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Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

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Come on Bruno, you know that wasn’t the point I was making. I’m just saying for Scott to build his blueprint on things, it was going to take time to workout what is going right and what is going wrong at Essendon. No one respects a know-it-all coming in and saying my way or the Highway, especially when this list has seen many coaches come and go.

But overall, this is a rather weird response. Because it seems like you would go in the club, like a raging bull with an outside view of what’s going on, come to all of these conclusions you don’t exactly have full knowledge of and lose the players and staff straight away.


How is it a weird response?

You wanted to school me about leadership of organisations as a way of supporting Scott's handling of the season.

You specifically made it about me, inferring both that I dont know anything and that we should defer to the all knowing experts, it seeming to be the case that you might consider yourself to be one of the all knowing experts.

I was simply sarcastically illustrating how, if it was up to me, the person who knows nothing and is not an expert, we would not have wasted a year to get to the point that the coach is 'laying down the law' or 'hitting people in the eyes' one season into his tenure.

You've lost yourself in your own strawman. I don't recall, even while being hyperbolic, suggesting that being angry, aggressive, rude or disrespectful toward anyone is how Scott or anyone else should approach this situation.

The reason the strawman is important is because it seems to be the reason you can't envisage any approach, other than for Scott to leave the rot in the place. Everything else seems to involve an unreasonable confrontation.

There are at least 2 major problems with this position:

1) influential senior players asked for intervention. Scott had a licence to demand change immediately but decided not to be the firm hand these players (one of whom was made captain) requested;

2) there is no need for confrontation. I assume Lyon doesn't give 2 shits about anything that's gone past that is inconsistent with what he expects. It's made clear what the expectations are and you can forget about a spot if you fall below those expectations. By the time he is confrontational, if at all, I doubt there is anyone who disagrees with him. There is then team selection. Contrast these standards and the immediate implementation of sustainable football with our football becoming ultimately less sustainable because our transition game is currently further from where it needs to be than it was 12 to 24 months ago.

Why am I so confident in my position?

Take a step back and see what is staring you and everyone else in the face. Scott cracked the shits post R24.

Does that sound like he is satisfied with standards throughout the season?

Did he do that because of 1 or 2 games? Our last 6 weeks was deplorable. There wasn't much before that this side of the by. Honestly, if I haven't already said it in this thread, we are worse now than at any point post Knight. When I say that I'm talking about the overall style of play. I don't care for results the oddities of a draw can throw up unless we're ticking off fundamentals (e.g. the hard ball, forward pressure, tackling intensity and 2 way defensive substance). Everything else is noise, junk that confuses commentators and experts like David King.

You and others are patting Scott on the back for being a year late and letting things get to the point that he needed to be confrontational.

You're also operating on the assumption
that this becomes the start of the new dawn that finally gets us on track.

At this point in time that's hope based on Scott now starting to implement change. How about we see some of that change first? To this point everything he has done is geared toward less focus on hardball, less focus on forward pressure and the defensive transition.

Are you starting to see how the players standards were allowed to be poor? I believe actions speak louder than words. So when you let players get away with a system of play that is weaker than what it was, you're sending a signal that they are fundamentally on the right track. Once you do that you're not improving anything, people dont just change because you tell them they should. I've got enough life experience to know that to be true.
 
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How is it a weird response?

You wanted to school me about leadership of organisations as a way of supporting Scott's handling of the season.

You specifically made it about me, inferring both that I dont know anything and that we should defer to the all knowing experts, it seeming to be the case that you might consider yourself to be one of the all knowing experts.

I was simply sarcastically illustrating how, if it was up to me, the person who knows nothing and is not an expert, we would not have wasted a year to get to the point that the coach is 'laying down the law' or 'hitting people in the eyes' one season into his tenure.

You've lost yourself in your own strawman. I don't recall, even while being hyperbolic, suggesting that being angry, aggressive, rude or disrespectful toward anyone is how Scott or anyone else should approach this situation.

The reason the strawman is important is because it seems to be the reason you can't envisage any approach, other than for Scott to leave the rot in the place. Everything else seems to involve an unreasonable confrontation.

There are at least 2 major problems with this position:

1) influential senior players asked for intervention. Scott had a licence to demand change immediately but decided not to be the firm hand these players (one of whom was made captain) requested;

2) there is no need for confrontation. I assume Lyon doesn't give 2 shits about anything that's gone past that is inconsistent with what he expects. It's made clear what the expectations are and you can forget about a spot if you fall below those expectations. By the time he is confrontational, if at all, I doubt there is anyone who disagrees with him. There is then team selection. Contrast these standards and the immediate implementation of sustainable football with our football becoming ultimately less sustainable because our transition game is currently further from where it needs to be than it was 12 to 24 months ago.

Why am I so confident in my position?

Take a step back and see what is staring you and everyone else in the face. Scott cracked the shits post R24.

Does that sound like he is satisfied with standards throughout the season?

Did he do that because of 1 or 2 games? Our last 6 weeks was deplorable. There wasn't much before that this side of the by. Honestly, if I haven't already said it in this thread, we are worse now than at any point post Knight. When I say that I'm talking about the overall style of play. I don't care for results the oddities of a draw can throw up unless we're ticking off fundamentals (e.g. the hard ball, forward pressure, tackling intensity and 2 way defensive substance). Everything else is noise, junk that confuses commentators and experts like David King.

You and others are patting Scott on the back for being a year late and letting things get to the point that he needed to be confrontational.

You're also operating on the assumption
that this becomes the start of the new dawn that finally gets us on track.

At this point in time that's hope based on Scott now starting to implement change. How about we see some of that change first? To this point everything he has done is geared toward less focus on hardball, less focus on forward pressure and the defensive transition.

Are you starting to see how the players standards were allowed to be poor? I believe actions speak louder than words. So when you let players get away with a system of play that is weaker than what it was, you're sending a signal that they are fundamentally on the right track. Once you do that you're not improving anything, people dont just change because you tell them they should. I've got enough life experience to know that to be true.

Question from the audience - if you’re put in Barham’s position today, what’s your move? Is it replace Scott? If so, with who coming in?

Or is it that you’d be tearing Scott a new one for not being as ruthless as you’d have expected/demanded?

Not a smartsss question, more curious based on your view on where things sit now
 

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Question from the audience - if you’re put in Barham’s position today, what’s your move? Is it replace Scott? If so, with who coming in?

Or is it that you’d be tearing Scott a new one for not being as ruthless as you’d have expected/demanded?

Not a smartsss question, more curious based on your view on where things sit now


It's a very difficult question to answer because we don't get to this point in a vacuum.

If I had actually vetted him, instead of begging him to take the job, and he got the job as part of a recruitment process he couldn't have won it without a clear plan for how to address the specific cultural rot at Essendon with an understanding of the context in which it exists. This a clear KPI and it has virtually nothing to do with results.

So if he then ignores all of that to deliver this season, I'm tearing him a new one in the politest way possible. I wouldn't threaten him with his job, at least not initially, but I'd need a very clear understanding of how things will change. I'd probably dilute his power in the footy department pending his ability to perform. Everything goes through Vozzo.

Problem there is that you don't get to be in a position of power at Essendon unless you drink the Koolaid.

So if I'm Barham, what do I do? Well, I don't really have a leg to stand on, do I? I appointed Scott as a political exercise, falling for a stack of empty cliches in the process, and left it to Scott to work it all out. I guess I set a non negotiable set of KPIs for the next season starting with list management. Don't show me a list for 2024 that leaves him in the bind of selecting the same 22. Fix the hardball and start on forward defence or there's the door.

How you turn those into specific KPIs I'd need to think about.
 
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I vaguely recall wins against the Dees, Adelaide when they were up and about, near misses against Port and some other promising signs earlier in the season. It does seem that falling off a cliff in the last weeks of the season has colored views of the season as a whole.

In 2009 we ended St Kilda's streak, big deal.

You're not going to find me supporting much of what we have done.
 
Too soon for conspiracies Bruno.
This is the bloke who rang SEN saying Scott was a plant to keep Hird away from the club. He is well into his conspiracy.
 
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Those yelling the loudest either had unrealistic expectations or have refused to take on board that the club has actually allowed the coach and CEO to spend a year taking a look under a basic game plan and seeing exactly what they have across all of the playing list .IMO of course.
 
Those yelling the loudest either had unrealistic expectations or have refused to take on board that the club has actually allowed the coach and CEO to spend a year taking a look under a basic game plan and seeing exactly what they have across all of the playing list .IMO of course.


So on this version, why did they need to give Scott this leeway?

It's because he was the best guy for the job, yeah?

The one all over the list and with the plans? Blew the panel away with his presentation during round 1, no doubt.
 

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So on this version, why did they need to give Scott this leeway?

It's because he was the best guy for the job, yeah?

The one all over the list and with the plans? Blew the panel away with his presentation during round 1, no doubt.
I am not going down your rabbit hole . I was not convinced at the start which I posted but my expectations where not he was going to be able to do a lot in the first year. Was always prepared to look at this year and see what happens from now.
Think my first post in this thread was about seeing if the players where still downhill skiers.
We will never be on the same page as our expectations where different at the start.
 
So on this version, why did they need to give Scott this leeway?

It's because he was the best guy for the job, yeah?

The one all over the list and with the plans? Blew the panel away with his presentation during round 1, no doubt.
The onfield stuff was always going to be an assessment year. I am willing to give a bit of leeway there.

It is the off field stuff that often gets overlooked. I think Scott & Vozzo have really stabilized the club from an admin point of view. Much more focus on Footy, coaches etc. This will take time to reap benefits but you can't have success on field without off field stability. We don't even hear the backstabbing from Sheedy and players actually WANT to stay.

Already Scott has earmarked the off season as pivotal and next season is really where he can have some influence and be properly judged.
 
Those yelling the loudest either had unrealistic expectations or have refused to take on board that the club has actually allowed the coach and CEO to spend a year taking a look under a basic game plan and seeing exactly what they have across all of the playing list .IMO of course.
Years played out largely as promised

A year to assess
Still lots of work to do to be a good club
Wins are good but don't lose sight of the long term (a reality that set in in the last month)

Now is the real read on Scott. Next 4-5m will be a good read on where he's taking us.
 
so heard a rumour that after Scott gave the team a bake at the end of the season, the number of players who voluntarily registered for the altitude training course jumped considerably (ie at least 10 players).

good to see

Before everyone jumps in and says ‘the benefits of altitude training are negligible at best’.

The point is that they are doing extra work
 

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Before everyone jumps in and says ‘the benefits of altitude training are negligible at best’.

The point is that they are doing extra work
plus it’s smart tax wise to have a “training” overseas vacay rather than an end of season trip
 
How is it a weird response?

You wanted to school me about leadership of organisations as a way of supporting Scott's handling of the season.

You specifically made it about me, inferring both that I dont know anything and that we should defer to the all knowing experts, it seeming to be the case that you might consider yourself to be one of the all knowing experts.

I was simply sarcastically illustrating how, if it was up to me, the person who knows nothing and is not an expert, we would not have wasted a year to get to the point that the coach is 'laying down the law' or 'hitting people in the eyes' one season into his tenure.

You've lost yourself in your own strawman. I don't recall, even while being hyperbolic, suggesting that being angry, aggressive, rude or disrespectful toward anyone is how Scott or anyone else should approach this situation.

The reason the strawman is important is because it seems to be the reason you can't envisage any approach, other than for Scott to leave the rot in the place. Everything else seems to involve an unreasonable confrontation.

There are at least 2 major problems with this position:

1) influential senior players asked for intervention. Scott had a licence to demand change immediately but decided not to be the firm hand these players (one of whom was made captain) requested;

2) there is no need for confrontation. I assume Lyon doesn't give 2 shits about anything that's gone past that is inconsistent with what he expects. It's made clear what the expectations are and you can forget about a spot if you fall below those expectations. By the time he is confrontational, if at all, I doubt there is anyone who disagrees with him. There is then team selection. Contrast these standards and the immediate implementation of sustainable football with our football becoming ultimately less sustainable because our transition game is currently further from where it needs to be than it was 12 to 24 months ago.

Why am I so confident in my position?

Take a step back and see what is staring you and everyone else in the face. Scott cracked the shits post R24.

Does that sound like he is satisfied with standards throughout the season?

Did he do that because of 1 or 2 games? Our last 6 weeks was deplorable. There wasn't much before that this side of the by. Honestly, if I haven't already said it in this thread, we are worse now than at any point post Knight. When I say that I'm talking about the overall style of play. I don't care for results the oddities of a draw can throw up unless we're ticking off fundamentals (e.g. the hard ball, forward pressure, tackling intensity and 2 way defensive substance). Everything else is noise, junk that confuses commentators and experts like David King.

You and others are patting Scott on the back for being a year late and letting things get to the point that he needed to be confrontational.

You're also operating on the assumption
that this becomes the start of the new dawn that finally gets us on track.

At this point in time that's hope based on Scott now starting to implement change. How about we see some of that change first? To this point everything he has done is geared toward less focus on hardball, less focus on forward pressure and the defensive transition.

Are you starting to see how the players standards were allowed to be poor? I believe actions speak louder than words. So when you let players get away with a system of play that is weaker than what it was, you're sending a signal that they are fundamentally on the right track. Once you do that you're not improving anything, people dont just change because you tell them they should. I've got enough life experience to know that to be true.
Where did I say I was an expert? I actually said “I could be wrong.”

Where did I pat Scott on the back?

Where did I say this would get us on the right track? I believe I said roughly “it may not even work out, but I’m willing to give him more than a year to turn it around.”

Bruno, for someone who doesn’t like the use of the straw man arguments, you have done a lot of it here.
 
Where did I say I was an expert? I actually said “I could be wrong.”

Where did I pat Scott on the back?

Where did I say this would get us on the right track? I believe I said roughly “it may not even work out, but I’m willing to give him more than a year to turn it around.”

Bruno, for someone who doesn’t like the use of the straw man arguments, you have done a lot of it here.

Do you have a substantive response or not?

If my strawmen aren't accurate isn't you're whole position a Hail Mary?
 

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Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

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