Collingwood out and they just traded him when it got to the nice juicy part. Did the veto help either of them make Collingwood want them more or promise to play them in the seniors every week so they get their nice match payments and performance bonuses? Nope, they got told they weren't wanted and they should cash in elsewhere while their currency was high or risk getting moved on at the end of their contracts for less $$ after rotting in the reserves all year.

Contracted players are made to see out their contracts more often than not when it suits the club, not the player. Fantasia is another example of a player who tried to move whilst under contract and had to wait until it expired. Joe Daniher wanted to move to Sydney whilst under contract and Essendon made him stay put. We made Brad Crouch see out his final year, even though we shouldn't have. Clubs by far have the balance of power and only supporters believe otherwise, because it suits our interests to think that way.
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Think Charlie Cameron & Mitch McNuggets, as just two of Adelaide's examples - and Gibbs coming back the other way, and that's just the last few years at Adelaide.

Yes, there are contracted players who are forced out by their teams - but the players still have the final say. If Treloar really wanted to stay at Collingwood, there was not a damn thing they could have done to force him to accept the Doggies as his new home.

At the end of the day, the player has right of veto - and that gives them all the power.

In an ideal world, clubs would have all the power over contracted players, with the right to trade them against their will; conversely, clubs would have no powers whatsoever to prevent uncontracted players from walking to another club. At best, contracted players should be able to request a trade to a specific state, they should not be allowed to dictate a specific club within that state. The AFLPA will never agree to any of this.
 
Vader said:
Think Charlie Cameron & Mitch McNuggets, as just two of Adelaide's examples - and Gibbs coming back the other way, and that's just the last few years at Adelaide.

Yes, there are contracted players who are forced out by their teams - but the players still have the final say. If Treloar really wanted to stay at Collingwood, there was not a damn thing they could have done to force him to accept the Doggies as his new home.

At the end of the day, the player has right of veto - and that gives them all the power.

In an ideal world, clubs would have all the power over contracted players, with the right to trade them against their will; conversely, clubs would have no powers whatsoever to prevent uncontracted players from walking to another club. At best, contracted players should be able to request a trade to a specific state, they should not be allowed to dictate a specific club within that state. The AFLPA will never agree to any of this.
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In the case of contracted players, I've got no problem with them requesting a trade to a specific club simply because their club has absolute veto power over that. If they don't get a price they're happy with, they don't lose anything - the player can't just walk out and put himself in the PSD like an uncontracted player can.

It's in cases of uncontracted players where the selling club has basically zero leverage unless they have a very early pick in the PSD and are willing to re-draft the player on his nominated contract terms just to make a point, and as far as I'm aware that's never happened?

I'd like to see clubs have the ability to trade contracted players at will, but as you say, the AFLPA will never agree to it. If they did then it would presumably require a re-work of the free agent rules to prevent the free agency timer starting again when the player gets traded to his new club. I suspect the only way this might get off the ground with the AFLPA would be if players got free agency as soon as their first contract expired.
 

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arrowman said:
Ha! I choose highlights when the player is coming to us! :) But yes, apart from that you can see the qualities he has.

- Poor guy is on a hiding to nothing with Crows supporters right now. If he doesn't get 3x BOG in his first 3 games.... :$
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Nah, we'll be expecting whoever we take at pick 4 to get BOG in at least one of those games :p
 
If you want to assess this trade purely compared to other similar deals (looking at how the market turned out for similar half back-ish types):

1. Essendon had to part way with pick 8 and later picks for Adam Saad

2. Geelong is asking for Pick 19 in a straight swap for Jordan Clark, or Pick 22 and a future third rounder for Clark. Looks like most likely they will get Pick 22 at this stage.

Comparatively:
- Dawson is younger (24 vs 26 at age of being traded) and has more positional flexibility than Saad (Saad is more a pure half back than a half back/winger like Dawson). Got offered reportedly the same dollar value contract as Dawson (650k a season)

- Dawson has more exposed form and production, and is arguably far lower risk than Clark (although I personally and subjectively still think Clark has a high ceiling if he can get a continuous run at it and a clear half back creator role at Freo ... he had some injury/sickness interuptions at Geelong, and was stunted to an extent by Scarlett not wanting to play him). Clark probably does have some ability to push up on a wing, but played his best footy in his first season at Geelong and in WA in draft year off a half back flank

- Dawson has proved to be far more of a goal kicker than either of them at AFL level. You could argue some of that was his role in Sydney's team and also their play style, but, the Crows at least know he's capable of it and would be silly not to play him in a similar role to get that goal kicking production out of him in the coming years

Purely based off what we gave for him which let's say is pick 15-18, compared to two other comparable players, I'd say we've at the very least come away with a pass mark, but more leaning towards a grade one above a pass. Providing Dawson continues to develop into his potential into his later 20's (and doesn't regress, or, we ask him to play a different role or in a different way and his production dips), and that Melbourne first rounder doesn't slip too far towards the top 10, the mark gets better and better obviously.

I found this article interesting in the lead up to the trade, comparing Dawson and Cerra - https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/b31a4c27690233796681cb150f9fbef8

The thing I found myself thinking was, you could have the best half back/winger in the comp, but I think the cap for their market value in my opinion is around that pick 10 mark (providing they have positional flexibility and some elite attribute/s, otherwise it's closer to 15 to 20).

As we saw again on Grand Final day with Petracca and Oliver, and we've seen in grand finals past with Dusty, I'd probably only give up a top 5 or top 10 pick for a mid or mid/fwd, simply because of their ability to influence games unlike any other position (the game starts from the centre bounce, and you win games ultimately by getting a higher score than the other team ... if you can win the centre bounce and either kick goals or get the ball to your fwds as a player, you're going to be very influential on the game)

Anyway - not a bad trade overall by the Crows.

Would like to see us continue to work on playing a winning game style, and also putting our players (including Dawson) in roles that help them and the team produce and win.
 
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