Traded Luke Jackson [Traded with #44 and #67 to Fremantle for #13, F1 and F2]

[Snuffaluphagus]

Having an elite individual ruck and winning premierships are two very different things.

That's why you don't spend the massive trade and draft capital on the former because it's completely unnecessary to achieve the latter.

I mean yeh he'll probably rack up some B&Fs and AAs, and all that time clubs that have spent their resources in other more critical positions and lines will be having the team success.

I think too many people see there being one or two ways to win a flag, often citing the last team to win one.

• Need an elite forward line (Collingwoods isnt incredible)
• Can’t put too much in rucks (Melbourne recently won one with the best ruck combo in the comp and NicNat played a large role in getting WC to one)
• Need an elite midfield (WC recent win wasn’t world beating)
• Need to rebound and play-on as fast as possible (Geelong don’t go anywhere near as fast as Pies on the rebound).

To win a flag, you need a point of difference, something your better than anyone else at IMO, and everything else has to be very good. You need a good coach and talent across the field that’s on the same page and playing together but there’s one style or area on the ground that has to be prioritised to win

 

[juss]

I think too many people see there being one or two ways to win a flag, often citing the last team to win one.

• Need an elite forward line (Collingwoods isnt incredible)
• Can’t put too much in rucks (Melbourne recently won one with the best ruck combo in the comp and NicNat played a large role in getting WC to one)
• Need an elite midfield (WC recent win wasn’t world beating)
• Need to rebound and play-on as fast as possible (Geelong don’t go anywhere near as fast as Pies on the rebound).

To win a flag, you need a point of difference, something your better than anyone else at IMO, and everything else has to be very good. You need a good coach and talent across the field that’s on the same page and playing together but there’s one style or area on the ground that has to be prioritised to win

I dont take the recent history I take a longer view. Over the last 20 odd years, history shows the elite rucks barely make an impact compared to other almost essential positions of elite mids and defenders.

Nic Nat is the perfect example, Eagles won the flag without him and didn't break a sweat, it made no difference in their flag run when he went out of the side.

Max Gawn is probably the last elite ruck in a flag, but instead of paying up multiple picks for him, I think he cost the dees a second rounder way back when.

The point is, wasting massive draft capital on an elite ruck is pointless when you can get premiership quality rucks for token picks.

Better off spending those assets and salary on other chess pieces.

 

[danster168]

Luke Jackson is an interesting analyst
On paper 5 plus 15 is overs
However I’d take Jackson over Windsor and Jefferson personally.

Goes to show that drafting/ trading isn’t an exact science

of course, everyone would take Jackson over Windsor and Jefferson.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I dont take the recent history I take a longer view. Over the last 20 odd years, history shows the elite rucks barely make an impact compared to other almost essential positions of elite mids and defenders.

Nic Nat is the perfect example, Eagles won the flag without him and didn't break a sweat, it made no difference in their flag run when he went out of the side.

Max Gawn is probably the last elite ruck in a flag, but instead of paying up multiple picks for him, I think he cost the dees a second rounder way back when.

The point is, wasting massive draft capital on an elite ruck is pointless when you can get premiership quality rucks for token picks.

Better off spending those assets and salary on other chess pieces.

I dont think that's accurate, the really good rucks can make a really big difference, there's just fewer of them and only one of them in each team. I suppose I wouldnt go out of my way to trade for one, nor would I use a top 10 pick on one in the draft but they absolutely make a difference having an elite one. Sandi was a massive reason for us making our only GF. Cox, Gawn, Grundy and NicNat all played a large role in making their teams strong in the years they made or won a grand final.

And I know it's been discussed ad nauseum in here but at the moment Jackson really shouldnt be pidgeonholed into a "ruck." Freo in particular dont see him as a ruck. Maybe they are wrong and that's his best position but the intent wasnt to spend that much on a ruck, it was to spend that much on a unique elite talent that can play everywhere. We'll see over his career if they were right.

 

[freo_leo29]

I dont take the recent history I take a longer view. Over the last 20 odd years, history shows the elite rucks barely make an impact compared to other almost essential positions of elite mids and defenders.

Nic Nat is the perfect example, Eagles won the flag without him and didn't break a sweat, it made no difference in their flag run when he went out of the side.

Max Gawn is probably the last elite ruck in a flag, but instead of paying up multiple picks for him, I think he cost the dees a second rounder way back when.

The point is, wasting massive draft capital on an elite ruck is pointless when you can get premiership quality rucks for token picks.

Better off spending those assets and salary on other chess pieces.

Aren't we a team that can afford to "waste" draft capital

We have 8 years of first rounders put into this rebuild, most of those years we had multiple, next year we have another 3 to spend

We have been able to draft players as late as the 50s and turn them into first rounders

If you can grab a player that makes your side better then go for it I say

 

[JackOutback]

I dont take the recent history I take a longer view. Over the last 20 odd years, history shows the elite rucks barely make an impact compared to other almost essential positions of elite mids and defenders.

Nic Nat is the perfect example, Eagles won the flag without him and didn't break a sweat, it made no difference in their flag run when he went out of the side.

Max Gawn is probably the last elite ruck in a flag, but instead of paying up multiple picks for him, I think he cost the dees a second rounder way back when.

The point is, wasting massive draft capital on an elite ruck is pointless when you can get premiership quality rucks for token picks.

Better off spending those assets and salary on other chess pieces.

Spoiler alert, the Eagles broke a sweat. And so did us fans.

 

[danster168]

Probably 4 first rounders if in contract.

He's a generational talent.

You tried to be smart. Yet I was the one who was correct on Jackson this whole time. Apologies accepted

 

[danster168]

I respect your demon views.
But 1 fans hope of what a player will become doesn’t translate to 2 top ten pics.

Jackson needs to prove himself as a fwd before freo would think about selling the farm.
Comparing lobb and Jackson the only thing he has over lobb this year is clearances.
We need goals.
We have a gun rk and and number 2 whose progressing well.
Freo only over spend on trades if it’s a fwd.

What a massive over pay, I’m worried next years first will be a top 10 pick.

Pick 8 and a future 3rd should be enough

Pick 8 and a second could be close to the value?

I can live with 8 and a F2 or worst case scenario 13 and F1 with Melbourne 32/F2 coming back.

Under no circumstances should we trade 8 with another first round pick.

He is not worth pick 3 now in hindsight.

In Dan's world the distant past is more important than current form

I think Rankine will be a better player, full stop.

And Jackson being a ruck makes it worse

Is he a proven performer based on two years ago? His finals performances this year were very poor. How long until we can move on from one gf performance. It's potential. If he was proven he would have maintained or improved on that form all throughout 2022. He didn't.

13 and a future second is all it should cost at worst

Paying overs for 'potential' never works out. Jackson plays 3-4 good games a year, just happened to have one of them in the most important game of his career.

Doesn't have anywhere near the tank of Blicavs

So many freo fans had such a horrible read on Jackson at the time. We wonder why the thread had so many posts. Because Dees fans were the only ones that understood his value and freo fans simply didn't have any idea at just how much he had shown in his time at Melbourne.

It will forever go down as one of the biggest misreads in afl trade history. people saying that Griffin Logue and Lobb were comparable and 'Jackson was potential only', 'just a 2nd ruck'. Horrendous read.

 

[danster168]

Why no mention of his efforts in 2022? Surely his latest year has more relevance to his current worth.

How about his 2023 and 2024 form mate? Happy now? It was so obvious that Jackson was going to be a jet.

 

[danster168]

But it's not. Even if Logue is #14 then the added pick of #17 makes Jackson.

Not pushing values out more and more to be more offended.

Lobb's value is a top ten pick as he is contracted if Freo feel like that is the appropriate value, he has been a top ten tall forward this season based off rankings.

Draft picks are over rated though. You won't build a star team off trading away all your stars, you always get less value than that which you drafted them in situations like this.

You thought Griffin Logue and Pick 20 = Luke Jackson. Beyond frustrating to have to listen to this stuff all trade period.

 

[danster168]

Ok so question to Freo fans, when Darcy comes back and Jackson becomes '2nd ruck' as he was behind Gawn, can I call Jackson a '2nd ruck' and say that he's only with 2 late first rounders? Is that how it works?

 

[Tony_Clifton]

How about his 2023 and 2024 form mate? Happy now? It was so obvious that Jackson was going to be a jet.

Maybe the footygods were looking after you with our 2023 ladder position. Caleb Windsor catches the eye. How's Jefferson going?

Happy now? Yes


I was firmly against trading for Jackson as investing far and away the most cap space in rucks seems like a risky move.

 

[Taylor]

Ok so question to Freo fans, when Darcy comes back and Jackson becomes '2nd ruck' as he was behind Gawn, can I call Jackson a '2nd ruck' and say that he's only with 2 late first rounders? Is that how it works?

Yeah, that's exactly how it works. You can say what you like as you watch him dominate in purple.

Hopefully it works out for everyone.

 

[danster168]

Maybe the footygods were looking after you with our 2023 ladder position. Caleb Windsor catches the eye. How's Jefferson going?

Happy now? Yes
View attachment 1939869

why would I be happy? Jackson was worth 3 first rounders including one in the top 5. Not the poor picks that we got.
Windsor ain't no Jackson. I'm just keeping people accountable for getting their read on Jackson so bad at the time. So even though he's basically your best player now (alongside Serong), it comes with the understanding that most of your supporter base didn't rate him at his true worth that I (and demons fans) knew at the time. People should really watch other teams players more closely before commenting on trade value.

 

[danster168]

Yeah, that's exactly how it works. You can say what you like as you watch him dominate in purple.

Hopefully it works out for everyone.

Logue and Pick 20..how are they working out.

Own your misread.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

why would I be happy? Jackson was worth 3 first rounders including one in the top 5. Not the poor picks that we got.
Windsor ain't no Jackson. I'm just keeping people accountable for getting their read on Jackson so bad at the time. So even though he's basically your best player now (alongside Serong), it comes with the understanding that most of your supporter base didn't rate him at his true worth that I (and demons fans) knew at the time. People should really watch other teams players more closely before commenting on trade value.

I think I wasn't clear in my post. I wasn't asking if you were happy now. I was answering your question to whether I am happy now.

 

[danster168]

I think I wasn't clear in my post. I wasn't asking if you were happy now. I was answering your question to whether I am happy now.

So hypothetically Jackson wanted to go to another club what would you want for this '2nd ruck'

 

[Taylor]

Logue and Pick 20..how are they working out.

Own your misread.

Like how you quoted a post and then talked about a totally different number in it?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

why would I be happy? Jackson was worth 3 first rounders including one in the top 5. Not the poor picks that we got.
Windsor ain't no Jackson. I'm just keeping people accountable for getting their read on Jackson so bad at the time. So even though he's basically your best player now (alongside Serong), it comes with the understanding that most of your supporter base didn't rate him at his true worth that I (and demons fans) knew at the time. People should really watch other teams players more closely before commenting on trade value.

Freo fans on here watch a lot of other teams, they were watching Jackson every week and formed their opinion based on 2022 form. It was reasonable, there were neutrals saying similar. Freo posters were sick of overpaying for players and getting nothing in return (particularly with your club).

I will say you were right about his ability, wrong about the trade. Frankly, Dee's got as much as humanly possible out of Freo and I think you are "lucky" of the clubs he chose, he chose Freo. Several other clubs would have paid less. It sounds weird, but clearly Freo are going to come out ahead in the trade but we still paid more than most would, Jackson is just that level of talent

 

[Tony_Clifton]

So hypothetically Jackson wanted to go to another club what would you want for this '2nd ruck'

I have been shown to be a terrible judge of talent so would probably defer to others with a past history of being proven right. That'd be three first rounders with one being in the top 5.

Edit: dan, is this making you happy or just more angry because I'm trying to be reasonable with you but it seems you like playing the insufferable martyr

 

[danster168]

Freo fans on here watch a lot of other teams, they were watching Jackson every week and formed their opinion based on 2022 form. It was reasonable, there were neutrals saying similar. Freo posters were sick of overpaying for players and getting nothing in return (particularly with your club).

I will say you were right about his ability, wrong about the trade. Frankly, Dee's got as much as humanly possible out of Freo and I think you are "lucky" of the clubs he chose, he chose Freo. Several other clubs would have paid less. It sounds weird, but clearly Freo are going to come out ahead in the trade but we still paid more than most would, Jackson is just that level of talent

I hear you. But I was called a troll for saying that I believed Jackson was worth every bit of Brayshaw and Serong. I think I even got a weeks ban because I said I thought he was already better than Darcy. Within 1 season, my thoughts on Jackson was all completely justified and I had to put up with Lobb and Griffin Logue nonsense talk. I think some guy said that Melbourne should throw in Van Rooyen AS A SWEETENER! Freo fans suggesting they shouldn't trade a top 10 for him was damn triggering. Thankfully, Freo had a poor year and a sceric of Jacksons compensation was earned back but I knew all along that I was right and I had to put up with so much belittling of Jackson.

When/if Van Rooyen or McVee wants to go back to W.A, I will tell you his worth and people should just listen because freo fans lost all credibility with the Jackson worth conversations. And if I'm Tim Lamb I'm saying the same thing to the freo team at the next trade meeting.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

I wouldn't part with too much for van Rooyen. He was overhyped last year in a team that gets a heap of media coverage. Might have 10 minute good patch in him every second game. Thank god we chose Amiss over him.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I hear you. But I was called a troll for saying that I believed Jackson was worth every bit of Brayshaw and Serong. I think I even got a weeks ban because I said I thought he was already better than Darcy. Within 1 season, my thoughts on Jackson was all completely justified and I had to put up with Lobb and Griffin Logue nonsense talk. I think some guy said that Melbourne should throw in Van Rooyen AS A SWEETENER! Freo fans suggesting they shouldn't trade a top 10 for him was damn triggering. Thankfully, Freo had a poor year and a sceric of Jacksons compensation was earned back but I knew all along that I was right and I had to put up with so much belittling of Jackson.

When/if Van Rooyen or McVee wants to go back to W.A, I will tell you his worth and people should just listen because freo fans lost all credibility with the Jackson worth conversations. And if I'm Tim Lamb I'm saying the same thing to the freo team at the next trade meeting.

But like, half of that is still rubbish and equally bad as any call for JVR to be included.

Do you mean worth Brayshaw AND Serong or worth the same as either those would be worth because those are different things and I'm not quite sure what you mean. If it's the former I obviously think that's insane but if it's the latter I would be pretty confident I agreed with you back then but the same thing applied, out of contract and what Freo had to work with is what we had (plus historical trades).

He clearly wasnt already better than Darcy and you and I both know it's not as simple as that as to why you would have been banned.

Finally, posters are going to have different opinions on players ability and you are quite well known for having some outrageous opinions, take the win, have a gloat and build a bridge

 

[danster168]

But like, half of that is still rubbish and equally bad as any call for JVR to be included.

Do you mean worth Brayshaw AND Serong or worth the same as either those would be worth because those are different things and I'm not quite sure what you mean. If it's the former I obviously think that's insane but if it's the latter I would be pretty confident I agreed with you back then but the same thing applied, out of contract and what Freo had to work with is what we had (plus historical trades).

He clearly wasnt already better than Darcy and you and I both know it's not as simple as that as to why you would have been banned.

Finally, posters are going to have different opinions on players ability and you are quite well known for having some outrageous opinions, take the win, have a gloat and build a bridge

Nah I meant Brayshaw or Serong. I rated Jackson as high as any of them at the time of trade. And I'm guessing should either of those guys been up for trade then you wouldn't be happy with pick 2 late firsts and a 2nd round pick. Admittedly became pick 7 but the fall of freo was unexpected by all I think we can all admit.

I agree that all people are going to have different opinions. But getting called a troll for having opinions that turned out to be justified is pretty frustrating. Nonetheless, enjoy Jackson. It's good to see him play as well as he did at melbourne when he was solo rucking

Anyway, is there any freo/dees players that will be traded any time soon?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Nah I meant Brayshaw or Serong. I rated Jackson as high as any of them at the time of trade. And I'm guessing should either of those guys been up for trade then you wouldn't be happy with pick 2 late firsts and a 2nd round pick. Admittedly became pick 7 but the fall of freo was unexpected by all I think we can all admit.

I agree that all people are going to have different opinions. But getting called a troll for having opinions that turned out to be justified is pretty frustrating. Nonetheless, enjoy Jackson. It's good to see him play as well as he did at melbourne when he was solo rucking

Anyway, is there any freo/dees players that will be traded any time soon?

You're still missing it a bit, there is a difference between what a player is worth and what they can be traded for. I would not have been losing Serong or Brayshaw for what you got for Jackson because you cant get proper compensation for those players, I would have thought though that the deal was as good as possible.

You get called a troll because as indicated by this thread, you have a habit of spamming posts and sometimes missing the point a bit.

I think with Freo wanting McDonald, we are thankfully going to be spared from round 4 of the Freo/Melbourne trade saga for now