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Bluemour 'Silly Season' Edition XXXIV

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Continuing on Stocker, the writing was on the wall for several months. Cripps gave him a massive spray during the Collingwood game pretty much for being a FIGJAM and not a team player, which is still so surprising to me. He was told by the club for several years to work on his endurance and aerobic capacity yet either didn't take it seriously or just didn't do enough. Despite his heroics and physicality, he was a liability for the VFL/AFL with his inability to run out games. That's sort of the gist of it but we'll never really know exactly why unless it comes straight from Stock's mouth.
Good to get the info.

I think it is tough for people to say that didn't do enough to work on his tank as he did a heap of work in the preseason that delivered results and then did his ankle requiring surgery and missed 16 weeks. Maybe he suffered from being compared to Walsh who missed 8 weeks with a similar type of injury. Difference is Walsh has a naturally big tank carries 6 kgs less around the park and no 2 injuries are the same.
 
Was chatting to my mate and he passed on a bit of info to me.

We're interested in potentially drafting a number of VFL boys - Leui and Cahill in particular.

Expect a trade request to come from Acres any day now, his guess is between Wednesday and Friday.

Voss is unhappy about the long terms deals on Martin/Williams/Gov, and has been very vocal on not offering long term contracts moving forward for any players traded into the club. If they're coming to Carlton for the contract then we've picked the wrong player, they need to want to play for the club. We're trying to build a culture of players taking unders both salary and contract length wise.

Bit of talk coming out now that Williams is apparently on the trade table, which I personally don't see happening but it does fit in with what I just mentioned.

Following on from above with the culture surrounding contracts, this is part of the reason why Stocker was moved on. My understanding is he was offered a 1 year deal on pretty much draftee salary ($150k). Been talked about on here a bit already by others, but Stocker's management were not happy, they were looking for 2-3 years on higher wage. There were other teams snooping around and offering better contracts than us even before he was delisted, so 100% he ends up at a different club next year.

Continuing on Stocker, the writing was on the wall for several months. Cripps gave him a massive spray during the Collingwood game pretty much for being a FIGJAM and not a team player, which is still so surprising to me. He was told by the club for several years to work on his endurance and aerobic capacity yet either didn't take it seriously or just didn't do enough. Despite his heroics and physicality, he was a liability for the VFL/AFL with his inability to run out games. That's sort of the gist of it but we'll never really know exactly why unless it comes straight from Stock's mouth.

It's sad that Stocker couldn't bounce back and have a career best year similar to LOB/Cottrell. The feedback the coaching group received from them two was that communication and guidance on specific roles was much more clear than under Teague. Hoping in 2023 we can see the same for Honey and Dow.

I'll just edit in this last bit I forgot, I've got Philp as my breakout star of 2023. Voss raved about him and apparently he was very close for to the rd 1 side for 2022. Just hoping he stays fit. Makes sense with his foot speed, you can see we lack that and the difference it makes when Fisher is around the ball.

Don't shoot the messenger just passing on what info I get told - Go Blues :blueheart:

Something that I'll add to this that I wasn't going to include in my original post on the topic.

Stocker was told point blank in a meeting that he needed to improve his fitness dramatically, that there was a program that would be designed for him over the summer and he told the coaches that in his opinion he was pleased with his own level of fitness and he didn't view it as an issue. This was the proverbial straw.

Gethelred this is why coaches have a say in list management. Coachability is huge and often the difference between success and failure.

Stocker demanded 3 years, unsure of the money but has been offered 400k elsewhere so probably around that mark (looks like we're getting Acres for less).
 
How can coaches NOT be involved in player selection and player type - naive to have any other POV.

No doubt that there is a required team approach to all matters regarding which players are a good fit to not. The Club is going through a cultural change - respect earned begins internally.
 
Draftee salary for Stocker, that’s just silly. One year sure, put him on the rookie list to prove himself and work exceptionally hard but he’s not a draftee.
Apparently match payments are going up to $10k.
A $150k base for a guy who played 6 games in his 4th year isn't unreasonable.
 

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Good to get the info.

I think it is tough for people to say that didn't do enough to work on his tank as he did a heap of work in the preseason that delivered results and then did his ankle requiring surgery and missed 16 weeks. Maybe he suffered from being compared to Walsh who missed 8 weeks with a similar type of injury. Difference is Walsh has a naturally big tank carries 6 kgs less around the park and no 2 injuries are the same.

coaches dont just watch the games and think 'geez he has no tank, even after an injury layoff'

they haves seen him for 4 years, day in and day out and know these players inside and out
 
So if we knew other "clubs" (plural) were interested in Stocker, why the hell did we delist instead of trade? Makes absolutely zero sense to me
Indeed. The whole narratives sound weird. But if you allow a player you invested time in to be out of contract so not real power to negotiate and end up at other clubs without trading you cannot help but ask questions WTF is going on. Even if it is goodwill to let go before trade time so can move to another club as delisted free agent. It has happened before but it always looks weird when clubs do it.
 
Indeed. The whole narratives sound weird. But if you allow a player you invested time in to be out of contract so not real power to negotiate and end up at other clubs without trading you cannot help but ask questions WTF is going on. Even if it is goodwill to let go before trade time so can move to another club as delisted free agent. It has happened before but it always looks weird when clubs do it.


In fairness though I doubt Austin de-lists him and then goes 'Oh wait - maybe I should have traded him'. This list managers talk all the time and indeed are often good friends.

I suspect he knew, for certain, we would only get a really low steak-knives type draft pick for him (e.g 60+) which we have no plans to use anyway so did the the right thing by the kid and made him a DFA.
 
Was chatting to my mate and he passed on a bit of info to me.

We're interested in potentially drafting a number of VFL boys - Leui and Cahill in particular.

Expect a trade request to come from Acres any day now, his guess is between Wednesday and Friday.

Voss is unhappy about the long terms deals on Martin/Williams/Gov, and has been very vocal on not offering long term contracts moving forward for any players traded into the club. If they're coming to Carlton for the contract then we've picked the wrong player, they need to want to play for the club. We're trying to build a culture of players taking unders both salary and contract length wise.

Bit of talk coming out now that Williams is apparently on the trade table, which I personally don't see happening but it does fit in with what I just mentioned.

Following on from above with the culture surrounding contracts, this is part of the reason why Stocker was moved on. My understanding is he was offered a 1 year deal on pretty much draftee salary ($150k). Been talked about on here a bit already by others, but Stocker's management were not happy, they were looking for 2-3 years on higher wage. There were other teams snooping around and offering better contracts than us even before he was delisted, so 100% he ends up at a different club next year.

Continuing on Stocker, the writing was on the wall for several months. Cripps gave him a massive spray during the Collingwood game pretty much for being a FIGJAM and not a team player, which is still so surprising to me. He was told by the club for several years to work on his endurance and aerobic capacity yet either didn't take it seriously or just didn't do enough. Despite his heroics and physicality, he was a liability for the VFL/AFL with his inability to run out games. That's sort of the gist of it but we'll never really know exactly why unless it comes straight from Stock's mouth.

It's sad that Stocker couldn't bounce back and have a career best year similar to LOB/Cottrell. The feedback the coaching group received from them two was that communication and guidance on specific roles was much more clear than under Teague. Hoping in 2023 we can see the same for Honey and Dow.

I'll just edit in this last bit I forgot, I've got Philp as my breakout star of 2023. Voss raved about him and apparently he was very close for to the rd 1 side for 2022. Just hoping he stays fit. Makes sense with his foot speed, you can see we lack that and the difference it makes when Fisher is around the ball.

Don't shoot the messenger just passing on what info I get told - Go Blues :blueheart:
Like that we are looking at some of the VFL boys. Love to add Ramshaw to that list. Small body of evidence but looks like a class footballer. May be mid season draft after more of a look.
 
How can coaches NOT be involved in player selection and player type - naive to have any other POV.

Imagine being a coach and not getting a say in which players you get, how long they will be playing for you and how much they are paid in comparison to their teammates?
 
In fairness though I doubt Austin de-lists him and then goes 'Oh wait - maybe I should have traded him'. This list managers talk all the time and indeed are often good friends.

I suspect he knew, for certain, we would only get a really low steak-knives type draft pick for him (e.g 60+) which we have no plans to use anyway so did the the right thing by the kid and made him a DFA.
Yes, hence why I used term goodwill.
But even then my mind still asks questions of how do you allow the situation to get like this in first place in terms of overall contract situations in terms of overall management that you leave no negotiating power at all. It is less than ideal. You should value what you invested as a club so even if you players leave you have a way to still get some resource back in when they leave. This just annoys me in terms of list management to see happen but unless you privy to everything you cannot really know all the details of the how's and why's. Very frustrated supporter watching on.
 

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Something that I'll add to this that I wasn't going to include in my original post on the topic.

Stocker was told point blank in a meeting that he needed to improve his fitness dramatically, that there was a program that would be designed for him over the summer and he told the coaches that in his opinion he was pleased with his own level of fitness and he didn't view it as an issue. This was the proverbial straw.

Gethelred this is why coaches have a say in list management. Coachability is huge and often the difference between success and failure.

Stocker demanded 3 years, unsure of the money but has been offered 400k elsewhere so probably around that mark (looks like we're getting Acres for less).
Thanks Wick and Ash for your insights. Appreciate them.
 
Pretty big list management error from Austin overpaying a FA and then trying to off load after 2 years. There will be no takers unless we pay half the salary
Tricky one. We were screaming out for a big recruit and Williams had shown he could be a star. The talk had already started with Williams before Austin had started and if Austin had come in and not landed Williams he would've been under huge immediate pressure.
 

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Pretty big list management error from Austin overpaying a FA and then trying to off load after 2 years. There will be no takers unless we pay half the salary

its already been a pretty decent error in reality - bought him in as a midfielder and lasted less than half a season before being moved the a HBF if memory serve me correct.

he is decent at half back but when he went down with injury it was the type of player we could cover as we have an abundance of hbfs. When fit, he is good and could allow doc to move to a midfield role like he did late in the year
 
Tricky one. We were screaming out for a big recruit and Williams had shown he could be a star. The talk had already started with Williams before Austin had started and if Austin had come in and not landed Williams he would've been under huge immediate pressure.
Yeah, you've go to wonder if there was pressure from above to get the deal done.
 
its already been a pretty decent error in reality - bought him in as a midfielder and lasted less than half a season before being moved the a HBF if memory serve me correct.
He was HBF already before he moved to Carlton. The move to try to turn him into a midfielder was just plain weird thinking from start imho.
To pay him like he was already one, will just never make sense to me in terms of overall list management strategy at the time.
 
Like that we are looking at some of the VFL boys. Love to add Ramshaw to that list. Small body of evidence but looks like a class footballer. May be mid season draft after more of a look.
Only saw him play one game - that was enough for me - looks a player. Good athletic build, calm under pressure, decent skills and can run. Lieu is a no brainer potential also I would have said.
 
In fairness though I doubt Austin de-lists him and then goes 'Oh wait - maybe I should have traded him'. This list managers talk all the time and indeed are often good friends.

I suspect he knew, for certain, we would only get a really low steak-knives type draft pick for him (e.g 60+) which we have no plans to use anyway so did the the right thing by the kid and made him a DFA.
similar to how we got Jack Newnes as a DFA
 
Tricky one. We were screaming out for a big recruit and Williams had shown he could be a star. The talk had already started with Williams before Austin had started and if Austin had come in and not landed Williams he would've been under huge immediate pressure.
I don't believe that is correct, he was a very good half back flanker, not a high quality mid-fielder and was never worth the big $ we had agreed to.
We have a abundance of half back flankers and it would not surprise if we cut our losses and absorb some of the cost.
 
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