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Looking ahead to 2024

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twhowler said:
Not sure if there is a thread for this, didn't see one so i am bored and doing my best 22

ROUND 1

B: Lester Payne Starcevich
HB: Coleman Andrews Wilmot
C: Fletcher Neale Berry
HF: Rayner Hipwood Bailey
F: Cameron Daniher McCarthy
FOll: McInerney Neale McCluggage
Int: McKenna Fort Roberston Sharp
Sub: Ah Chee
EMERGENCIES: Gardiner / Zorko / Lohmann / Prior
DESTINED TO BE DEPTH ONLY?: Answerth / Joyce / Gunston / Lyons
POTENTIAL BOLTERS: Tunstill / Brain

I think we need to give Fort a go as second ruck and see what it does to the team. If we are struggling for run he can be subbed out. But Sharp in should help us in term of run, with sharp / fletcher / berry to cover some serious ks.

I think by logic and other year won't help Lyons or Gunston so they could both struggle, if they do go on (on good coin so why not).

The only best 22 player likely to struggle is Zorko so that's a good position to be in.

POST BYE

ROUND 1

B: Doedee Payne Starcevich
HB: Coleman Andrews Wilmot
C: Fletcher Neale Berry
HF: Rayner Hipwood Bailey
F: Cameron Daniher McCarthy
FOll: McInerney Neale McCluggage
Int: McKenna Fort Ashcroft Sharp
Sub: Roberston
EMERGENCIES: Lester / Zorko / Lohmann / Ah Chee
DESTINED TO BE DEPTH ONLY?: Answerth / Joyce / Gunston / Lyons / Gardiner / Prior
POTENTIAL BOLTERS: Tunstill / Brain

Obvious 2 inclusions in Doedee and Ashcroft. Some unlucky outs. If there is one player to get back relatively early and be in good touch it is Ashcroft. Can't imagine him being too rusty, will just make sure he gets in all the ball-handling he can. Doedee is the interesting one. Done both knees now. Might be a bit cautious. Suspect he won't start that well but could see him as a weapon in the finals if he comes good, especially if Payne and Andrews are playing alongside him allowing him to take those intercept marks.

There is almost always a player or 2 that surprises and forces someone out. I think Sharp shows all the signs of stepping up and is what we need in terms of run. Lohmann is another obvious one - has the talent and has shown the desire to fight for a spot.

But we are quite a settled team and only bringing in 1 player it seems so it makes sense for not a lot of changes.

There are a lot of players in our best 28 or so players capable of major improvement. And not many who should go backwards.

So what about our rivals?

COLLINGWOOD - haven't seen them getting anyone major. Can their veterans be just as good? Just to suit my argument i will put all of their ages today PLUS ONE as in the age they would be by next year's grand final: Elliott 32yo, Mitchell 31yo, Pendlebury 36yo, Adams 31yo, Sidebottom 33yo, Crisp 31yo, Hoskin-Elliott 31yo, Howe 34yo, Mihocek 31yo, Cox 33yo. The pies just won the flag with the third oldest side ever. The cats smashed the swans with the oldest side ever so age is not bad! But it eventually catches up with you, so it will be interesting to see if injury or form is a factor for collingwood

MELBOURNE - an intriguing one. Doesn't seem to be going well atm but maybe Oliver gets a reality check and improves. Need a key forward and will be a big effort for Melksham to be back and effective by the finals. Petty could be a big effective inclusion. JVR in his third year and has looked handy. Gawn turns 32yo in December still playing very well though. 2 picks inside the top 20 so could get a readymade player. I could see it going either way - they could get their act together and be huge threat, or fall out of real contention.

GWS - Perhaps the most logical big contender for a top 2 spot. Travel exceptionally well. Only Ward at 33yo is the key player who is close to the end. Haynes couldn't even get a game. Also have 2 picks inside the top 20. They will get a top 6 draw which makes it a bit harder. Biggest question will be - can they maintain the incredible run from last year, or was there a honeymoon period in terms of playing for a new coach?

CARLTON - They should effectively get Zac Williams back. Small chance of a McKay for Oliver deal which would be significant for both sides. Appear very tightly constrained by salary cap otherwise and only pick 16 in terms of early picks. No players in the drop-off zone really, although Cripps will fall apart in couple of years given the battering he has copped. Like the giants the big question will be how much was a surge of momentum and how much is replicable form and gameplan?

PORT - honestly who knows? Signed Ken then didn't give a yelp. Surprised to see Boak going around again, he looks cooked. Big worry for them is they have a ripping midfield but not the key parts at either end. Dixon looks to be struggling. But Lord looks very promising and Marshall is very good player. Can they get a decent ruckman AND key defender? I feel as though a lot of close wins made their season look a bit better than it was. They were decent against us but terrible against the giants in the semi. I wouldn't rule them out and don't want to play them at AO but i wouldn't be putting them in my likely top 4.

SWANS - wouldn't rule them out. GRundy will be vital for them. Had some bad injuries last season. Not many players dropping off. Mills a decent loss though. Danger side for sure.

CROWS - weird team to assess. If they had flipped some of their close games the would have been top 4. Great attack but when will Walker drop off? He has just kicked 76 goals so chances are he is good again but some risk. Their midfield is a good player short and they don't seem to be chasing anyone - even though they toweled us up! Dawson is a gun. Laird is very good but limited in what he can do. Keays a tagger. O'Brien like Oscar decent ruckman but no gun. I think in the end their midfield will hold them back from being at the top end.

CATS - can't see them challenging with Hawkins not the player he was and plenty of others the wrong side of 30, but again hoping we don't get them at the cattery

DOGS an interesting watch as their tall talent comes of age, seem to be treading water

SUNS - is this the year? don't think they challenge for the flag but could be an early season bolter
Click to expand...

Dunkley?


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twhowler said:
Dunkley?

One goat!

Looks like i did 2 Neales so pop dunks in for either one :)
Click to expand...
Naah, I think we'd perform better with two Neales.
 

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Must admit I’m a little hesitant on 2024, Neal past 30 now. I realise he just won a Brownlow, but we rely on him so much and the truth his he’s peaked and whilst he will maintain a terrific level no one expect him to continue to carry the midfield going forward.


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Scubaveg said:
Must admit I’m a little hesitant on 2024, Neal past 30 now. I realise he just won a Brownlow, but we rely on him so much and the truth his he’s peaked and whilst he will maintain a terrific level no one expect him to continue to carry the midfield going forward.


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Click to expand...
I expect Dunks will now step up and play a different role. He has the tools to replace Neale as the no1 mid. McCluggage is also now well entrenched in there. I have no fear about our midfield improving next year.
 
irel said:
I expect Dunks will now step up and play a different role. He has the tools to replace Neale as the no1 mid. McCluggage is also now well entrenched in there. I have no fear about our midfield improving next year.
Click to expand...

Dunks stepping up to #1 midfield role means we need someone else to be a defensive mid. I don’t mind the Neal Dunkley Ashcroft Clugga rotation, but who do you see as that defensive mid?


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Scubaveg said:
Dunks stepping up to #1 midfield role means we need someone else to be a defensive mid. I don’t mind the Neal Dunkley Ashcroft Clugga rotation, but who do you see as that defensive mid?


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Click to expand...
Dev will need to step up. If not Dev we need to find a big bodied mid (Berry) that can take the battering inside the contest.
 
Also, the forgotten mid. Answerth. He was trailed in the seconds with performing the inside defensive mid role and did exceptionally well until he got his face smashed. Another option for us to consider. Collingwood proved you don't need an A grader, you just need a foot soldier to do his job.
 
irel said:
Also, the forgotten mid. Answerth. He was trailed in the seconds with performing the inside defensive mid role and did exceptionally well until he got his face smashed. Another option for us to consider. Collingwood proved you don't need an A grader, you just need a foot soldier to do his job.
Click to expand...

You need skillfull long runners is what Collingwood proved.
 
irel said:
Also, the forgotten mid. Answerth. He was trailed in the seconds with performing the inside defensive mid role and did exceptionally well until he got his face smashed. Another option for us to consider. Collingwood proved you don't need an A grader, you just need a foot soldier to do his job.
Click to expand...

Dev and Berry I can see. Berry in particular frees up a wing spot for a Sharp as well. Answerth I’m not sure he’s big enough…


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Hopefully the squad has the hunger to go back to the well. It’s tough after all the work we did and the grind to finish top 2, to go back to the starting grid again.

A super early prediction, but I reckon we’ll have a longer mid-season lull next year before starting to hit our straps as finals near. Hopefully we can bank enough early wins to hold us in good stead to finish top 2 again. I think we’ll struggle to win it if we don’t.

The inclusion of Ashcroft and Doedee after the bye will be massive if we have a fit squad - competition for spots if nothing else.
 
The competition over the last 2 years has got fairly even bar the bottom 3 teams.
I think top 4 should be the Lions goal again in 2024. That will be hard enough to achieve.

New entries to the 8 this year were Port, Blues, Saints, Giants
Out of that group i think the Saints will struggle to make the 8 in 2024.
Who dropped out of the 8 from 2022. Cats, Dockers, Tigers & Dogs.

The teams outside the 8 that may move up in 2024. Crows then possibly Cats & Dogs
 

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Section 5 said:
The competition over the last 2 years has got fairly even bar the bottom 3 teams.
I think top 4 should be the Lions goal again in 2024. That will be hard enough to achieve.

New entries to the 8 this year were Port, Blues, Saints, Giants
Out of that group i think the Saints will struggle to make the 8 in 2024.
Who dropped out of the 8 from 2022. Cats, Dockers, Tigers & Dogs.

The teams outside the 8 that may move up in 2024. Crows then possibly Cats & Dogs
Click to expand...

Crows can make a big jump if they get more top-end quality and class into their midfield.

They should look for a Neale-type recruit this off season to help them rise like we did in 2019.
 
Took me a week to get over the sadness and the what ifs of the GF, now time to move on to next season.

1- I would like to see us during pre season/early rounds H&A give Shadeau Brain a go off half back and Darcy Wilmot a run on the wing.
2- Give Noah Answerth a shot as a defensive mid to free up Josh Dunkley a bit.
3- Dayne Zorko needs to be 95%+ fitness to play.
4- Tom Doedee, Jack Payne and Will Ashcroft into the GF side makes us substantially better IMO.
5- I have my doubts he is going to make it at AFL level but would love to see Harry Sharp grab a pure wing role.
6- Our wingers were out run, out smarted and out skilled comprehensively GF day, need to improve.

Come 2024 finals this is the side I would hope to see >

Keidean Coleman, Jack Payne, Tom Doedee.
Connor McKenna, Harris Andrews, Darcy Wilmot/Shadeau Brain.

Oscar McInerney, Lachie Neale, Josh Dunkley.
Jaspa Fletcher, Hugh McCluggage, Will Ashcroft.

Charlie Cameron, Eric Hipwood, Lincoln McCarthy.
Cam Rayner, Joe Daniher, Dayne Zorko(fit).

Zac Bailey, Dev Robertson, Brandon Starcevich... + 1 of Jarrod Berry/Darcy Wilmot/Harry Sharp/Callum Ah Chee/Shadeau Brain.
______________________________________________
That is Ryan Lester, Darcy Gardiner and Jarryd Lyons out of the GF side, all good depth if needed.

The next 2 years we are smack bang in the middle of a flag window, get to September in good shape and we can go 1 better in 2024-25.:brisbane:
 
mpal6 said:
Crows can make a big jump if they get more top-end quality and class into their midfield.

They should look for a Neale-type recruit this off season to help them rise like we did in 2019.
Click to expand...
Linked to Oliver for a short time but i doubt that happens.
I think the Crows just build on their list for i more year and hope that is enough to get them into the 8.
They have reasonably good draft picks being 9. 21 & 24 at present. So could snag someone if they wanted to go to the Crows.
Will also get something for Doedee and McAdam to add to that.

Rumor about Chris Burgess coming in but that won't costs them much. A pick swap most likely.
 
Kernel Kurtz said:
The pies seam to not use the other side when they were on one side or at least not as wide as what we we’re attempting .
We simply fell into a bit of a trap in this regard .
This might be one of those learnings
I’m hoping.
Click to expand...
They didn't have to use the other side because they only had to get the ball as far as into the corridor, and then from there they'd already created all the space they needed. Plenty of room then to hit up a leading forward. Easy. To me it was as much a work rate issue as anything.
 
briztoon said:
I don’t believe toughness is an issue for Hipwood. He’s definitely got some mongrel about him.

My opinion is his slight build is his biggest problem, lack of core strength due his length, followed by an inability to take one grab marks.
Click to expand...
Think it's mental with Hipwood, which could stem from some of what you're saying to be fair.

Some days he's Maverick, reckless and fearless. He treads on toes and doesn't give a stuff who or what's in his way.

Then other days he's Goose. "Do you think it would be a good idea if I... would you mind if I... oh bugger it's gone 🤷‍♂️"

Just bloody do it Eric. Ask for forgiveness not permission.

 

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Appreciate that this thread is about the Lions. But I was hoping to branch off briefly to the competition as a whole.

Collingwood won the flag, so teams are going to copy what they do.

Among other things, this means 18 teams are going to be knuckling down on their "end of game management". Much like we did after the Melbourne game in Round 18.

This means next season we're gonna have the thrilling spectacle where the last 6-7 minutes of EVERY close game is an unseemly quagmire of ball up after ball up after ball up after boundary throw in after long kick down the line after mark after chip kick sideways after chip kick sideways after chip kick backwards.

It's going to become our version of the NFL's "taking a knee".

I mean the AFL has a pretty easy choice to make here. Either they remove "prior opportunity" from the rule book now and save us all the trouble, or they put us (and themselves, and their umpires) through this for 28 weeks. And THEN they get rid of it.

Read the room Dillon & Kane.



The other thing I think we'll see more of is the Frampton role on Andrews. Tall forwards playing defensive roles on intercept defenders. We saw Ben King do it against us also. I've been calling out for this for a couple of years, even to the point of calling for Fullarton to play on Lever in the final against Melbourne back in 2021.

Must admit I'm excited to see where this might lead. The Frampton role was very much a one-on-one role, ie just neutralise him as best you can, The End. But as these roles become more prevalent, forward groups will start planning for this role, as in "if I just get to these guys' feet I'm a real good chance of getting a soft drop here".

I'd have loved to see Hipwood switch his focus in this way when it was clear he was struggling last Saturday. Maybe go to Moore and challenge Collingwood to make a decision of their own as to their own match ups. It becomes a great way to keep a struggling forward in the game.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
Appreciate that this thread is about the Lions. But I was hoping to branch off briefly to the competition as a whole.

Collingwood won the flag, so teams are going to copy what they do.

Among other things, this means 18 teams are going to be knuckling down on their "end of game management". Much like we did after the Melbourne game in Round 18.

This means next season we're gonna have the thrilling spectacle where the last 6-7 minutes of EVERY close game is an unseemly quagmire of ball up after ball up after ball up after boundary throw in after long kick down the line after mark after chip kick sideways after chip kick sideways after chip kick backwards.

It's going to become our version of the NFL's "taking a knee".

I mean the AFL has a pretty easy choice to make here. Either they remove "prior opportunity" from the rule book now and save us all the trouble, or they put us (and themselves, and their umpires) through this for 28 weeks. And THEN they get rid of it.

Read the room Dillon & Kane.



The other thing I think we'll see more of is the Frampton role on Andrews. Tall forwards playing defensive roles on intercept defenders. We saw Ben King do it against us also. I've been calling out for this for a couple of years, even to the point of calling for Fullarton to play on Lever in the final against Melbourne back in 2021.

Must admit I'm excited to see where this might lead. The Frampton role was very much a one-on-one role, ie just neutralise him as best you can, The End. But as these roles become more prevalent, forward groups will start planning for this role, as in "if I just get to these guys' feet I'm a real good chance of getting a soft drop here".

I'd have loved to see Hipwood switch his focus in this way when it was clear he was struggling last Saturday. Maybe go to Moore and challenge Collingwood to make a decision of their own as to their own match ups. It becomes a great way to keep a struggling forward in the game.
Click to expand...
This might be too left field, but now that we have lost Fullarton, could a fully fit Payne do that type or role on a Moore type player? Payne certainly is fast enough to pressure Moore as he is attempting to get some run out of the backline, I even reckon 1 v 1 he would challenge Moore, and some doubt, but I suspect Paynes set shot kicking is/would be OK?
 
Grasshopper17 said:
Think it's mental with Hipwood, which could stem from some of what you're saying to be fair.

Some days he's Maverick, reckless and fearless. He treads on toes and doesn't give a stuff who or what's in his way.

Then other days he's Goose. "Do you think it would be a good idea if I... would you mind if I... oh bugger it's gone 🤷‍♂️"

Just bloody do it Eric. Ask for forgiveness not permission.

Click to expand...

It's interesting to see how the opposition view Hipwood and how they generally choose to play him.
 
On the quiet said:
This might be too left field, but now that we have lost Fullarton, could a fully fit Payne do that type or role on a Moore type player? Payne certainly is fast enough to pressure Moore as he is attempting to get some run out of the backline, I even reckon 1 v 1 he would challenge Moore, and some doubt, but I suspect Paynes set shot kicking is/would be OK?
Click to expand...

I think Payne is much more useful down back as his intercept marking improved this year. So having Andrews, Payne and Doedee all intercept marking it work make a Frampton type negator less effective.
 
Mayestro said:
I think Payne is much more useful down back as his intercept marking improved this year. So having Andrews, Payne and Doedee all intercept marking it work make a Frampton type negator less effective.
Click to expand...

Frampton was effective?
 

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