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St Kilda President Andrew Bassat tees off on the AFL draft system, specifically father/son and the Northern Academies

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LordLucifer said:
But it is not our president who is sooking up now.

We have had our basketcase years and are now way closer to saluting than your mob will ever be.
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debatable
 

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I think a lot of Saints fans are missing some key points here.

What your president said about the F/S rules and the FA compo etc was extremely valid, the vast majority of footy fans do not like the flimsy way they are structured and adjudicated.

The irony being that a week after the public whinge, the Saints are given a first round pick for Battle's FA move. Whilst I am not suggesting they should knock back that deal, it does seem rather hypocritical to be slagging off the system one week and then taking everything with open arms the next.

Today we have King being given a 6-year contract extension on the basis of a rather chequered output across his career thus far, there was no need to extend it because he was already under contract. The best thing the Saints people could have done was given King a "smackdown" and told him to lift his game otherwise he may be traded next year.

This huge contract now makes him virtually untradeable too because no other club would go near him on that crazy money. If King does not fully graduate (and on current form, there is every possibility of that happening), then the Saints are stuck with an under-performing player on huge money that they will not be able to trade unless they absorb $300K-$400K of that salary every year. Again, that would be a really bad situation to find yourselves in.

Someone posted the stats on how many games theSaints win with him in and out of the team, it is not good reading either.

Rewarding a player in such a manner (i.e. big money & big contract) when there has not been the onfield output to deserve it is going to come back and bite them on the clack. Can you imagine what some of the up & coming players like Phillipou & Caminiti will be thinking now ??

"Hey, I have been a way better player and given you way better service than him, I want that sort of money now too".

No-one would begrudge those guys for asking for a huge payrise because quite clearly, onfield they have earnt it .......... King hasn't earnt a thing !!

So this comes back to my point about creating a good club culture, rewarding poor performance is going to have an adverse effect on that with the potential to derail any real progress within the club.

If you continually make bad, poor or shortsighted business decisions, how are you ever going to break the cycle you are always in ??
 
LordLucifer said:
I think a lot of Saints fans are missing some key points here.

What your president said about the F/S rules and the FA compo etc was extremely valid, the vast majority of footy fans do not like the flimsy way they are structured and adjudicated.

The irony being that a week after the public whinge, the Saints are given a first round pick for Battle's FA move. Whilst I am not suggesting they should knock back that deal, it does seem rather hypocritical to be slagging off the system one week and then taking everything with open arms the next.

Today we have King being given a 6-year contract extension on the basis of a rather chequered output across his career thus far, there was no need to extend it because he was already under contract. The best thing the Saints people could have done was given King a "smackdown" and told him to lift his game otherwise he may be traded next year.

This huge contract now makes him virtually untradeable too because no other club would go near him on that crazy money. If King does not fully graduate (and on current form, there is every possibility of that happening), then the Saints are stuck with an under-performing player on huge money that they will not be able to trade unless they absorb $300K-$400K of that salary every year. Again, that would be a really bad situation to find yourselves in.

Someone posted the stats on how many games theSaints win with him in and out of the team, it is not good reading either.

Rewarding a player in such a manner (i.e. big money & big contract) when there has not been the onfield output to deserve it is going to come back and bite them on the clack. Can you imagine what some of the up & coming players like Phillipou & Caminiti will be thinking now ??

"Hey, I have been a way better player and given you way better service than him, I want that sort of money now too".

No-one would begrudge those guys for asking for a huge payrise because quite clearly, onfield they have earnt it .......... King hasn't earnt a thing !!

So this comes back to my point about creating a good club culture, rewarding poor performance is going to have an adverse effect on that with the potential to derail any real progress within the club.

If you continually make bad, poor or shortsighted business decisions, how are you ever going to break the cycle you are always in ??
Click to expand...

Amazing reading. Shame all is just trash.
 
Present Not Past said:
When Carlton play in consecutive grand finals, then you can consider them on par with St Kilda.
Click to expand...

On a par ??

You have been in the competition since 1897 yet have bugger all to show for it.

Playing in a couple of losing grand finals is all St. Kilda have to brag about, goddam laughing stock of the competition.
 
LordLucifer said:
I think a lot of Saints fans are missing some key points here.

What your president said about the F/S rules and the FA compo etc was extremely valid, the vast majority of footy fans do not like the flimsy way they are structured and adjudicated.

The irony being that a week after the public whinge, the Saints are given a first round pick for Battle's FA move. Whilst I am not suggesting they should knock back that deal, it does seem rather hypocritical to be slagging off the system one week and then taking everything with open arms the next.
Click to expand...
For the thousandth time, FA compensation is not the problem. How thick do you need to be to have not understood this by now?

LordLucifer said:
Today we have King being given a 6-year contract extension on the basis of a rather chequered output across his career thus far, there was no need to extend it because he was already under contract. The best thing the Saints people could have done was given King a "smackdown" and told him to lift his game otherwise he may be traded next year.

This huge contract now makes him virtually untradeable too because no other club would go near him on that crazy money. If King does not fully graduate (and on current form, there is every possibility of that happening), then the Saints are stuck with an under-performing player on huge money that they will not be able to trade unless they absorb $300K-$400K of that salary every year. Again, that would be a really bad situation to find yourselves in.

Someone posted the stats on how many games theSaints win with him in and out of the team, it is not good reading either.

Rewarding a player in such a manner (i.e. big money & big contract) when there has not been the onfield output to deserve it is going to come back and bite them on the clack. Can you imagine what some of the up & coming players like Phillipou & Caminiti will be thinking now ??

"Hey, I have been a way better player and given you way better service than him, I want that sort of money now too".

No-one would begrudge those guys for asking for a huge payrise because quite clearly, onfield they have earnt it .......... King hasn't earnt a thing !!

So this comes back to my point about creating a good club culture, rewarding poor performance is going to have an adverse effect on that with the potential to derail any real progress within the club.

If you continually make bad, poor or shortsighted business decisions, how are you ever going to break the cycle you are always in ??
Click to expand...
It's almost like key forwards take time. Curnow didn't do anything until his 7th season.

LordLucifer said:
Win a second premiership. :peace:
Click to expand...
Since Carlton weren't allowed to cheat anymore, they've been the worst performing team in the competition. But please, continue enjoying your glorious premierships from when the Ottoman Empire still existed.
 
Silkie said:
For the thousandth time, FA compensation is not the problem. How thick do you need to be to have not understood this by now?


It's almost like key forwards take time. Curnow didn't do anything until his 7th season.


Since Carlton weren't allowed to cheat anymore, they've been the worst performing team in the competition. But please, continue enjoying your glorious premierships from when the Ottoman Empire still existed.
Click to expand...

(a) FA compensation is a major part of the problem even if you don't think it is, every club after the compo pick gets penalised in the draft order even though they have done nothing wrong - its rubbish !!

(b) Curnow was out injured for two years with an orthopaedic bungle, as for key forwards taking time, King was drafted in 2018 so its not like he hasn't had ample time to find some consistent evidence of his application & ability

(c) your mob saluted for the one & only time in 1966, since then, the Ottoman Empire have saluted a mere eight (8) times which is something you can only dream about, I understand your envy
 
LordLucifer said:
I think a lot of Saints fans are missing some key points here.

What your president said about the F/S rules and the FA compo etc was extremely valid, the vast majority of footy fans do not like the flimsy way they are structured and adjudicated.

The irony being that a week after the public whinge, the Saints are given a first round pick for Battle's FA move. Whilst I am not suggesting they should knock back that deal, it does seem rather hypocritical to be slagging off the system one week and then taking everything with open arms the next.

Today we have King being given a 6-year contract extension on the basis of a rather chequered output across his career thus far, there was no need to extend it because he was already under contract. The best thing the Saints people could have done was given King a "smackdown" and told him to lift his game otherwise he may be traded next year.

This huge contract now makes him virtually untradeable too because no other club would go near him on that crazy money. If King does not fully graduate (and on current form, there is every possibility of that happening), then the Saints are stuck with an under-performing player on huge money that they will not be able to trade unless they absorb $300K-$400K of that salary every year. Again, that would be a really bad situation to find yourselves in.

Someone posted the stats on how many games theSaints win with him in and out of the team, it is not good reading either.

Rewarding a player in such a manner (i.e. big money & big contract) when there has not been the onfield output to deserve it is going to come back and bite them on the clack. Can you imagine what some of the up & coming players like Phillipou & Caminiti will be thinking now ??

"Hey, I have been a way better player and given you way better service than him, I want that sort of money now too".

No-one would begrudge those guys for asking for a huge payrise because quite clearly, onfield they have earnt it .......... King hasn't earnt a thing !!

So this comes back to my point about creating a good club culture, rewarding poor performance is going to have an adverse effect on that with the potential to derail any real progress within the club.

If you continually make bad, poor or shortsighted business decisions, how are you ever going to break the cycle you are always in ??
Click to expand...
irony, we've watched club after club take F/S, Academy/NGA, and FA, quite often affecting the players we've had to choose from (as most clubs), and watched our highly rated NGA player (McKenzie) go to another club whilst, your own club campaigned against rule changes being introduced this year because of self-interest, you only have to see how many Lions fans are arguing to realise self-interest rules this issue. But little ole St Kilda gets a small over-compensation and now we are being hypocritical because of it, give me a break.
I notice you never mentioned Perryman or Cumming, Band 1 and Band 2 same result, the only difference is they made finals and we didn't. Like most, it's the outrage because it's St Kilda and quite frankly Saints fans could not give a hoot what others think, McKay with Pick 3 last year got 1/2 the ire we are copping.

I mean we did lose a player another club is paying a minimum $850x6 and came 3rd in the B&F, even you wouldn't be happy if any of your top 10 B&F players left on the same coin with a pick in the 20's+

the Max King tirade has nothing to do with compensation AT ALL, says NOTHING about culture or any of the other drivel you sprouted, and everything about how ridiculous the salary cap floor is that a club low on the ladder has to seriously overpay players to meet it.

Carlton made shizen decisions for 20 years, the difference is St Kilda didn't get handed $2 million, didn't get handed the season-opening game, and didn't get handed 8 Friday night games for finishing last for a wooden spoon.
 
Mat Mann said:
irony, we've watched club after club take F/S, Academy/NGA, and FA, quite often affecting the players we've had to choose from (as most clubs), and watched our highly rated NGA player (McKenzie) go to another club whilst, your own club campaigned against rule changes being introduced this year because of self-interest, you only have to see how many Lions fans are arguing to realise self-interest rules this issue. But little ole St Kilda gets a small over-compensation and now we are being hypocritical because of it, give me a break.
I notice you never mentioned Perryman or Cumming, Band 1 and Band 2 same result, the only difference is they made finals and we didn't. Like most, it's the outrage because it's St Kilda and quite frankly Saints fans could not give a hoot what others think, McKay with Pick 3 last year got 1/2 the ire we are copping.

I mean we did lose a player another club is paying a minimum $850x6 and came 3rd in the B&F, even you wouldn't be happy if any of your top 10 B&F players left on the same coin with a pick in the 20's+

the Max King tirade has nothing to do with compensation AT ALL, says NOTHING about culture or any of the other drivel you sprouted, and everything about how ridiculous the salary cap floor is that a club low on the ladder has to seriously overpay players to meet it.

Carlton made shizen decisions for 20 years, the difference is St Kilda didn't get handed $2 million, didn't get handed the season-opening game, and didn't get handed 8 Friday night games for finishing last for a wooden spoon.
Click to expand...

I'm not picking on the Saints purely because they got a good deal for Battle leaving, its the bloody system that is wrong. I just found it rather ironic that your Pres got on his soapbox and had a big sook about that (and a range of things around the draft) and then .... nek minnut.

FA compo should be scrapped, not applied through a secret herbs & spices formula, every goddam year they hand out a grossly inflated pick for a player that is not worth that much.

You are right, the McKay pick last year was a farce and reinforces my view that the FA compo should be scrapped.

Your club can hand out inflated contracts all they like, you have to deal with them when they go pear-shaped. If that happened at the Blues, I'd be livid. Quite clearly, you and all your nuffie Saints mates don't understand club culture because you have never had one.

Yes, I know you will cite McKay & Curnow for the length of their contracts (which I don't fully agree with) but they are both Coleman medallists, they have some runs on the board.

St Kilda didn't get handed $2 million ?? FMD .............. I'll go and look up some numbers and get back to you on that.

Opening round ?? See, that's what happens when you get your ship in order, once again, you Saints nimrods are looking at everything from the wrong end.
 

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LordLucifer said:
I'm not picking on the Saints purely because they got a good deal for Battle leaving, its the bloody system that is wrong. I just found it rather ironic that your Pres got on his soapbox and had a big sook about that (and a range of things around the draft) and then .... nek minnut.

FA compo should be scrapped, not applied through a secret herbs & spices formula, every goddam year they hand out a grossly inflated pick for a player that is not worth that much.

You are right, the McKay pick last year was a farce and reinforces my view that the FA compo should be scrapped.

Your club can hand out inflated contracts all they like, you have to deal with them when they go pear-shaped. If that happened at the Blues, I'd be livid. Quite clearly, you and all your nuffie Saints mates don't understand club culture because you have never had one.

Yes, I know you will cite McKay & Curnow for the length of their contracts (which I don't fully agree with) but they are both Coleman medallists, they have some runs on the board.

St Kilda didn't get handed $2 million ?? FMD .............. I'll go and look up some numbers and get back to you on that.

Opening round ?? See, that's what happens when you get your ship in order, once again, you Saints nimrods are looking at everything from the wrong end.
Click to expand...

Carlton getting their ship in order? And you expect people to take you seriously 🤣 was it not long ago half their fan base were threatening to throw in their membership
 
LordLucifer said:
I'm not picking on the Saints purely because they got a good deal for Battle leaving, its the bloody system that is wrong. I just found it rather ironic that your Pres got on his soapbox and had a big sook about that (and a range of things around the draft) and then .... nek minnut.

FA compo should be scrapped, not applied through a secret herbs & spices formula, every goddam year they hand out a grossly inflated pick for a player that is not worth that much.

You are right, the McKay pick last year was a farce and reinforces my view that the FA compo should be scrapped.

Your club can hand out inflated contracts all they like, you have to deal with them when they go pear-shaped. If that happened at the Blues, I'd be livid. Quite clearly, you and all your nuffie Saints mates don't understand club culture because you have never had one.

Yes, I know you will cite McKay & Curnow for the length of their contracts (which I don't fully agree with) but they are both Coleman medallists, they have some runs on the board.

St Kilda didn't get handed $2 million ?? FMD .............. I'll go and look up some numbers and get back to you on that.

Opening round ?? See, that's what happens when you get your ship in order, once again, you Saints nimrods are looking at everything from the wrong end.
Click to expand...
ah found it
www.abc.net.au

AFL to lend Carlton a hand

The AFL says it will do everything possible to help Carlton recover from its current financial plight.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
$2Mill that the Bloos never paid back, on top of cash advances to keep the club afloat
www.theage.com.au

Blues receive five-figure cash advance from AFL

Carlton's tight finances compelled the club to receive AFL assistance in February, with the Blues having received a five figure advance from their annual AFL distribution.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

Didn't you pay Martin over $1m?
and don't bother with the annual distributions until you can break down the numbers and tell me the "handout" portion

ship together!!

haha we played in the 4 previous season-opening games, but didn't host a single one
Blues finished last 2006
2007 - opening round
2007 season, blues 2nd last Richmond last
2008 - Opening round and on and on for a decade

and look, I didn't have to resort to calling you names or insulting your fan base.

I have no issue saying my club has been poor the last 10 years, but pretending Carlton got themselves out of their salary cap plight without AFL assistance is hogwash and deserved the raft of very favorable fixtures on merit is pure fantasy
 
beside the seaside said:
A bit rich considering that joke of a deal you did with Gold Coast a few years back. Burned the pick but that's beside the point.
Click to expand...
If clubs get themselves into cap danger and need to shed weight to avoid sanctions that is 1. Their own fault and 2. Someone else is going to benefit.

Not sure how that is a bit "rich". Bassat's whinging was misplaced to begin with. Father Sons... Really???

I can cop the academies as a gripe. 14/18 don't have one of them.
 

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Mat Mann said:
ah found it
www.abc.net.au

AFL to lend Carlton a hand

The AFL says it will do everything possible to help Carlton recover from its current financial plight.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
$2Mill that the Bloos never paid back, on top of cash advances to keep the club afloat
www.theage.com.au

Blues receive five-figure cash advance from AFL

Carlton's tight finances compelled the club to receive AFL assistance in February, with the Blues having received a five figure advance from their annual AFL distribution.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

Didn't you pay Martin over $1m?
and don't bother with the annual distributions until you can break down the numbers and tell me the "handout" portion

ship together!!

haha we played in the 4 previous season-opening games, but didn't host a single one
Blues finished last 2006
2007 - opening round
2007 season, blues 2nd last Richmond last
2008 - Opening round and on and on for a decade

and look, I didn't have to resort to calling you names or insulting your fan base.

I have no issue saying my club has been poor the last 10 years, but pretending Carlton got themselves out of their salary cap plight without AFL assistance is hogwash and deserved the raft of very favorable fixtures on merit is pure fantasy
Click to expand...

There's an old saying ..... never argue with an idiot as they will just lower you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Martin's contract was heavily front-loaded which resulted in him getting around 70% of his money in the first two years.
 
LordLucifer said:
(a) FA compensation is a major part of the problem even if you don't think it is, every club after the compo pick gets penalised in the draft order even though they have done nothing wrong - its rubbish !!

(b) Curnow was out injured for two years with an orthopaedic bungle, as for key forwards taking time, King was drafted in 2018 so its not like he hasn't had ample time to find some consistent evidence of his application & ability

(c) your mob saluted for the one & only time in 1966, since then, the Ottoman Empire have saluted a mere eight (8) times which is something you can only dream about, I understand your envy
Click to expand...
(a) Certainly flawed yes, but still an equalisation measure that is doing its job, if not a bit overzealously.

(b) And Max hasn't dealt with injuries too? In the seasons where he's been fit, he's shown more than Curnow did at the same point in his career. No doubt the jury is still out, but coming after the big contract is dumb. I bet you would've criticised the club if we'd let him go somehwere else too.

(c) You know the Ottoman Empire doesn't exist anymore right? And hasn't for a veeerry long time. Much like Carlton's glory days... You (and everyone else) use 1966 as a weapon against us, without realising that Saints fans don't actually GAF. It was 60 years ago, no one's hanging their hat on it like you seem to think. Or like you do with premierships from 40 years ago. We've been shit forever but at least we know it. Your lot has been shit forever and can't accept it. Most delusional club in the league.
 

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