NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Le Grille]

"Recommendations as to whether any persons who engaged in, were involved in and/or were aware of any inappropriate conduct should, in the view of the investigation panel, be subject to disciplinary action which would be undertaken pursuant to a separate process under AFL Rules“

From AFL.com.au—emphasis mine. If I were a cynic I might suggest that we have found their escape clause cloaked in disciplinary language.

If the panel is independent—and if that is an important mechanism for natural justice—I would have thought those deciding any possible punishments ought to be independent. I really don’t know.

This isn’t going to be thorough and flawless is it?

 

[blackshadow]

Why don't you just believe what the Indigenous players and partners and the assistant coach are saying .

Maybe because there are serious question marks over the way one person recalls an incident to how another does?

I really thought someone named Aristotle would grasp that basic concept.

 

[blackshadow]

So the AFL Terms of Reference have been decided.

Am I reading it correctly that the ToR don’t allow for any questioning just the opportunity to “share their perspectives”and mediation?

 

[Makeshift Park]

Why don't you just believe what the Indigenous players and partners and the assistant coach are saying .

Great question.

As a matter of fact, I do believe them.

I just don't think its possible for us to have an adequate understanding of what happened by only hearing one side of story.

And I'm troubled by how so many have rushed out to crucify the coaching staff and destroy their careers before we've even heard their accounts, let alone had a proper process to investigate what happened.

 

[Taylor]

If I were a cynic I might suggest that we have found their escape clause cloaked in disciplinary language.

I think people will have the lowest possible attention paid to the AFL right at the end of December, days before Christmas.

That's what set off the cynic flag to me

 

[JyeDye]

At least it will be publicly released.

 

[The 747]

Not sure if it has been raised in this giant thread but Burt (sp?) no longer works in the AFL industry right? There is your escaped goat.

 

[mcnulty]

"While we still do not know the identities of the persons / families who have recalled their accounts within the Hawthorn Football Club review, or with the journalist who published those accounts, we encourage their legal representatives to engage in the process as soon as possible”

So no certainty yet that the families will even participate.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not sure if it has been raised in this giant thread but Burt (sp?) no longer works in the AFL industry right? There is your escaped goat.

He was at Caulfield grammar.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I really thought someone named Aristotle would grasp that basic concept.

Maybe a longshot - but I don't think his real name is Aristotle.

 

[sr36]

Maybe because there are serious question marks over the way one person recalls an incident to how another does?

Particularly regarding cross cultural communication. Problem for the coaches is that even if they weren't as coercive as the stories imply, they've still probably overreached massively and been culturally ignorant. Neither of which support their claims of no wrongdoing.

 

[Slartibartfast]

"In April, Victoria’s truth-telling commission – Yoorrook – began public hearings to document the ongoing impacts of colonisation on First Nations Victorians."

This the perfect arena for this matter. If Rusty had a brane he'd have contacted them too, and that would have been his follow up story.

Historic deal struck to begin Victorian treaty negotiations with First Nations groups

Under the framework, traditional owners will enter into interim agreements during negotiations

www.theguardian.com

He is a journalist , not a social worker.
You hold him responsibLe for everything that now stems from this issue.

His job was to report it which he did an excellent job of.

 

[sr36]

Not sure if it has been raised in this giant thread but Burt (sp?) no longer works in the AFL industry right? There is your escaped goat.

The net is going to get larger, not smaller. We've just got three names of individuals who took direct action and whose names were known by the accusers.

"Recommendations as to whether any persons who engaged in, were involved in and/or were aware of any inappropriate conduct should, in the view of the investigation panel, be subject to disciplinary action..."

 

[blackshadow]

He is a journalist , not a social worker.
You hold him responsibLe for everything that now stems from this issue.

His job was to report it which he did an excellent job of.

Try telling Rusty that….

He’s immersed himself in the lives of those who made the allegations.

He’s crossed the line and become their advocate and cheerleader. He is not an objective journalist in this case.

 

[faible]

A few North supporters having a mare here.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Maybe because there are serious question marks over the way one person recalls an incident to how another does?

I really thought someone named Aristotle would grasp that basic concept.

Maybe, maybe not, the assistant coach says maybe not.

 

[Del191229]

Finally, something concrete to sink our teeth into.

AFL releases terms of reference for Hawks probe, reveals end date

The independent panel investigating historical allegations of racism at Hawthorn intends to complete its work this year

www.afl.com.au

 

[Slartibartfast]

Try telling Rusty that….

He’s immersed himself in the lives of those who made the allegations.

He’s crossed the line and become their advocate and cheerleader. He is not an objective journalist in this case.

What ?? So he cares about them. Maybe he ensured they did have ongoing help . That is great.

It still does not make it his responsibility but great to see he is not a heartless journalist that walks away without a care.

Where does it say he immersed himself into the situation. Showing care is not that.

 

[Del191229]

That is not facts, that is conjecture/speculation on your behalf.

No, they may later be proven to be facts. Right now they're allegations.

The entire justice system is built on this proposition and has been around for 800 years or so.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Interesting how the Australian and new Zealand "Yarn" seems to be now a tradition. ( dating all the way back to 2002).

A short history of Aussie journos’ favourite word

Australian Twitter is full of journalists from Bondi to Fitzroy telling everyone to read their latest "yarn". What's the story here?

www.crikey.com.au

yarning circle | School of Literature, Languages and Linguistics

yarning circle noun: a gathering of people who sit in a circle to share experience, knowledge, or ideas; a place where such a meeting is held. During the 1951 Australian election campaign, a federal minister rolled up to a town hall meeting to find a group of local farmers chatting before the event:

slll.cass.anu.edu.au

 

[Slartibartfast]

No, they may later be proven to be facts. Right now they're allegations.

The entire justice system is built on this proposition and has been around for 800 years or so.

But your ready to hang Jackson based alone on your assumptions???

 

[Del191229]

Disagree. If one article did all that you asked, you'd only ever need one article on a big story. And that one article would take up the whole newspaper. The follow up from the media in general is where you get the balance and nuance and other angles of the story and where the reader gets enough information to form a stronger or weaker opinion of reliability. The breaking article is rarely the whole story.

He's broken a big story, by detailing some allegations. Compellingly written. If his version is accurate to the perceptions of the individuals and those perceptions are true, it's fantastic journalism.

Who says it has to be one article?

Good journos like Nick McKenzie, Adele Ferguston and Kate McClymont spread their stuff over days, weeks and months.

McKenzie will usually do a big 60 Minutes on his yarns, along with the Age/SMH stuff.

Where's Rusty's 4 Corners?

Where's his follow ups?

Its one and done for a reason - he didn't do the work.

Or ... maybe he did and found stuff that didn't suit his narrative.

 

[Del191229]

There is nothing speculative in the post by SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay that you are responding to.

Claim 1) The report isn't fact either.

This is Phil Egan's first recommendation from the Cultural Safety Review.
In his words, the report found "alleged negligence and human rights abuses".

View attachment 1539874

Claim 2) Egan didn't put any of the allegations he heard to those accused.

These are Phil Egan's own words:

View attachment 1539870
Claim 3) To be fair, he wasn't asked to.

This is how Phil Egan described the project brief:

View attachment 1539873

Claim 4) The report is also composed of unverified anonymous allegations.

This is how Egan describes the project's methodology:

View attachment 1539877
To his credit he's undertaken a level of corroboration by requesting additional primary data. But the fact remains that from a legal standpoint, the allegations remain just that.

Thanks!

I wonder how many poasting on here have actually read Egan's report.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Who says it has to be one article?

Good journos like Mick McKenzie, Adelade Ferguston and Kate McClymont spread their stuff over days, weeks and months.

McKenzie will usually do a big 60 Minutes on his yarns, along with the Age/SMH stuff.

Where's Rusty's 4 Corners?

Where's his follow ups?

Its one and done for a reason - he didn't do the work.

Or ... maybe he did and found stuff that didn't suit his narrative.

Majority of story features usually are a one of.

Just because there is not a second story does not mean it is any less. He DID the work and you are yet to show ANY shortcomings with his article.
You are so blinkered with hate of Jackson you just cant see the reality.

 

[Del191229]

He is a journalist , not a social worker.
You hold him responsibLe for everything that now stems from this issue.

His job was to report it which he did an excellent job of.

Here's the Hansard of Nick McKenzie giving evidence to the Victorian Parliament's Inquiry into Extremism, which about as a result of his reporting.

You raised Nick as the gold standard (rightly) a few days ago, and said you think Rusty would have the same committment and attention to detail as Nick.

This is what it looks like. He fololws through the whole way, doesn't just post one unsubstantiated story then start having freakout on Twitter and defaming club presidents.

This whole mess should be somewhere formal now, like Yoo-Rook, and a truly top shelf journo like McKenzie would have made it happen.

Instead its in an AFL bodgehouse because Rusty isn't as good as he thinks he is.

https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/stories/committees/SCLSI/Inquiry_into_Extremism_In_Victoria/Transcripts/2022.06.14/2._FINAL-NIck_McKenzie.pdf