Preview Round 11: Port Adelaide vs Essendon, Adelaide Oval, Sunday 29/05/2022 @ 4:40 PM

[ant555]

You are seriously overrating him

And you are seriously under rating how much pressure our whole defense is under due to piss poor forward and midfield pressure. To be having a crack ay anyone is the defensive half is not right. We expose them to so much pressure it is not funny.

 

[Halftimehero]

And you are seriously under rating how much pressure our whole defense is under due to piss poor forward and midfield pressure. To be having a crack ay anyone is the defensive half is not right. We expose them to so much pressure it is not funny.

I agree, but you can’t then turn around and say he is playing well, you can say he’s a victim of our poor team defence therefore we aren’t getting value out of him.

I do feel like he performed better at the crows than he is now though, they’ve also been rubbish the last couple of years.

His one one one work has clearly dropped, he was one of the premier players in the competition at this, this shouldn’t have a lot to do with team defence, it’s just about beating your man.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

This dumb debate started because of this:



As good or as bad as you think Kelly has been, he's not getting dropped.

He's also nowhere near top 5 BnF Ethan. Wow.

How dare you call my debate dumb!!!








Even if it was...

 

[Vindicater]

His one one one work has clearly dropped, he was one of the premier players in the competition at this, this shouldn’t have a lot to do with team defence, it’s just about beating your man.

One on one work becones harder though when your direct opponent can run in any direction away from you becauer the pressure down field ia not forcing the kicks in certain directions.

I am not defending Kelly who I do agree has been worse than last year but even guys like Grimes would struggle one on one with our midfield pressure.

 

[owen87]

He came to us from a team that finished 15th and 18th the last two seasons, its a weak excuse to use Essendon’s failings this year as to why he’s underperforming.

Adelaide's midfield pressure wasn't nearly as bad as ours has been this season.

So no, it's not a 'weak' excuse.

 

[Halftimehero]

Adelaide's midfield pressure wasn't nearly as bad as ours has been this season.

So no, it's not a 'weak' excuse.

You reckon?

They were 16th and 18th for points against the last two seasons, they were putrid.

 

[owen87]

You reckon?

They were 16th and 18th for points against the last two seasons, they were putrid.

There's no stat available that analyses the quality of opposition i50s but we give our opponents all the time and space in the world to deliver to their forwards.

A hybrid of Fletcher-Scarlett-Rance couldn't defend the entries we're conceding.

 

[Halftimehero]

There's no stat available that analyses the quality of opposition i50s but we give our opponents all the time and space in the world to deliver to their forwards.

A hybrid of Fletcher-Scarlett-Rance couldn't defend the entries we're conceding.

I am not disagreeing with any of that, I am disagreeing with Kelly being top 5 in our B&F(WTF) and I just think it’s a poor excuse to use our failings as a team to justify his considerable drop in output from previous seasons when he came from a team performing just as bad.

 

[owen87]

I just think it’s a poor excuse to use our failings as a team to justify his considerable drop in output from previous seasons

You're welcome to think that.

Just as everyone else is welcome to disagree with you.

 

[Halftimehero]

You're welcome to think that.

Just as everyone else is welcome to disagree with you.

So are all our defenders off the hook because of our lack of pressure in the midfield? I don’t really hear the same excuses being made for our captain?

 

[owen87]

So are all our defenders off the hook because of our lack of pressure in the midfield? I don’t really hear the same excuses being made for our captain?

Almost all of them, yes.

Heppell isn't even getting to the contests to have bulk 1on1's.

 

[Halftimehero]

Almost all of them, yes.

Heppell isn't even getting to the contests to have bulk 1on1's.

Just from last weeks match

Heppell 8 CP’s Kelly 3
Heppell 6 tackles Kelly 2
Heppell 7 intercepts Kelly 6

I’d suggest he got to and influenced a few more than Kelly on the weekend.

 

[owen87]

Just from last weeks match

Heppell 8 CP’s Kelly 3
Heppell 6 tackles Kelly 2
Heppell 7 intercepts Kelly 6

I’d suggest he got to and influenced a few more than Kelly on the weekend.

Looks like the stats of someone playing more on a flank than a genuine 1on1 defender to me.

Funny that.

 

[Halftimehero]

Looks like the stats of someone playing more on a flank than a genuine 1on1 defender to me.

Funny that.

Correct, so why are you then judging him on his ability to get to 1on1s? This isn’t sticking up for Heppell either, I am just interested why Kelly and “the bulk of them” get a reprieve and Heppell doesn’t?

 

[owen87]

Correct, so why are you then judging him on his ability to get to 1on1s? This isn’t sticking up for Heppell either, I am just interested why Kelly and “the bulk of them” get a reprieve and Heppell doesn’t?

Because the expectations are different; different players, different roles.

Heppell is a limited defender because he simply can't get to 1on1 contests. He also isn't particularly dangerous offensively.

Kelly & Laverde are fielding the bulk of the 1on1 contests against the oppositions most dangerous forwards, which by and large are coming in from a midfield providing insufficient pressure. They're being supported by a bloke who's played less than 10 games in Zac Reid in that endeavour.

Heppell gets to play a looser role as a defensive general, in that role he's not being overly damaging, overly defensive, and offers no scope for development.

Teams aren't sitting down each week wondering 'what do we do about Heppell?' which is really what someone getting to play as a loose HBF should be making the opposition think about.

 

[Bombers1234]

A Laverde vs Kelly stats comparison would be interesting. To me it seems as though Jayden has at least halved far more contests than Jake this season.

 

[owen87]

A Laverde vs Kelly stats comparison would be interesting. To me it seems as though Jayden has at least halved far more contests than Jake this season.

Laverde's got a better 1on1 win rate than Kelly, Kelly has more Pressure Acts than Laverde. Mostly an indication of Laverde tending to play tall and Kelly playing on a Medium-Small.

 

[Halftimehero]

Because the expectations are different; different players, different roles.

Heppell is a limited defender because he simply can't get to 1on1 contests. He also isn't particularly dangerous offensively.

Kelly & Laverde are fielding the bulk of the 1on1 contests against the oppositions most dangerous forwards, which by and large are coming in from a midfield providing insufficient pressure. They're being supported by a bloke who's played less than 10 games in Zac Reid in that endeavour.

Heppell gets to play a looser role as a defensive general, in that role he's not being overly damaging, overly defensive, and offers no scope for development.

Teams aren't sitting down each week wondering 'what do we do about Heppell?' which is really what someone getting to play as a loose HBF should be making the opposition think about.

Wouldn’t Heppell still be trying to perform his role under the same pressure as the Kelly and “the bulk of them” though?

 

[owen87]

Wouldn’t Heppell still be trying to perform his role under the same pressure as the Kelly and “the bulk of them” though?

If he was trying to defend bulk 1on1 contests? Sure.

 

[Halftimehero]

If he was trying to defend bulk 1on1 contests? Sure.

Ok, so you pick and choose when to apply your excuse of poor team defence, gotcha

 

[Bjchan13]

feels like same old story - we've flown too close to the sun and got our wings burnt, again.

we again breached the finals barrier with a free flowing attack game then assumed all we needed to do was add defence and bingo, we have a gameplan that stands up to finals footy ball, ergo a flag

next minute we've added defence, which didnt actually add any defence at all but in doing so also lost our attack

so here we are, no defence, no attack.

the wheel turned slightly this week with a renewed sense of urgency at the contest but once we had the ball it was a group of browns cows just roaming aimlessly, worse still when they got it in transition all they had to do was go cow tipping on the way through - against a rigidly structured side like richmond it was bound to get messy.

So where to this week? aim for a nil all draw? or 20 goals a piece?

thats about what its come to. Game plan in the toilet

Nil all draw. Should've taught the players team defence first and attack 2nd. We've done it the wrong way around.

 

[owen87]

Ok, so you pick and choose when to apply your excuse of poor team defence, gotcha

Different players, different roles, different expectations.

Someone playing a looser HBF role that's neither providing good defence or good offence isn't a particularly good asset, nor is he spending his time helping out our under siege defenders.

Seems to me you just want to keep shifting the bar until everyone thinks Kelly is as poor as you think Kelly is.

 

[Halftimehero]

Different players, different roles, different expectations.

Someone playing a looser HBF role that's neither providing good defence or good offence isn't a particularly good asset, nor is he spending his time helping out our under siege defenders.

Seems to me you just want to keep shifting the bar until everyone thinks Kelly is as poor as you think Kelly is.

I am not shifting anything, you’re the one excusing some players and not others, you’re picking and choosing to fit your argument.

At the end of the day, you aren’t even disagreeing he’s been poor and quite underwhelming, all you’ve done is try to offer excuses why this is the case.

 

[owen87]

you’re the one excusing some players and not others

Correct. I also take issue with Parish but not Hobbs, despite Parish's disposal count being excellent. Different players. Different roles.

you’re picking and choosing to fit your argument

Because different players, with different roles, have different expectations? Yes. Yes I am.

you aren’t even disagreeing he’s been poor and quite underwhelming

I am indeed disagreeing.

all you’ve done is try to offer excuses why this is the case

Incorrect. I'm offering reasons why you can't simply claim because his stats don't match previous years that he's poor, and why you'd be hard pressed to say any of our actual defensive defenders are poor.

You've claimed Kelly was poor. Multiple people have disagreed with you. Moving goalposts doesn't suddenly make them agree with you.

 

[Mikevk123]

B Kelly BZT Laverde
HB Ridley Reid Hind
C McGrath Caldwell Martin
HF Perkins Baldwin Hobbs
F Wanganeen Wright Waterman
FOLL: Draper Merrett Parish
INTER: Heppell, Shiel, Bryan, Durham
Sub: Cutler