Opinion Non-Crows AFL 4: The Centre Cannot Hold

[Scorpus]

You want Dixon against bottom 10 teams. He monsters them.

But not against top 8 or in September.


His Footy iq is very low, I used to call him Hodor.

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You know you're doing well when Dixon is forced to get his cheap marks on the half back flank

 

[rocket18]

I guess I was l talking about his results as a footballer rather than his lack of "actual real ability". Who wants an aggressive key forward that is 200cm and 107kg anyway?

Lets just put an asterisk next to the fact that he was
Top 3 in the AFL for goals the past 2 years
Top 2 in the AFL for contested marks in 3 of the last 5 years (top 2 the last 2 years).
An All Australian in 2020.

I am blinded. Terrible terrible footballer and Port will be far worse without a player like him.

He has certainly dined out on Port being a top 5 team the last two years having very soft draws

He is the classic "looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane player".

Georgiades already a more dangerous player.

As someone mentioned would love to see Dixon v bottom 10 teams compared to Dixon v top 8 teams for the last two years.

 

[Mego Red]

Dixon far better than Jenkins.

Nope.

Compare Jenkins in 2017 with Dixon in 2020.

In their best season, Josh beats him in almost every way.

 

[Geoffa32]

Nope.

Compare Jenkins in 2017 with Dixon in 2020.

In their best season, Josh beats him in almost every way.

They really are different kind of players. Hard to compare.

Jenkins far more mobile, and worked harder. Those "Joe the Goose " goals weren't from him sitting in the goal square. Most were from him reading the play and beating his opponent with leg speed.

Dixon is an old school clunker. If not mark the ball create spillage.

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[AFC979810]

Nope.

Compare Jenkins in 2017 with Dixon in 2020.

In their best season, Josh beats him in almost every way.

Not so fast Junior.

A couple of points on that:

1. Dixon was the #1 forward taking the #1 defender. Jenkins was our #3 forward behind Betts/Walker.

2. Dixon was an All Australian CHF in 2020. 2nd in the league in Goals and #1 in Contested Marks. Top 10 in his clubs B&F. 8 Brownlow votes. Jenkins got 2 Brownlow votes.

3. Season in 2017 was significantly longer than in 2020. Games were also 20% longer in 2017 than 2020. S

Context is king.

And to back up the point further about why its an absurd comparison. In 2017 - 25 players kicked 35 goals or more in the AFL. In 2020 - 1 player kicked over 35 goals.

 

[skam85]

Nope.

Compare Jenkins in 2017 with Dixon in 2020.

In their best season, Josh beats him in almost every way.

Tex did take the best defender mostly in 2017 though whereas Dixon is the 'spearhead'.

A now-retired defender once told me playing on Jenkins in a particular game in late Sept 2017 "was like playing footy against my nanna"

 

[skam85]

Not so fast Junior.

A couple of points on that:

1. Dixon was the #1 forward taking the #1 defender. Jenkins was our #3 forward behind Betts/Walker.

2. Dixon was an All Australian CHF in 2020. 2nd in the league in Goals and #1 in Contested Marks. Top 10 in his clubs B&F. 8 Brownlow votes. Jenkins got 2 Brownlow votes.

3. Season in 2017 was significantly longer than in 2020. Games were also 20% longer in 2017 than 2020. S

Context is king.

And to back up the point further about why its an absurd comparison. In 2017 - 25 players kicked 35 goals or more in the AFL. In 2020 - 1 player kicked over 35 goals.

In all honesty I wouldn't want either in a forward line if my team was contending for a flag.

 

[AFC979810]

In all honesty I wouldn't want either in a forward line if my team was contending for a flag.

Interesting.

So in Ports team of 2020 who are you replacing Dixon with?

In 2017 who gets Jenkins spot in our lineup?

 

[Dirty Bird]

Just compared Charlie Dixon

22

Charlie Dixon

Age

35

Ht

200cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.6

5star

D

10.5

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.5

2star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

G

2.5

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

to Josh Jenkins

11

Josh Jenkins

Age

37

Ht

200cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.1

4star

HB

3.8

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.0

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.6

5star

2016-2021 for goals per game

vs top 4
Dixon 1.08
Jenkins 1.79

vs top 8
Dixon 1.47
Jenkins 2.16

vs bottom 10
Dixon 2.45
Jenkins 2.55

 

[skam85]

Interesting.

So in Ports team of 2020 who are you replacing Dixon with?

In 2017 who gets Jenkins spot in our lineup?

neither us or Port won the flag in 2017/20 so what does that tell you?

Richmond had two different and both successful flag-winning forward structures.

Both teams included Jack Riewoldt, so absolutely him over both of Dixon and Jenkins. 2020 had Tom Lynch as well who is also pretty handy.

 

[AFC979810]

neither us or Port won the flag in 2017/20 so what does that tell you?

Richmond had two different and both successful flag-winning forward structures.

Both teams included Jack Riewoldt, so absolutely him over both of Dixon and Jenkins. 2020 had Tom Lynch as well who is also pretty handy.

Wow man. Revolutionary commentary. No sh!t you want Jack Riewoldt over these two. He is a 3 time Coleman medalist, 3 time flag winner, 3 x all Australian and is 22nd on the All time Goalkicking list.

Jason Castagna is also a 3 time premiership forward for your reference. Mark Hutchings was a forward in the eagles 2018 flag. I mean Mitch Morton was a premiership hero in that Sydney forward line.

I want to build a premiership forward line with the quality of

Betts, Ablett, Mathews
Franklin, Carey, Martin

I would select all those players over Dixon and Jenkins. Quick someone send this to Mathew Nicks - I have found the formula.

 

[hugecannon]

Just compared Charlie Dixon to Josh Jenkins 2016-2021 for goals per game

vs top 4
Dixon 1.08
Jenkins 1.79

vs top 8
Dixon 1.47
Jenkins 2.16

vs bottom 10
Dixon 2.45
Jenkins 2.55

I always thought they’d make a good combination, Dixon playing closer to goal creating a contest and bringing the ball to ground and Jenkins as the more mobile CHF pushing up and down the ground.

surround them with some danger small and medium forwards and they’d be a real handful.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

 

[Geoffa32]

Not so fast Junior.

A couple of points on that:

1. Dixon was the #1 forward taking the #1 defender. Jenkins was our #3 forward behind Betts/Walker.

2. Dixon was an All Australian CHF in 2020. 2nd in the league in Goals and #1 in Contested Marks. Top 10 in his clubs B&F. 8 Brownlow votes. Jenkins got 2 Brownlow votes.

3. Season in 2017 was significantly longer than in 2020. Games were also 20% longer in 2017 than 2020. S

Context is king.

And to back up the point further about why its an absurd comparison. In 2017 - 25 players kicked 35 goals or more in the AFL. In 2020 - 1 player kicked over 35 goals.

How did he go in the two Finals in his 2020 AA season?

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[Geoffa32]

Interesting.

So in Ports team of 2020 who are you replacing Dixon with?

In 2017 who gets Jenkins spot in our lineup?

Westhoff would have been a good fit for our 2017.

He copped some stick, but I thought he was pretty good.

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[rocket18]

Just compared Charlie Dixon to Josh Jenkins 2016-2021 for goals per game

vs top 4
Dixon 1.08
Jenkins 1.79

vs top 8
Dixon 1.47
Jenkins 2.16

vs bottom 10
Dixon 2.45
Jenkins 2.55

Thanks for that, pretty much confirmed my eyeball assessment of him dining out on the bottom sides with the Powahs soft draws.

Significant reason on why the Powah have bombed in the finals, he ain't flash with a semi decent backline.

 

[Ramify]

If you don't see that saying no to recognising your teammates sexuality is innately prejudiced, then I don't know what to tell you.

It's completely different to feeling discomfort around a sponsor product. People CHOOSE to drink beer, or be Muslim. No one chooses to be gay.

Pride round doesn't "promote" gayness. Trust me, I can't imagine it needs promoting. Pride Round says that LGBT people can be safe and accepted within AFLW - except her actions show that no, people DON'T all accept them.

It is absolutely the same as refusing to wear an indigenous guernsey. Race and sexuality are just part of someone's humanness.

She recognises them. She bloody well plays with them..

 

[Mego Red]

Not so fast Junior.

A couple of points on that:

1. Dixon was the #1 forward taking the #1 defender. Jenkins was our #3 forward behind Betts/Walker.

2. Dixon was an All Australian CHF in 2020. 2nd in the league in Goals and #1 in Contested Marks. Top 10 in his clubs B&F. 8 Brownlow votes. Jenkins got 2 Brownlow votes.

3. Season in 2017 was significantly longer than in 2020. Games were also 20% longer in 2017 than 2020. S

Context is king.

And to back up the point further about why its an absurd comparison. In 2017 - 25 players kicked 35 goals or more in the AFL. In 2020 - 1 player kicked over 35 goals.

1. Dixon was the target for all of the forward entries, from a dominant midfield. Jenkins had to make do what was left, knowing that his teammates would go to Walker and Betts first.

Seeing that Jenkins did what he did as the third wheel is much more impressive that being the first choice for every entry.

2. Dixon did better in a lot of subjective stats. Jenkins did better in all of the objective stats.

3. I was only referring to averages. Happy to also choose any other Dixon year to compare to Jenkins 2017, if you feel he did better elsewhere.

Dixon LOOKS like a better footballer. Jenkins WAS a better footballer, and far more effective with what he was offered.

People hate to say it because it's so easy and so much fun to shit on Jenkins, but it was always true.

 

[Mego Red]

Tex did take the best defender mostly in 2017 though whereas Dixon is the 'spearhead'.

A now-retired defender once told me playing on Jenkins in a particular game in late Sept 2017 "was like playing footy against my nanna"

How many did Jenkins kick on him? Must have been embarassing.

 

[1970crow]

They really are different kind of players. Hard to compare.

Jenkins far more mobile, and worked harder. Those "Joe the Goose " goals weren't from him sitting in the goal square. Most were from him reading the play and beating his opponent with leg speed.

Dixon is an old school clunker. If not mark the ball create spillage.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Jenkins ran his opponent up the ground and then outdid them on the way back. If you went small against him then you ran the risk of a deep sky ball mismatch. If you went tall, you’d get run off your feet against our slingshots from defence. Jenkins got very little of his goals leading at the kicker. He was great feeding off a dominant midfield or fast breaks from mid field, but when it came to earning dirty ball, he was an abject failure. Not only couldn’t he win it, he barely broke even and if he did, he provided zero ground ball pressure against his direct opponent. He wasn’t the only one and it’s why our mids struggled to win the ball back between the arcs. It was all or nothing and then hope our back 50 can turn it over and re-slingshot. Great against shit teams, shit against teams that bring pressure across the full deck.

Dixon is old fashioned, and rate him or not, leads up to give a kicker a target and runners to to run to. Who’s better is irrelevant, they’re both products and cogs within and of the system. If you are one of those that believe that there’s a game of chess going on outside of the fundamental constants of winning possession, making good decisions and executing delivery skills, then arguing who was/is better is rank stupidity.

If it was me, I’d go Dixon as a key forward because he competes and is consistent at it and does kick goals. JJ gets points for giving a breather to our otherwise 95% TOG first ruck, including centre bounces. But unless JJ gets a height mismatch or he’s playing ahead of a free wheeling slingshot, then he really provided not that much at all. % boosters are great for ladder positioning, but feasting on carcasses only gets you so far in high pressure contests.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Just compared Charlie Dixon to Josh Jenkins 2016-2021 for goals per game

vs top 4
Dixon 1.08
Jenkins 1.79

vs top 8
Dixon 1.47
Jenkins 2.16

vs bottom 10
Dixon 2.45
Jenkins 2.55

But he yells at the umpire and has a beard

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I always thought they’d make a good combination, Dixon playing closer to goal creating a contest and bringing the ball to ground and Jenkins as the more mobile CHF pushing up and down the ground.

surround them with some danger small and medium forwards and they’d be a real handful.

Maybe next year at the Cattery

 

[Sanders]

I think Dixon vs Jenkins is a good debate, and has always been.

Just as relevant a debate as Eddie Betts vs Max Gawn

 

[adelaidecrows]

Port have some decent kids so it's not the end of the world for them to go in that direction. Still, like Geelong, they're firmly stuck as a club who are destined to be close but never close enough.

Still, Hinkley is probably a case of keep Port in finals and he'll keep his job, and that's more than doable coming into 2022.

This is his 10th year in charge and the only reason he has stayed this long is David Koch ego refusing to admit his appointment failed. Never in the history of the game has a coach been allowed to get away with such average figures for so long. 121 wins and 82 losses. Most of the 39 game gap was established just over the last two years. so prior to that he had a 90 - 74 win loss record. He has only lead port to 10 finals games with a 50% result. I have no doubt its all been on the back of 2014 which Kochie hung his hat on.

If I was a gambling man, I think Hinkley will walk away at the end of the year even if they win the premiership. The reason is the generational change that will have to occur as of the next 12 months which will leave them with holes everywhere and they don't have the list balance due to their trade obsession to get out of it quickly.

 

[AFC979810]

1. Dixon was the target for all of the forward entries, from a dominant midfield. Jenkins had to make do what was left, knowing that his teammates would go to Walker and Betts first.

Seeing that Jenkins did what he did as the third wheel is much more impressive that being the first choice for every entry.

2. Dixon did better in a lot of subjective stats. Jenkins did better in all of the objective stats.

3. I was only referring to averages. Happy to also choose any other Dixon year to compare to Jenkins 2017, if you feel he did better elsewhere.

Dixon LOOKS like a better footballer. Jenkins WAS a better footballer, and far more effective with what he was offered.

People hate to say it because it's so easy and so much fun to sh*t on Jenkins, but it was always true.

1. So you are saying being the teams 3rd choice forward on the other teams 3rd best defender is harder than being the #1 forward with the #1 defender. You keep bringing up Ports Dominant midfield as to why Dixon is over-rated. Its a nothing stat. For reference in 2017 Adelaide had 59.7 Inside 50's a game from a dominant midfield. In 2020 Port averaged 46.3.

2. Rubbish. Port Adelaide judged Dixon to be a top 10 player at his club. Jenkins club did not. Umpires awarded Dixon 8 Brownlow votes. Umps awarded Jenkins 2. External Judges ranked Dixon as one of the best 22 players in the entire AFL for that season. External judges didn't have Jenkins in the Top 40 All Australian squad. So I think its' just you who thinks Jenkins was a better player than Dixon. I liked Jenkins just fine btw - nothing against him..

3. You are blind. And that's fine. It is a Crows forum after all, so you are allowed to be grossly biased.