Rayner is not playing half back. He's playing the third tall role, in place of Gardiner, and being rather disciplined in the role.
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Training 2023 Pre-season thread
- Thread starter Dalions
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Aker got a Brownlow at half back
I haven't read Grasshopper17 and BrainOfMorbius match updates, but my thoughts on this afternoons hot garbage.
If that's even remotely close to our standard come round 1, Port will do a number on us. If we don't show more in our upcoming practice matches, we're not making top 4.
There's very little synergy amongst our midfield. It's all individual brilliance from Lachie, Ashcroft, or Bailey collecting a clean tap down from Oscar, finding space and sending the ball forward. Otherwise our second string midfield, particularly Matho or Dev, generally won more of the hard balls, but the lessor skills of the second string team around the ground undid the good work of their inside midfielders.
OK the Good.
The best players on the ground, over the course of the evening were Andrews, Ashcroft, Gunston, Dunkley and Starcevich.
As has been mentioned, Gunston is such a smart footballer, and Dunkley was very good up forward as well.
Ashcroft on the wing or inside is just class and smart.
The Promising.
Payne has to be our second tall defender. He's just as good as Andrews reading the flight and taking a mark in defence. He really needs to work on his kicking, both accuracy to a target and decision making. We really should have a small defender running off his hip, or in position to receive a handball out wide, to take the kick for Payne. Anyone of Rich, Coleman, Starcevich or Rayner.
Wilmot on a wing (or as a half back). The kid is just a smart player. He still has learning to do, but he's ahead Ah Chee, Prior and the like for me.
Oscar winning more and more of his tap outs, and placing them to his mids advantage as the game went on. That said, he wasn't up against quality opposition. Started off poorly against Fort, until Fort copped a knock to the head and had to get bandaged up.
The Bad.
Pretty much the same as last year.
Hodge said it last year, we rely way too much on individual talent, rather than having a game plan that can win games.
There was more of the same, hold the ball up, look for options up field, that don't materialise because no one leads or creates space for others, then kick down the line to a contest.
Still more of trying to slow the game down, poses the ball, and take the heat out of the oppositions game.
And more of if we're well up, trying to kill the game off from half way through the last quarter.
We're in trouble if Gardiner can't get up by the mid season break. We just don't appear to have another tall or medium tall defender that can actually play against AFL forwards, or that Fagan trusts.
Individually:
Joe and Eric are either lazy or just don't possess the smarts of Gunston or Dunkley up forward. There's no leading up to the ball, no movement if they miss a mark and the play moves on. Joe got up the ground a little bit, but neither worked particularly hard. Both of them should be showing the work rate similar to Jeremy Cameron. Eric still has bricks for hands, and Joe just wants to go for the spectacular.
Charlie Cameron is still a selfish player. Still shows too much frustration with his team mates if they don't lay it on a platter for him, or don't capitalize on his good or smart work. Honestly I want to see a more selfless Cameron.
Our midfield just doesn't work if we're playing all our "star" mids in there. We looked much better when one of Dev or Matho was in there, with Neale and anyone of the other class mids.
McCluggage just doesn't want to shoot for goal. Even when he's in range. Unless the game's won, and there's no pressure if he hits or misses.
We still have a lot of players in rehab, or who haven't had a proper preseason, who shouldn't be playing round 1. If Berry and/or Gardiner are in the team come round 1, Fagan doesn't trust the squads depth.
Overall impression.
I know it was just an intrasquad match, but I didn't see anything to suggest that out style of play has changed or evolved. To me, still a novice of the game, it looks pretty basic and unlikely to stand up against teams with a more developed game plan, or coaches that introduce different tactics for different oppositions.
Our games will still be won or lost on individual talent standing up.
If that's even remotely close to our standard come round 1, Port will do a number on us. If we don't show more in our upcoming practice matches, we're not making top 4.
There's very little synergy amongst our midfield. It's all individual brilliance from Lachie, Ashcroft, or Bailey collecting a clean tap down from Oscar, finding space and sending the ball forward. Otherwise our second string midfield, particularly Matho or Dev, generally won more of the hard balls, but the lessor skills of the second string team around the ground undid the good work of their inside midfielders.
OK the Good.
The best players on the ground, over the course of the evening were Andrews, Ashcroft, Gunston, Dunkley and Starcevich.
As has been mentioned, Gunston is such a smart footballer, and Dunkley was very good up forward as well.
Ashcroft on the wing or inside is just class and smart.
The Promising.
Payne has to be our second tall defender. He's just as good as Andrews reading the flight and taking a mark in defence. He really needs to work on his kicking, both accuracy to a target and decision making. We really should have a small defender running off his hip, or in position to receive a handball out wide, to take the kick for Payne. Anyone of Rich, Coleman, Starcevich or Rayner.
Wilmot on a wing (or as a half back). The kid is just a smart player. He still has learning to do, but he's ahead Ah Chee, Prior and the like for me.
Oscar winning more and more of his tap outs, and placing them to his mids advantage as the game went on. That said, he wasn't up against quality opposition. Started off poorly against Fort, until Fort copped a knock to the head and had to get bandaged up.
The Bad.
Pretty much the same as last year.
Hodge said it last year, we rely way too much on individual talent, rather than having a game plan that can win games.
There was more of the same, hold the ball up, look for options up field, that don't materialise because no one leads or creates space for others, then kick down the line to a contest.
Still more of trying to slow the game down, poses the ball, and take the heat out of the oppositions game.
And more of if we're well up, trying to kill the game off from half way through the last quarter.
We're in trouble if Gardiner can't get up by the mid season break. We just don't appear to have another tall or medium tall defender that can actually play against AFL forwards, or that Fagan trusts.
Individually:
Joe and Eric are either lazy or just don't possess the smarts of Gunston or Dunkley up forward. There's no leading up to the ball, no movement if they miss a mark and the play moves on. Joe got up the ground a little bit, but neither worked particularly hard. Both of them should be showing the work rate similar to Jeremy Cameron. Eric still has bricks for hands, and Joe just wants to go for the spectacular.
Charlie Cameron is still a selfish player. Still shows too much frustration with his team mates if they don't lay it on a platter for him, or don't capitalize on his good or smart work. Honestly I want to see a more selfless Cameron.
Our midfield just doesn't work if we're playing all our "star" mids in there. We looked much better when one of Dev or Matho was in there, with Neale and anyone of the other class mids.
McCluggage just doesn't want to shoot for goal. Even when he's in range. Unless the game's won, and there's no pressure if he hits or misses.
We still have a lot of players in rehab, or who haven't had a proper preseason, who shouldn't be playing round 1. If Berry and/or Gardiner are in the team come round 1, Fagan doesn't trust the squads depth.
Overall impression.
I know it was just an intrasquad match, but I didn't see anything to suggest that out style of play has changed or evolved. To me, still a novice of the game, it looks pretty basic and unlikely to stand up against teams with a more developed game plan, or coaches that introduce different tactics for different oppositions.
Our games will still be won or lost on individual talent standing up.
Last edited:
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This is the year where we find out whether we can be a great team or just a really good team with some great players.
Nunez
Premium Platinum
That's an incredible conclusion to draw from a scratchie. Respectfully, if you'd played a competitive team sport you'd appreciate how little these sort of matches mean to players outside of it being a bit of fun and a chance to break away from drills etc.
a decent chance for players to claim a first 22 spot... doubt these fringe blokes are thinking it's all fun and games.
This is the year we find out if Fagan is the coach we need/want.
I'll say this, with the lack of KPP depth, and the number of players who haven't had a proper or uninterrupted preseason, we're not starting the season as the favourites I thought we should be.
I've never paid any attention at all to practice matches ever since I used to go and watch Fitzroy in the pre season coming away convinced we'd unearthed 3 or 4 champions but Britzoon did make some interesting points nonetheless
Nunez
Premium Platinum
The coaches are fully aware an intraclub scratchie is not a real match. The fringe guys rotated through both teams which is a perfect example of that. Looking for signs of Synergy, not perfect, elite football against their teammates.
That's one concern I do have. We seem to have quite a few players who have had an interrupted preparation or not much prep. at all.
Nunez
Premium Platinum
Forming an opinion on a teams prospects based on pre season form would have you believe Brisbane were flag favourites in 2013.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
- Nov 26, 2018
- 9,304
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I am not as down on the intraclub as Briztoon but what was mentioned has some merit.
So, adding to points already made but just in a general way.
Joe did some rucking today and was fine, so he will be our ruck relief.
Fullerton played in defense all the time with the "A" team defense group. Payne gets the gig before Fullarton.
I am so glad they played Fullarton in defense today. They need to stick to this in the VFL as we need a ready replacement if any defenders get injured.
That "A" defense group played in the Red team the 1st half and Maroon the 2nd half.
The back from injury group of Lyons, Berry and Payne played in the Red "B" team all day.
No injuries that i noticed except a bloody nose to Arnold.
Ashcroft (Maroon) played a fair bit of time on the wing today and still found the footy easily enough.
Wilmot (Maroon) also played most if not all of the game on the wing. He looked more settled today.
McKenna was with the "A" team defense group all day.
Dev, Ah Chee & Prior spent time in both Red & Maroon
I only took photos of the player positions whiteboard today. This gives people an idea of who played where.
Below image is the Maroon team for the last quarter only. I will put other quarters up in a separate post.
So, adding to points already made but just in a general way.
Joe did some rucking today and was fine, so he will be our ruck relief.
Fullerton played in defense all the time with the "A" team defense group. Payne gets the gig before Fullarton.
I am so glad they played Fullarton in defense today. They need to stick to this in the VFL as we need a ready replacement if any defenders get injured.
That "A" defense group played in the Red team the 1st half and Maroon the 2nd half.
The back from injury group of Lyons, Berry and Payne played in the Red "B" team all day.
No injuries that i noticed except a bloody nose to Arnold.
Ashcroft (Maroon) played a fair bit of time on the wing today and still found the footy easily enough.
Wilmot (Maroon) also played most if not all of the game on the wing. He looked more settled today.
McKenna was with the "A" team defense group all day.
Dev, Ah Chee & Prior spent time in both Red & Maroon
I only took photos of the player positions whiteboard today. This gives people an idea of who played where.
Below image is the Maroon team for the last quarter only. I will put other quarters up in a separate post.
Attachments
It was obvious that Neale was going through the motions, but there were a lot of players out there busting their arses.
Sitting in the stand. I got a rather somber feeling from the fans that stuck around until the end. Lot of clapping of goals to start the game, that pretty much dried up by the second half.
For sure . I'm not into forming any opinion on it , just interested to see who's up and running fit and well come round 1.
Nunez
Premium Platinum
Sounds like a stock standard scratchie tbh.
Nunez
Premium Platinum
Yeah, fitness and physical development is probably the biggest things you can learn from the pre season. Players won't start two way running and playing a proper brand of footy until they line up against opposition.
rye
⠀
- Apr 24, 2022
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sounds concerning but reserving judgement until proper practice matches against sydney / geelong
Four weeks to fine tune so no need for panic stations just yet. As ever, skills remain a concern for me. Darcy Wilmot coming along nicely. Still scratching my head over wtf the objective of that second quarter was. Lachie Neale is a ridiculously good footballer.
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
- Nov 26, 2018
- 9,304
- 14,875
- AFL Club
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Fish's summary of intra club.
www.afl.com.au
Star recruits shine again as Lions tune up for Swans clash
Brisbane's star recruits continue to impress ahead of its first practice game next week against Sydney
www.afl.com.au
Grasshopper17
They're goin' all the way the orange tsunami
- Mar 12, 2003
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Thanks for the kind words! In a way I actually did make a (very very part time) career out of it during lockdown when I was living in Sydney. I covered games for a text commentary app called Tribe. Kind of like CricInfo but for all sports. Had a privilege of covering the 2021 GF and in 2020 also got to do the "Robbie Great" game. The full commentary is still available on the app if anyone is interested
Grasshopper17
They're goin' all the way the orange tsunami
- Mar 12, 2003
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- Other Teams
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Unusually for me, I'm also a little more upbeat after today's game than (a) briztoon and (b) I was last week. I thought our midfield defended much better (both midfield groups in the first half), and while it made for a scrappy affair in Q2 as Mr Ripper pointed out, I think we needed a bit of that after what I thought was a poor effort in that regard last week. Even with the ball I thought there was a bit more run from behind to handball receive than in previous years. Whether that translates to AFL level, only time will tell.
That said, if briz does turn out to be correct and this turns into another wasted season, then we absolutely do need a new head coach and probably a whole new coaching group next year. The time for excuses has well and truly come and gone.
Looking at the last two whireboard photos I don't think the coaching staff have settled on the wingers for the opening round.
Sharp’s disposal really let’s him down.
Depending on Berry’s fitness, I’d probably go with Ashcroft, Wilmot and one of Ah Che or Prior.
I genuinely believe we need one of Dev or Mathieson in the side (or Lyons), doing the grunt work.
Neale is very good at swooping on the loose ground ball in a contest, but I’ve noticed he’s not in there banging bodies as much in contests.
