Bigman’s Training Reports

[Kane McGoodwin]

As long as the bloke he crashed into feels worse, that's fine.

They usually did... problem was it used to be regularly a team mate.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Milera, Smith, Borlase and Murphy

Over Draper, Worrell, Hinge and Curtin types ?

Bit surprising, but not gonna read much into it, maybe to keep a few on edge and a few still with confidence that they are in the mix, when in fact maybe they arent without injury

Nothing in it.

We do it to try out different matchups.

 

[cmndstab]

Milera, Smith, Borlase and Murphy

Over Draper, Worrell, Hinge and Curtin types ?

Bit surprising, but not gonna read much into it, maybe to keep a few on edge and a few still with confidence that they are in the mix, when in fact maybe they arent without injury

The concern is that we have a long history of opting to play mediocre experience players over giving promising newer players a try.

There's no point throwing our toys out of the cot until the season starts, but based on past history, I'd be very surprised if at least one of Smith or Murphy isn't in the round 1 AFL side while a promising young talent plays SANFL.

Nothing in it.

We do it to try out different matchups.

I feel like we have this discussion every year. And every year we say "don't read too much into it, the club is just trying things out, it will be different once the round 1 side gets named". And every year, we're ultimately disappointed.

The club has significant form in this regard. All summer long last year we said, surely they're not leaving Pedlar out? Surely Nankervis plays round 1? Surely they're not really viewing Curtin as a key defender? Etc, etc. And in pretty much every case, what the club chose to do at training aligned perfectly with what they chose to do when the real thing started.

 

[Cromulant]

The concern is that we have a long history of opting to play mediocre experience players over giving promising newer players a try.

There's no point throwing our toys out of the cot until the season starts, but based on past history, I'd be very surprised if at least one of Smith or Murphy isn't in the round 1 AFL side while a promising young talent plays SANFL.



I feel like we have this discussion every year. And every year we say "don't read too much into it, the club is just trying things out, it will be different once the round 1 side gets named". And every year, we're ultimately disappointed.

The club has significant form in this regard. All summer long last year we said, surely they're not leaving Pedlar out? Surely Nankervis plays round 1? Surely they're not really viewing Curtin as a key defender? Etc, etc. And in pretty much every case, what the club chose to do at training aligned perfectly with what they chose to do when the real thing started.

Well 3 of those guys were already in the side.

 

[Slime Roy]

They usually did... problem was it used to be regularly a team mate.

Where's the problem?
As I learned from Cleanhands over the weekend It's not supposed to be a friendly environment out there,
it's called playing hard.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The concern is that we have a long history of opting to play mediocre experience players over giving promising newer players a try.

There's no point throwing our toys out of the cot until the season starts, but based on past history, I'd be very surprised if at least one of Smith or Murphy isn't in the round 1 AFL side while a promising young talent plays SANFL.



I feel like we have this discussion every year. And every year we say "don't read too much into it, the club is just trying things out, it will be different once the round 1 side gets named". And every year, we're ultimately disappointed.

The club has significant form in this regard. All summer long last year we said, surely they're not leaving Pedlar out? Surely Nankervis plays round 1? Surely they're not really viewing Curtin as a key defender? Etc, etc. And in pretty much every case, what the club chose to do at training aligned perfectly with what they chose to do when the real thing started.

It took a while but welcome to the Broken Hearted Supporter Club!

 

[cleanhands]

Where's the problem?
As I learned from Cleanhands over the weekend It's not supposed to be a friendly environment out there,
it's called playing hard.

That discussion was to do with on the training track, you were talking about deliberately taking teammates out at training

 

[Slime Roy]

That discussion was to do with on the training track, you were talking about deliberately taking teammates out at training

In season actually.
(if you'd read the thread)

 

[cleanhands]

In season actually.
(if you'd read the thread)

I’m referencing to training and match sim as some were referring, are you happy train like flower petals

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Where's the problem?
As I learned from Cleanhands over the weekend It's not supposed to be a friendly environment out there,
it's called playing hard.

Are you still going on this...

 

[cleanhands]

Are you still going on this...

 

[Big Dub]

The concern is that we have a long history of opting to play mediocre experience players over giving promising newer players a try.

There's no point throwing our toys out of the cot until the season starts, but based on past history, I'd be very surprised if at least one of Smith or Murphy isn't in the round 1 AFL side while a promising young talent plays SANFL.



I feel like we have this discussion every year. And every year we say "don't read too much into it, the club is just trying things out, it will be different once the round 1 side gets named". And every year, we're ultimately disappointed.

The club has significant form in this regard. All summer long last year we said, surely they're not leaving Pedlar out? Surely Nankervis plays round 1? Surely they're not really viewing Curtin as a key defender? Etc, etc. And in pretty much every case, what the club chose to do at training aligned perfectly with what they chose to do when the real thing started.

Every club that won a premiership after a rebuild also had this type of form/ history.

While we typically think that playing more of the ralented kids will lead to a flag, history doesn't bear this out.

We need to play our best side if we are serious about building to a premietship.

That said, Smith wasn't best 22 last year and I'm hopefull that our offseason has also forced out Murphy. But I'm not fussed it it also forced out Nank, as much as i like him, as it means we have a better team.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Every club that won a premiership after a rebuild also had this type of form/ history.

While we typically think that playing more of the ralented kids will lead to a flag, history doesn't bear this out.

We need to play our best side if we are serious about building to a premietship.

That said, Smith wasn't best 22 last year and I'm hopefull that our offseason has also forced out Murphy. But I'm not fussed it it also forced out Nank, as much as i like him, as it means we have a better team.

But that's the entire point.

We don't play our best team, as you've noted. We pick injured players, we pick out of form players, we pick players we've already decided to delist at the end of the year, we pick players who finish outside of the top 22 of our own B&F in votes per game, we go tall in wet night games, we play a small defence under the dome against a tall forward line.

We have a baffling attraction to certain players.

 

[Gtowncrow]

But that's the entire point.

We don't play our best team, as you've noted. We pick injured players, we pick out of form players, we pick players we've already decided to delist at the end of the year, we pick players who finish outside of the top 22 of our own B&F in votes per game, we go tall in wet night games, we play a small defence under the dome against a tall forward line.

We have a baffling attraction to certain players.

You refer to "we". I understand you mean us as a club but does anyone here actually know how the selections are made each week? Who makes the final decision the hard decisions? Is it "we"? Ultimately, there's a final decider. There is in every organisation. Is it the coach, or Roo, or the captain?

We've discussed this many times and there have been a myriad of opinions. But does anyone here actually KNOW the answers to this.

I agree with your point fully. And like all of us, we're sick of the BS which is our selections. Who is responsible?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You refer to "we". I understand you mean us as a club but does anyone here actually know how the selections are made each week? Who makes the final decision the hard decisions? Is it "we"? Ultimately, there's a final decider. There is in every organisation. Is it the coach, or Roo, or the captain?

We've discussed this many times and there have been a myriad of opinions. But does anyone here actually KNOW the answers to this.

I agree with your point fully. And like all of us, we're sick of the BS which is our selections. Who is responsible?

There's a selection panel made up of the senior coaches and head of football.

So Nicks, Burns, Van Berlo, Hombsch and Kelly. Where the balance of power lies...?

 

[cleanhands]

There's a selection panel made up of the senior coaches and head of football.

So Nicks, Burns, Van Berlo, Hombsch and Kelly. Where the balance of power lies...?

 

[Flip Side]

But that's the entire point.

We don't play our best team, as you've noted. We pick injured players, we pick out of form players, we pick players we've already decided to delist at the end of the year, we pick players who finish outside of the top 22 of our own B&F in votes per game, we go tall in wet night games, we play a small defence under the dome against a tall forward line.

We have a baffling attraction to certain players.

The picking of players that they trade, delist or retire at season end is all kinds of baffling. It’s almost like they surprise themselves with list decisions.

 

[spenze]

Does Murphy crashing into our talls up forward and creating a spill count as a spoil?

Anything Murphy does spoils the work of those further up the ground

 

[Big Dub]

But that's the entire point.

We don't play our best team, as you've noted. We pick injured players, we pick out of form players, we pick players we've already decided to delist at the end of the year, we pick players who finish outside of the top 22 of our own B&F in votes per game, we go tall in wet night games, we play a small defence under the dome against a tall forward line.

We have a baffling attraction to certain players.

I'm ok with giving quality out of form players 2 or 3 weeks to find form, or fringe keepers/ delisted a dead rubber or two. You could end up with a better season/ list than you otherwise might.

But if you were going to risk playing an injured player, they had better be a fair bit better injured than the uninjured replacement is uninjured. And yeah, I know we are on the wrong side of that equation too often.

 

[cmndstab]

It took a while but welcome to the Broken Hearted Supporter Club!

I was already there last preseason. I felt like I was going insane last summer, when I would post on here "uh guys, I think the club sees Pedlar as a fringe player??" and almost every response was either shouting me down, or even more bizarrely, accusing me of being a Pedlar-hater myself. Pedlar was probably my favourite player in 2023 and I was really disappointed to see him fall out of favour, and then have a terrible year in 2024.

I'm not even saying that what the club is doing is a bad strategy in its own right. I am fully on board with the club making decisions at this point in the preseason, and backing themselves in. The problem is that their decisions, by and large, suck - and worse, they refuse to learn from watching them repeatedly fail. We've seen the club repeatedly back in players at the expense of obviously better options, only to delist them at the end of the season, and then use the remaining players' lack of experience as a reason to overlook them again.

 

[George CantStandYa]

I was already there last preseason. I felt like I was going insane last summer, when I would post on here "uh guys, I think the club sees Pedlar as a fringe player??" and almost every response was either shouting me down, or even more bizarrely, accusing me of being a Pedlar-hater myself. Pedlar was probably my favourite player in 2023 and I was really disappointed to see him fall out of favour, and then have a terrible year in 2024.

I'm not even saying that what the club is doing is a bad strategy in its own right. I am fully on board with the club making decisions at this point in the preseason, and backing themselves in. The problem is that their decisions, by and large, suck - and worse, they refuse to learn from watching them repeatedly fail. We've seen the club repeatedly back in players at the expense of obviously better options, only to delist them at the end of the season, and then use the remaining players' lack of experience as a reason to overlook them again.

Hey I reckon I had your back

 

[Mostyn]

But if you were going to risk playing an injured player, they had better be a fair bit better injured than the uninjured replacement is uninjured. And yeah, I know we are on the wrong side of that equation too often.

I feel like I hear supporters at every club complaining about that. Or every sport, even.

 

[Mostyn]

I was already there last preseason. I felt like I was going insane last summer, when I would post on here "uh guys, I think the club sees Pedlar as a fringe player??" and almost every response was either shouting me down, or even more bizarrely, accusing me of being a Pedlar-hater myself. Pedlar was probably my favourite player in 2023 and I was really disappointed to see him fall out of favour, and then have a terrible year in 2024.

I'm not even saying that what the club is doing is a bad strategy in its own right. I am fully on board with the club making decisions at this point in the preseason, and backing themselves in. The problem is that their decisions, by and large, suck - and worse, they refuse to learn from watching them repeatedly fail. We've seen the club repeatedly back in players at the expense of obviously better options, only to delist them at the end of the season, and then use the remaining players' lack of experience as a reason to overlook them again.

I think he became a fringe player when he had such a bad offseason - came back out of shape, etc.

A wasted year for Pedlar, but I hope he gets it back

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

I was already there last preseason. I felt like I was going insane last summer, when I would post on here "uh guys, I think the club sees Pedlar as a fringe player??" and almost every response was either shouting me down, or even more bizarrely, accusing me of being a Pedlar-hater myself. Pedlar was probably my favourite player in 2023 and I was really disappointed to see him fall out of favour, and then have a terrible year in 2024.

Like most Crow fans I was expecting/hoping that Pedlar would go to a new level in 2024.

According to Bigman
1) he returned to preseason in poor shape
2) his preseason training was disappointing.

His preseason matches were poor but nevertheless he was selected for Round 1 and played poorly

He was selected for round 2 and played poorly.

He was selected for round 3 and played poorly.

As a small forward he failed to kick a goal in the first three matches. Following the Freo disaster Pedlar was one of 5 players dropped. He played the next 2 games in the SANFL but was then injured and missed more than a month.

I doubt that even his parents would argue he was treated poorly last year.

Sadly Taylor, one of my favourite players, seems to be on the same program this year.

Poor selection?

 

[cmndstab]

Like most Crow fans I was expecting/hoping that Pedlar would go to a new level in 2024.

...

As a small forward he failed to kick a goal in the first three matches. Following the Freo disaster Pedlar was one of 5 players dropped. He played the next 2 games in the SANFL but was then injured and missed more than a month.

I doubt that even his parents would argue he was treated poorly last year.

No doubt he had a disappointing year, I'm not disputing that. My point is, last year he was being played in the 'B' team during training week after week, and the vast majority here said "nothing to worry about, they're just trying him against the better players, it doesn't mean anything, you'd have to be crazy to think he's a fringe player". But in retrospect, it turns out that it did mean something.

This year, we're seeing the likes of Nankervis, Curtin, Taylor etc regularly in the 'B' team, while Murphy, Smith and Milera feature regularly in the 'A' team. I think we should take this at face value - the club views the latter players as still being ahead of the youth in the pecking order.

I'd very much like to be wrong, but the longer preseason goes on, the more I'm expecting us to roll out a round 1 side that, once again, reads like they went to our team page and selected "sort by games played".