Review 2023 National Draft Review Thread II [McKercher, Z.Duursma, Goad, W.Dawson, Hardeman, Maley]

[Psicosis]

It would have been so easy for you to only include the second two paragraphs of this post... Thanks for the information, I guess.

Apologies for being direct. It’s just a narrative I’ve seen quite a bit and I just don’t buy it.

Our forward line last year finished with Larkey 71 goals, Stephenson 26 goals, Zurhaar 20 goals, Curtis 17 goals, Ford 12 goals, Thomas 11 goals.

To suggest we do not need someone that is extremely capable of kicking goals & statistically the best goal kicking u18 prospect, is just crazy to me.

 

[Shermanator]

View attachment 1838704

Reece Torrent = The raging

 

[Amicalola]

Apologies for being direct. It’s just a narrative I’ve seen quite a bit and I just don’t buy it.

Our forward line last year finished with Larkey 71 goals, Stephenson 26 goals, Zurhaar 20 goals, Curtis 17 goals, Ford 12 goals, Thomas 11 goals.

To suggest we do not need someone that is extremely capable of kicking goals & statistically the best goal kicking u18 prospect, is just crazy to me.

What if the issue is with our delivery though? I don't know the stats, but I would have to imagine we have among the worst I50 delivery across the league. Also worth noting a few of those players were out of the side for a lot of time. We are also the second-lowest team for I50s total, regardless of how well we execute them. If you get our delivery better, and our I50s up, it's not too hard to see Larkey hitting 80, Stephenson (full season) 35, Curtis 25, Ford (for a whole season) 25, Zurhaar (full season) 30, Thomas (full season) 30, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like only looking at 'goals scored' is a pretty small part of the actual process involved. I'm guessing Zane's delivery (relative to the overall level) in U18s is a hell of a lot better than ours. Maybe he gets to our team and is stuck at the same level as Stephenson, Ford, Zurhaar, etc. because we just aren't very good at getting it to him? Seems pretty plausible to me. A lot of our forwards are also quite young with room for significant growth, so their potential is higher than they are currently playing too.

I don't know much about the draft outside of the top 5-6, but it just seems like Curtin/Watson/McKercher all fit our needs a lot better than Duursma, while still being gun players like he is (just in different ways). Idk, I'm not an expert, that's just my impression.

I have the same issue with McKercher as well to a lesser extent, so maybe the answer is just 'football is a tough game, and if a player gets edged out by a new draft pick, they just need to get better themselves.'

 

[giantroo]

Bangers latest mock draft

 

[LB2Snake]

Yep as I said I think it's better if WCE rips the band-aid off if they're gonna trade it. I'd say WCE fans would be broken by a draft night trade.

They‘ll always have their cash. Rich club don’t ya know.

 

[Shermanator]

Bangers latest mock draft

View attachment 1839049

Collard would be great but is a flight risk.

 

[kirbonavich]

For those that are interested, Coates + U18 collated data averaged out for review included an extra 15-20 players.

Do with it what you will.

Note* The below have no data for CP, UP or Clearances to analyse.

Bailey Vande Heuvel
Calsher Dear
Charlie Edwards
Cooper Trembath
Luke Lloyd
Sam Clohesy
Tew Jiath

Player - COATES + U18 AVE

KICKS

HANDBALLS

DISPOSALS

MARKS

HITOUTS

TACKLES

CONTESTED

UNCONTESTED

CLEARANCE

INSIDE 50

REBOUND 50

GOALS

Archer Reid

6.36​

3.10​

9.46​

4.25​

2.65​

1.50​

1.40​

2.10​

0.40​

1.55​

0.00​

1.20​

Archie Roberts

11.47​

7.31​

18.78​

3.42​

0.00​

1.71​

1.88​

6.35​

0.24​

1.76​

4.82​

0.00​

Arie Schoenmaker

10.90​

3.48​

14.38​

5.29​

0.48​

1.10​

0.14​

4.00​

0.00​

1.90​

2.43​

0.33​

Ashton Moir

6.17​

3.00​

9.17​

3.67​

0.00​

1.17​

3.50​

5.33​

0.33​

1.50​

0.33​

1.17​

Bailey Vande Heuvel

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

Caiden Cleary

10.25​

16.64​

26.89​

4.33​

0.00​

5.20​

5.63​

9.13​

2.13​

4.25​

1.44​

0.13​

Caleb Windsor

10.78​

5.33​

16.11​

4.00​

0.00​

2.94​

4.50​

12.50​

0.75​

3.50​

0.94​

0.28​

Calsher Dear

6.30​

4.90​

11.20​

2.80​

2.30​

1.90​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

1.40​

0.10​

1.20​

Charlie Edwards

7.40​

3.60​

11.00​

3.20​

0.00​

2.20​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

1.20​

3.20​

0.00​

Colby McKercher

13.65​

13.61​

27.24​

4.29​

0.00​

3.97​

2.96​

7.44​

1.76​

5.36​

1.44​

0.69​

Connor O'Sullivan

7.89​

6.43​

13.59​

6.48​

0.33​

1.58​

2.53​

5.05​

0.21​

1.16​

1.95​

0.26​

Cooper Simpson

8.40​

10.35​

18.75​

3.05​

0.00​

2.95​

0.10​

0.30​

0.05​

3.50​

1.15​

0.65​

Cooper Trembath

9.00​

5.00​

14.00​

7.14​

0.00​

2.43​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.29​

4.57​

0.00​

Daniel Curtin

13.00​

10.25​

23.25​

4.25​

0.00​

4.75​

10.00​

13.00​

5.00​

2.75​

2.75​

0.00​

Darcy Wilson

11.03​

5.53​

16.55​

4.48​

0.00​

2.10​

1.80​

2.78​

0.53​

3.33​

1.35​

1.05​

Ethan Read

11.09​

7.73​

18.82​

5.55​

14.73​

2.36​

7.00​

13.75​

2.50​

2.18​

1.18​

0.09​

George Stevens

11.27​

7.01​

18.28​

2.81​

0.00​

3.95​

4.80​

4.93​

2.00​

2.13​

2.53​

0.67​

Harley Reid

10.71​

8.54​

19.25​

4.19​

0.00​

3.64​

3.57​

2.36​

1.93​

3.82​

1.36​

1.15​

Harry De Mattia

7.40​

4.61​

12.01​

2.20​

0.00​

2.76​

1.50​

3.80​

0.90​

3.10​

1.30​

0.35​

Jack Delean

4.43​

2.00​

6.43​

1.57​

0.00​

1.71​

3.29​

3.29​

0.57​

1.29​

0.00​

1.57​

Jake Rogers

9.82​

12.55​

22.36​

2.55​

0.00​

5.36​

8.50​

13.25​

5.50​

4.00​

0.36​

0.45​

James Leake

9.50​

6.77​

16.27​

4.00​

0.00​

3.00​

5.00​

11.25​

1.00​

2.00​

2.00​

0.00​

Jed Walter

8.46​

5.23​

13.69​

5.15​

1.69​

2.54​

7.00​

6.75​

0.50​

1.38​

0.00​

2.77​

Jordan Croft

5.22​

3.50​

8.72​

3.06​

3.44​

1.83​

4.33​

5.00​

1.00​

1.28​

0.06​

1.56​

Kai Windsor

10.22​

6.48​

16.70​

3.74​

0.00​

3.31​

1.57​

4.35​

0.26​

3.52​

0.91​

0.53​

Kane McAuliffe

9.50​

8.50​

18.00​

4.00​

0.00​

8.00​

9.25​

9.75​

4.00​

3.00​

1.50​

0.25​

Koen Sanchez

10.75​

7.00​

17.75​

4.75​

0.00​

3.25​

9.25​

9.00​

3.50​

2.00​

0.75​

1.50​

Koltyn Tholstrup

13.33​

5.00​

18.33​

6.00​

0.00​

1.67​

7.33​

10.67​

1.33​

6.00​

0.33​

0.33​

Lance Collard

2.33​

0.67​

3.00​

1.33​

0.00​

1.67​

0.67​

2.33​

0.00​

1.33​

0.00​

0.67​

Logan Evans

9.00​

5.33​

14.33​

2.00​

0.00​

5.00​

4.00​

7.00​

0.33​

0.33​

4.67​

0.00​

Logan Morris

7.13​

2.17​

9.29​

4.29​

0.25​

1.08​

0.92​

1.04​

0.04​

0.83​

0.38​

2.25​

Luamon Lual

7.08​

6.08​

13.17​

2.80​

0.00​

2.71​

1.33​

2.25​

0.00​

0.92​

3.00​

0.09​

Luke Lloyd

7.25​

4.17​

11.42​

4.67​

0.00​

1.83​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

2.00​

0.00​

1.58​

Michael Rudd

7.79​

5.33​

13.13​

4.08​

0.71​

1.83​

0.96​

0.83​

0.13​

2.83​

0.08​

1.04​

Mitch Edwards

2.67​

7.33​

10.00​

2.00​

23.00​

3.33​

7.33​

3.33​

2.00​

1.33​

1.00​

0.33​

Nate Caddy

7.64​

5.85​

13.47​

4.22​

0.53​

3.06​

1.79​

1.79​

0.21​

2.58​

0.37​

1.58​

Nick Watson

8.84​

4.33​

13.17​

3.01​

0.00​

2.00​

2.53​

2.42​

0.42​

1.42​

0.42​

2.79​

Ollie Murphy

6.82​

3.20​

10.02​

4.18​

0.27​

1.20​

2.91​

5.09​

0.00​

0.18​

3.00​

0.00​

Reece Torrent

11.75​

5.25​

17.00​

4.50​

0.00​

2.50​

7.25​

9.75​

1.50​

4.00​

1.00​

0.25​

Riley Hardeman

14.75​

3.75​

18.50​

5.75​

0.00​

1.75​

3.50​

10.50​

0.25​

1.50​

6.25​

0.00​

Ryley Sanders

8.96​

13.40​

22.36​

4.01​

0.00​

3.81​

4.56​

6.72​

1.60​

3.20​

1.92​

0.36​

Sam Clohesy

15.43​

4.71​

20.14​

6.71​

0.14​

3.43​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

2.71​

2.71​

0.14​

Taylor Goad

4.00​

3.50​

7.50​

0.75​

16.50​

2.75​

4.50​

3.00​

1.50​

2.50​

0.50​

0.25​

Tew Jiath

7.33​

6.33​

13.67​

3.33​

0.00​

1.67​

0.00​

0.00​

0.00​

0.67​

3.33​

0.00​

Will Dawson

5.24​

3.00​

8.24​

3.24​

5.59​

3.29​

0.59​

0.59​

0.00​

1.06​

1.12​

0.41​

Will Graham

9.67​

8.33​

18.00​

4.11​

0.00​

4.56​

1.89​

5.00​

0.33​

3.11​

1.67​

0.11​

Will McCabe

7.00​

4.33​

11.33​

3.33​

0.00​

3.33​

4.67​

6.67​

0.33​

0.67​

2.33​

0.00​

William Green

4.48​

4.61​

9.10​

2.28​

19.00​

2.00​

2.38​

1.24​

0.86​

0.95​

0.57​

0.19​

Zane Duursma

8.87​

5.64​

14.51​

3.94​

0.00​

3.21​

6.50​

8.00​

2.50​

3.71​

0.29​

1.66​

 

[Psicosis]

What if the issue is with our delivery though? I don't know the stats, but I would have to imagine we have among the worst I50 delivery across the league. Also worth noting a few of those players were out of the side for a lot of time. We are also the second-lowest team for I50s total, regardless of how well we execute them. If you get our delivery better, and our I50s up, it's not too hard to see Larkey hitting 80, Stephenson (full season) 35, Curtis 25, Ford (for a whole season) 25, Zurhaar (full season) 30, Thomas (full season) 30, etc.

Delivery is one of our many issues. Whilst I wish I shared your optimism about (1) them all having a full season, (2) them kicking 225 goals between them, I’m not bypassing the best player available on those two hopes.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like only looking at 'goals scored' is a pretty small part of the actual process involved. I'm guessing Zane's delivery (relative to the overall level) in U18s is a hell of a lot better than ours. Maybe he gets to our team and is stuck at the same level as Stephenson, Ford, Zurhaar, etc. because we just aren't very good at getting it to him? Seems pretty plausible to me. A lot of our forwards are also quite young with room for significant growth, so their potential is higher than they are currently playing too.

Personally I think goals scored is a pretty good measure for u18 forwards. Seemed to translate well for Sheezel. That said, the fact Duursma kicks lots of goals, isn’t the sole reason he’s rated so highly. A lot of hypothesising in your post, obviously playing in our forward line is difficult. If we take him at 3 it’s likely because we think he’s better then Stephenson, Ford and Zurhaar, which isn’t really a big bold call. None of them have exactly set the world on fire, and may never. Hence, why you take best available.

I don't know much about the draft outside of the top 5-6, but it just seems like Curtin/Watson/McKercher all fit our needs a lot better than Duursma, while still being gun players like he is (just in different ways). Idk, I'm not an expert, that's just my impression.

Do they?

Watson, sure we need a small forward, I love him, but there’s pretty clearly a gap between the two based on performances this year. Curtin (let’s leave the fact that Duursma is unanimously rated higher) is a very good prospect as well, but he does not see himself as a key defender long term, he’s told every club that has interviewed him that he wants to be a midfielder. This has been repeated over and over again in here but people choose not to listen. Mckercher will be drafted by North anyway so it’s redundant.

I’m sorry, I just don’t see how we couldn’t use a freak goal kicking forward/mid that is 191 and elite overhead. He could even become an undersized key forward if he fills out. Could become anything as midfielder. Could even go behind the ball in a Sheezel role.

So again, you take best available.

 

[Liam Boy]

Apologies for being direct. It’s just a narrative I’ve seen quite a bit and I just don’t buy it.

Our forward line last year finished with Larkey 71 goals, Stephenson 26 goals, Zurhaar 20 goals, Curtis 17 goals, Ford 12 goals, Thomas 11 goals.

To suggest we do not need someone that is extremely capable of kicking goals & statistically the best goal kicking u18 prospect, is just crazy to me.

we already recruited the best goal kicking u18 prospect last year. we put him at half back.

 

[Bashnek]

Bangers latest mock draft

if Curtin is still there at 8 do we think WC will get silly with future picks to get 8 from melb?

 

[geelongrecruit5]

Bangers latest mock draft

View attachment 1839049

Super effort Bangers

 

[kirbonavich]

we already recruited the best goal kicking u18 prospect last year. we put him at half back.

Yep. If Sheez plays a full time role forward of centre I can't see how he doesn't kick 45ish.

There was a specific round this year, it escapes me which one, but he was up forward. It was scary slick. Really excited to watch him up forward.

 

[danj]

The ghost of Dutch Tilders likes this.

Dutch “no aircon thanks’” Tilders

 

[danj]

Apologies for being direct. It’s just a narrative I’ve seen quite a bit and I just don’t buy it.

Our forward line last year finished with Larkey 71 goals, Stephenson 26 goals, Zurhaar 20 goals, Curtis 17 goals, Ford 12 goals, Thomas 11 goals.

To suggest we do not need someone that is extremely capable of kicking goals & statistically the best goal kicking u18 prospect, is just crazy to me.

Wouldn’t it be statistically more relevant if you showed how many games each of these players played as forwards last season? For example TT and Zurhahaha missed chunks of footy this season. Not saying I disagree just curious about apples with apples

 

[Chadwiko]

I would legitimately be so furious.

 

[ToxicMegaPunts]

Bangers latest mock draft

View attachment 1839049

I'd take that draft haul right now. The only change I might make would be Schoenmaker over Roberts, although I do like Roberts as a prospect. I don't think we could hope for much better come draft night if we sit tight with our current picks. Great work Bangers!

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Bangers latest mock draft

View attachment 1839049

Not going to lie I’d be very disappointed if we didn’t end up with one KP with any of those picks. I’d also be very disappointed if we went with Will Green over Mitch Edwards or Taylor Goad. Green has the least amount of upside compared to the other two.

Collard would be great but is a flight risk.

Good mates with Robert Hansen Jnr. So there would be some support there. If we go with Duursma, I’d be pretty disappointed if we then picked another forward in Collard.

 

[Mav]

View attachment 1839109


I would legitimately be so furious.

Just to be clear, considering your call on Larkey, this has to be the way to go.

 

[RossHenshaw]

Not going to lie I’d be very disappointed if we didn’t end up with one KP with any of those picks. I’d also be very disappointed if we went with Will Green over Mitch Edwards or Taylor Goad. Green has the least amount of upside compared to the other two.




Good mates with Robert Hansen Jnr. So there would be some support there. If we go with Duursma, I’d be pretty disappointed if we then picked another forward in Collard.

Robert Hansen Jnr . Phoenix Spicer MKII …

 

[JGreezy]

Yep. If Sheez plays a full time role forward of centre I can't see how he doesn't kick 45ish.

There was a specific round this year, it escapes me which one, but he was up forward. It was scary slick. Really excited to watch him up forward.

Was it the end of the Sydney match or West Coast? He went forward for both and was nice.

 

[kirbonavich]

Was it the end of the Sydney match or West Coast? He went forward for both and was nice.

Possibly, I just remember scissor kicks and a bullet from the boundary to I think LDU in the guts 20m dead in front.

 

[Fart Cummings]

Im warming right up to Duursma! as long as he ticks all the boxes off field! hes just too classy to pass up!

 

[r_boy]

If Collard is as good as he looks don't worry about the flight risk.

Will get well compensated if it eventuated

Plus we should back ourselves

 

[LB2Snake]

Im warming right up to Duursma! as long as he picks all the boxes off field! hes just too classy to pass up!

Yeah I wasn’t into Durs a couple weeks back but the Burgoyne comparisons are pretty spot on. His skill set and movement are frightening. Looks a complete jet.

 

[JGreezy]

Possibly, I just remember scissor kicks and a bullet from the boundary to I think LDU in the guts 20m dead in front.

Against the Eagles we were 32 down in the 4th and we put Sheezel forward. He dominated and setup LDU with that great centering kick off the outside of his boot. Then he kicked a goal that would have cut it to 1 point but the ump controversially called it a behind.