List Mgmt. 2021 Draft Picks part deux: 4/33/75

[Deaneus!]

thanks to Lore as always

AFL Draft Pick Value Calculator - Draftguru

 

[Danger in Texas]

It's likely neither, more it's just a symptom a wider issue, which was the club imploded in late 2019 and was a toxic place to be for a while beforehand. We really weren't developing anywhere well for the three years prior, and the kids we were couldn't wait to get out of dodge.

Yeah, I'm also a fan of where our midfield is going, and on top of Taylor, I also really like the Nankervis addition. You also hit on the player I'm hoping we're thinking his future in on the inside in Cook once he fills out and builds a larger endurance base, seeing he just seems like the player with very few weaknesses to his game.

Interesting point. I'm not giving the club the green light for focusing less on young player development during this period, but for the period we really zoned in on contending (i.e. 2017-19), the progress in our younger players that are still with the club was less than ideal (bar for Doedee and Milera, the latter of whom's progress has now been incredibly stunted). Any others, such as Cameron, Lever, Gov, Greenwood and Keath, left during that period

Over the last two seasons, I think the fact we've actually 1) put dedicated effort into developing and nurturing talents for our next push, and 2) created a positive culture, which, from the outside, appears healthy and focused; is now putting us on the right track. It's just a matter of continuing this path and not getting distracted

 

[Danger in Texas]

Either our drafting and recruiting for mids was ave for at least a 5 year period or our developing or roles weren't conducive.

I do like our group now and when they do a redo of the draft in 5 years everyone's going to bemoan letting Taylor slide. This and Cook are great moves.

I *really* like Taylor too; that said, I really thought we got a gem in Poholke five years back

The talent players show at junior level is one thing, the way they are developed to prepare them for AFL footy is another. I agree the signs with Cook are really promising thus far, so that is a positive

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Size wasn't a consideration
Elite skills were.

I watch a highlights package of Russell Ebert the other day and thought not much has change in 40 years. Dusty almost a clone.

Highlights package hey ....watching him live was way better

No, nothing has changed .....moreso gameplans, which require a different type of player, .....but the greats would have been great today ...because they had the traits of todays footballer, playing in a much slower game back 40 years

How many players can kick 40+ mtrs now with any accuracy .....they've become 15-20mtr specialists ...anything 40+ is just in the general vacinity

 

[WaynesWorld19]

They were people who were desperately hoping Callaghan would fall to us.

Given GWS reached for Leeh Aleer at pick #13 as a tall DEF .....it's fair to assume they did in fact consider Gibcus at #2

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I *really* like Taylor too; that said, I really thought we got a gem in Poholke five years back

Nothing wrong with Poholke except his attitude .....In U18 he was always the 3rd banana, the support mid to the U18 star players .....he lacked the swagger & self belief to see himself as an elite mid

Some players just know they're the man .....others get out of the way to allow the "man" to get the ball ....that was Poholke

 

[Danger in Texas]

Nothing wrong with Poholke except his attitude .....In U18 he was always the 3rd banana, the support mid to the U18 star players .....he lacked the swagger & self belief to see himself as an elite mid

Some players just know they're the man .....others get out of the way to allow the "man" to get the ball ....that was Poholke

I get it, but Poholke was the best 18yo Stingrays midfielder drafted in ‘16. At state level that obviously wasn’t the case, but he was definitely a standout out of his same-year peers at Dandenong

That said, your logic might be a helpful thing with Taylor - he’s won 10 straight B&F’s, he’s been the best at every club level he’s played - he’ll continue to have that belief in himself. Also, he was the main midfielder for the Cannons in the latter part of the season (ie when Goater went to defence) - hopefully that belief continues into his professional career

 

[Sanders]

I get it, but Poholke was the best 18yo Stingrays midfielder drafted in ‘16. At state level that obviously wasn’t the case, but he was definitely a standout out of his same-year peers at Dandenong

That said, your logic might be a helpful thing with Taylor - he’s won 10 straight B&F’s, he’s been the best at every club level he’s played - he’ll continue to have that belief in himself. Also, he was the main midfielder for the Cannons in the latter part of the season (ie when Goater went to defence) - hopefully that belief continues into his professional career

the flip side is that he might not be used to set backs, not being the best at all times. When it doesn’t go his way might be a real test for him

I don’t necessarily think having won all these B&F’s equips him well to being a professional

 

[GreyCrow]

I think Jarrod Cotton was always winning under age awards - not sure he can claim any stellar career - certainly a handy one but not the one starting to be projected for Taylor

 

[hey shorty]

I think Jarrod Cotton was always winning under age awards - not sure he can claim any stellar career - certainly a handy one but not the one starting to be projected for Taylor

Was a terrible coach too.

 

[Golumless]

Highlights package hey ....watching him live was way better

No, nothing has changed .....moreso gameplans, which require a different type of player, .....but the greats would have been great today ...because they had the traits of todays footballer, playing in a much slower game back 40 years

How many players can kick 40+ mtrs now with any accuracy .....they've become 15-20mtr specialists ...anything 40+ is just in the general vacinity

Some would certainly thrive, however some greats are a product of their time. For instance a lot of the key forwards and defenders would be exposed today. Especially the slower/less athletic ones because of their limited midfield ability. For every Brereton who'd find a way to star, there is a Lockett who'd I wouldn't particularly rate chances wise because of versatility questions and their strengths being neutered by how the game has changed.

To think nothings changed is a rather naive POV, and of course thinking players way back when were more skilled is just nostalgia. More the game changed. It's much easier to come off as skilled in an era where man on man is the go to compared to a zonal, more high pressure defense.

How many players today can kick 40+m with accuracy? The vast majority, if given time, space, and with minimal congestion ahead as has always been the case. Same as any era.

 

[StonesThrow]

the flip side is that he might not be used to set backs, not being the best at all times. When it doesn’t go his way might be a real test for him

I don’t necessarily think having won all these B&F’s equips him well to being a professional

One test of this was the u18 challenge game I linked a while back.

He was a 4th string mid behind Daicos, Ward and Goater (clearly those 3 were preferred). I think he racked up 22 touches and still had influence on the game, albeit not as much as Daicos and Ward.

 

[George Kramer]

Inside the draft: The tension, tactics and trades that didn't come off

Cal Twomey goes inside the hectic first round of the 2021 NAB AFL Draft, revealing whose phone ran hot and which clubs were desperate to trade up

www.afl.com.au

 

[CROW in BALI]

No flag next year and Hinkley will be the longest serving nil-premiership coach ever.

Already is , they have only been in the league 24 years , don’t let them brainwash you .

 

[Mego Red]

Hately is someone we were willing to trade for and would have probably offered more if we didn't have 1st pick in PSD.
Gibson such a Carlton pick.
I didn't include Sig

We have spent a lot of picks to built a midfield and plug gaps

You can't include players that we took with garbage picks or accepted because they were free.

If you're looking for an issue to have with the club, it should be the LACK of early picks used on midfielders.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How many players today can kick 40+m with accuracy? The vast majority, if given time and space, and with minimal congestion ahead as has always been the case. Same as any era.

I doubt this TBH

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Some would certainly thrive, however some greats are a product of their time. For instance a lot of the key forwards and defenders would be exposed today. Especially the slower/less athletic ones because of their limited midfield ability. For every Brereton who'd find a way to star, there is a Lockett who'd I wouldn't particularly rate chances wise because of versatility questions and their strengths being neutered by how the game has changed.

You don't think Lockett would kick a bag in todays game ....I'm shocked ....they'd still play him one out in the goalsquare

In fact that fwd isolation has just started to SLOWLY creep back in .....but the clubs are simply not drafting those stay at home FF's

I agee re defenders .....think my comments were more aimed at the midfielders ....they would still absolutely floursish .... Robran (midfielder at 6'4) ...Bagshaw, Day, Halbert, Head

 

[Golumless]

I doubt this TBH

No one is stopping you from being wrong, providing it doesn't harm others.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

No one is stopping you from being wrong, providing it doesn't harm others.

 

[Sanders]

You can't include players that we took with garbage picks or accepted because they were free.

If you're looking for an issue to have with the club, it should be the LACK of early picks used on midfielders.

nah. The club clearly has expended a lot of draft capital on mids without much to show for it.

it’s not been for a lack of effort that we’re lacking in that part of the ground

 

[Sanders]

You don't think Lockett would kick a bag in todays game ....I'm shocked ....they'd still play him one out in the goalsquare

In fact that fwd isolation has just started to SLOWLY creep back in .....but the clubs are simply not drafting those stay at home FF's

I agee re defenders .....think my comments were more aimed at the midfielders ....they would still absolutely floursish .... Robran (midfielder at 6'4) ...Bagshaw, Day, Halbert, Head

I remember Dunstall kicking bags in his final season on just one leg. This at a time when the modern game was being claimed had moved past the great FF’s

thing was, he spent most of the season in the goal square, hobbled, but still so strong in the upper body and able to read the flight better than anyone

these blokes didn’t kick 1,000+ goals by accident

 

[WaynesWorld19]

nah. The club clearly has expended a lot of draft capital on mids without much to show for it.

it’s not been for a lack of effort that we’re lacking in that part of the ground

Agree .....I'd say we've lacked audacity and dare at times

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I remember Dunstall kicking bags in his final season on just one leg. This at a time when the modern game was being claimed had moved past the great FF’s

thing was, he spent most of the season in the goal square, hobbled, but still so strong in the upper body and able to read the flight better than anyone

these blokes didn’t kick 1,000+ goals by accident

It simply comes back to clubs not drafting those types of players .....at the same time the junior pathway also weeds the lockett types out .....gotta be able to do a 15+ beep test and have agility

Never mind that you can do what Lockett and Dunstall could do ......yep no fluke, but Dunstall wouldn't get drafted now

 

[Sanders]

It simply comes back to clubs not drafting those types of players .....at the same time the junior pathway also weeds the lockett types out .....gotta be able to do a 15+ beep test and have agility

Never mind that you can do what Lockett and Dunstall could do ......yep no fluke, but Dunstall wouldn't get drafted now

the only way Dunstall & Lockett wouldn’t get drafted is if they couldn’t perform at the junior levels against equivalent u/18’s players

and they would dominate like a prime Bernie Vince in the clubs on a Saturday night

 

[MRB37]

You don't think Lockett would kick a bag in todays game ....I'm shocked ....they'd still play him one out in the goalsquare

In fact that fwd isolation has just started to SLOWLY creep back in .....but the clubs are simply not drafting those stay at home FF's

I agee re defenders .....think my comments were more aimed at the midfielders ....they would still absolutely floursish .... Robran (midfielder at 6'4) ...Bagshaw, Day, Halbert, Head

Lockett's only problem would probably be getting suspended every other week.

 

[Sanders]

Lockett's only problem would probably be getting suspended every other week.

I wonder? On some levels this is completely fair, but on another he was subject to all sorts of dirty play & rough stuff to slow him down. It was this stuff he often retaliated against, because the defenders couldn’t put football him.

I don’t think you’d get away with all the scragging, pulling, off ball hits against him. He’s a beneficiary not a victim of the increased scrutiny

and if you have to play him fair perhaps he doesn’t feel quite the same need to * your s**t up in return