List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part III

[SaintsSeptember]

Exactly what we did in 2012-14

We just cactus our draft selections

Its easy to preach about what "formula" a club should use , but circumstances are different all the time.

2001: Fremantle handed the Hawks a premiership by giving up Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin for picks 1 , 20 and 36. ( Trent came back later for peanuts ). Anyone who gave up any draft picks for anything in 2001 was dumb.
2003: Terrible draft , trading in players like Gram or Nathan Brown to Richmond was a good move.

So more recently with the Saints.
2011: GWS had 11 first round picks, Odds were against the Saints with later picks, but they did very well to come away with Ross, Webster, Newnes.
2012: GWS had 5 first round picks. Shallow draft was meagre after the top 9. We didn't lose anything by trading for Hickey, and Melbourne were clever to trade into the Mini-Draft for Hogan. However for the same reason it was also a really bad time for Free agents to leave, the draft picks they brought in were worthless.
2013: Good very deep draft. Would have been a good year to use multiple picks. ( Hawks got Sicily and Ceglar late ). Our draft and trade choices let us down. ( Dunstan , Billings, Acres, Longer ).
2014: Good draft for round 1 and a bit more. Not so great for talls. We should have gone for best available. Miller , Maynard overlooked by us twice.
2015: I think Saints read it OK. There are only two other players i'd rate that went between our original pick ( Francis ) and Gresham. McKay and Curnow.
Carlton read it well. Geez, what if we drafted Petracca and Miller the year before , then picked up McKay the year later.

 

[MordySaint]

How beating three finalists and bring the last team to beat the premier done with no pressure. More silly revisionism.

Really instead of being a smartarse try keeping up with conversation, it was in response to the pre bye results and the flagrant mistruths being told to justify a bs narrative.

The club built the whole 2022 season based around the finish to the season on 2021 which was when we were completely out of contention.

The AFL then gave us a soft start to 2022, which we took advantage of.

There was little pretty about most games we played early in this year, no real solid 4 quarter performances.

Revisionism... yeah... I remember every game even the amazing revered Geelong win which you keep on referring to.

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We literally came good for 15 minutes of that game in the 3rd quarter (or Geelong feel asleep) depends on how you look at it. Then we held on for dear life in the final quarter for a "win for the ages" for the St Kilda football club

I take nothing or very little away from our early season form.

What I take away is players like Owens, NAS, King, Windy. They are our future.

 

[pebblesofsand]

So you obviously aren't counting Hannebery, Ryder, Kent, Frawley, McKernan ... Or any of the top-ups which has put us in the position which we are in now.

No I'm not. Why?

Because Hannebery cost us Pick 36 eq, Ryder was essentially a steak knives, Kent was Pick 55, Frawley and McKernan were free agents.

So the question that needs to be asked is what AA star did we miss out drafting because of those trades?

I've not looked but I'm confident it will be - no one.

 

[MordySaint]

No I'm not. Why?

Because Hannebery cost us Pick 36 eq, Ryder was essentially a steak knives, Kent was Pick 55, Frawley and McKernan were free agents.

So the question that needs to be asked is what AA star did we miss out drafting because of those trades?

I've not looked but I'm confident it will be - no one.

• These players cost us millions of dollars.
• Stopped younger players from getting a start in games.
• Gave little leadership in return (Ryder excepted)
• Limited our opportunities of other more longer term recruits
• Took up a huge amount of resources of our rehab staff
• Stopped younger players from getting the resources they needed to improve

As for McKernan who can forget his kick for goal when he was brought in to sure up our goal kicking stocks after we had kicked 9.20 the week before. Players like this do more to debilitate our credentials than improve them.

 

[70s sainter]

Isaac Smith came in and assimilated into the Geelong culture, we however try to take on their winning culture. I think also Geelong have only recruited 15 premiership players from other clubs while we are at 47.

More esteemed football brains than us are saying a similar thing .

You must build from within.

I agree that teams including us pay too much for players because theyre from a premiership team and ours get sold cheap because theyre not. It hasnt worked for us yet. Even shneider choked for his first at goal in the GF and the pressure added from there.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Maybe we should change our motto to “mediocritatem per irrelevance”.

 

[Mowman]

Hard to argue

 

[wolfpac13]

I'm starting to think we tried but nobody genuinely wants to come to the Saints. One of the most active trade weeks in years and we got Cordy.. Goodness.

Teams higher on the ladder trade in good players. I don't understand how we get better next year.

 

[ScrappyDo]

The draft is a great option if you’re investing in it.
We essentially have 1 selection inside the top 30 this year after F/S and academy bids.

The draft order is increasingly volatile with each year and with an average hand combined with SFA player movement l think Gags' hands were rather tied.
Did you see what the Cats threw at that 2nd round pick trade? How do you compete with that?

 

[StCicatriz]

Just curious what top five pick did we burn?

You dont remember the top 5 pick we traded? That could have got us serong?

 

[lewdogs]

You dont remember the top 5 pick we traded? That could have got us serong?

No I don't

 

[MordySaint]

I think our recruitment team needs to take some responsibility for our lack of bargaining chips. To put all your chips on DeGoey, then stall on everything else inbetween is strange... talk about a lack of multi-tasking or zero scenario planning.

I'm really happy that Clark didn't go, but I hope there is no damage from the fact he was seemingly put up for trade.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Mature aged ruck is a ways down my list of priorities tbh

 

[Mowman]

You dont remember the top 5 pick we traded? That could have got us serong?

Young would have been ok too

 

[billings2paddy]

Maybe we should change our motto to “mediocritatem per irrelevance”.

That's gold!!

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Interesting bit of a pick up by that Geelong have 30 country players on the books.
Some areas I think we could look at to improve our recruiting, ideas I’ve come up with and also stolen from here or listening to trade radio and what other clubs do:

• Drastically improve the player welfare department
• Find a way to sell our product to country boys. Geelong have 30 of them but from my own experience most country boys are busting to get to the big smoke
• Sell the lifestyle
• Heavily target talented kids and families living in our area
• Very heavily target and interact with Saints supporting families of talented kids
• Forget Cairns, find a game in Alice or Darwin. There is a huge base of Saints supporters in the Territory

 

[billings2paddy]

Young would have been ok too

Our midfield would look much better with serong and an extra 900k a year in the bank

 

[Premium]

They must be hard up for news , saying we need another ruck , Jack Hayes is coming back from a ACL -- well media what is Campbell - was outstanding all last year and far better option as a #1 ruck compared to Weed etc.

 

[billings2paddy]

Mature aged ruck is a ways down my list of priorities tbh

He has a point though and some of those players wouldn't have cost much but the upside is huge.

 

[BrutThough]

No I don't

The pick he is talking about was pick 6, which we used to turn into the currency for Howard, Ryder and the base of the Hill deal.

Our original pick was used to select Fischer McAsey and we never held the pick used to select Serong. The picks we did received from GWS and then from Port were all after where Serong was selected.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

He has a point though and some of those players wouldn't have cost much but the upside is huge.

We could've picked up Darren Jarman, wouldn't have cost much but the backside is huge.

 

[bergholt]

The trouble is they never verified their choices.

OK, we drafted a tall forward and a defender, now lets build the midfield.
In reality there are all sorts of things that go wrong with draft picks that stop them becoming the player you need.

You need to double up, or triple up. If you need a midfielder you don't draft a midfielder. You draft 3.
If you need a tall defender you have more than one developing.
On the off chance ( washing out is more likely than overachieving ) you end up with two many of a type, you get to do something in trade week.

This is why the simplest strategy, least likely to get f*ked up, is just to keep drafting mids until you clearly have an A grade midfield, then find talls on the market to fill the gaps. Grab some late pick talls on the way through, mature age, rookies, whatever. But basically keep spending each draft 2-3 good picks on mids.

You can try to be smrt about it and do something else but as we've seen it's very error prone.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

• These players cost us millions of dollars.
• Stopped younger players from getting a start in games.
• Gave little leadership in return (Ryder excepted)
• Limited our opportunities of other more longer term recruits
• Took up a huge amount of resources of our rehab staff
• Stopped younger players from getting the resources they needed to improve

As for McKernan who can forget his kick for goal when he was brought in to sure up our goal kicking stocks after we had kicked 9.20 the week before. Players like this do more to debilitate our credentials than improve them.

Every year we have to spend the minimum player salary.
The minimum player salary is $600 000 less than the maximum.