List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[Stamos]

IMO, if we had Elijah, Williams, Motlop, Cory and Fantasia up and running at the one time, we wouldn’t be having these conversations. Problem is we can’t get them on the park as one and I have doubts Voss would play them all as one, as he likes his defensive half backs who don’t score.

You can add in a fit H & Charlie.
I'm not sure they all fit at once, and Cottrell is likely in our best team, but what is certain is that Elijah, Fantasia and Durdin play before Evans.

 

[SurreyBlue]

You can add in a fit H & Charlie.
I'm not sure they all fit at once, and Cottrell is likely in our best team, but what is certain is that Elijah, Fantasia and Durdin play before Evans.

What a disastrous selection. I just don’t know what we were thinking but this has Voss written all over it.
How can one of my most favourite opposition players get it so wrong as a coach?

 

[No1Suspect]

Im still flabbergasted that Fantasia & Evans was the best we could come up with. I'll reserve judgement on white because he hasnt had a crack yet, but blimey, Motlop Evans Fantasia Durdin.... talk about uninspiring

 

[Shakin77]

IMO, if we had Elijah, Williams, Motlop, Cory and Fantasia up and running at the one time, we wouldn’t be having these conversations. Problem is we can’t get them on the park as one and I have doubts Voss would play them all as one, as he likes his defensive half backs who don’t score.

It's a good point. Moore and Ginnivan have had two average weeks but as a collective the Hawks smalls have done the job. Motlop had 9 score involvements against the Hawks. Arguably the best small forward on the ground. He needs support not to be dropped.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Hutchy drops that H is on around $1.3M per season…

..so we only have to find an additional $400K ?

 

[agro]

IMO, if we had Elijah, Motlop, Cory and Fantasia up and running at the one time, we wouldn’t be having these conversations. Problem is we can’t get them on the park as one and I have doubts Voss would play them all as one, as he likes his defensive half backs who don’t score.

You’re right Surrey - it would be great if we could get those 4 on the ground at the same time.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Genuinely believe Walsh should be on the trade table.

I wouldn't be shopping him as such, but I'd be tempering his next contract offer significantly.

3 years, $600-650k with some incentives tacked on.

If he takes it, we've got a potentially elite player at a bargain, but we're not overcommitted to a bloke with his share of injury issues and unresolved disposal issues. It's long enough to give him a bit of security, but short enough that he may be prepared to back himself in to improve and earn a bigger payday for the subsequent deal (timed for when a few other big contracts may be ending or tapering).

It's long enough and high enough to not be outright insulting, but definitely indicates that we feel his performance has been below expectation. And it leaves the door ajar for other clubs to come in and offer him "too good to pass up" deals. If the right club comes along with the right deal, and he wants out, then we take it and run. Equivalent of Pick 3-6, either as a single pick at that point, or a combination of later firsts that we like.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Somebody mentioned Leek Aleer. I can’t remember where I read it, but a report in the last couple of weeks has said every club in Victoria is after him. Just saying we might have some competition.

Only matters insofar as the race for his signature, not the trade deal.

Whichever club makes the best pitch is the one he'll nominate, and GWS will then work with that club on a trade. If he nominates Carlton, GWS aren't going to have 6 other clubs making counter-offers to our "we'll give you a future second round pick" - closest it would come to that is a few clubs loitering around in case negotiations became strained, but even then they'd be going through Leek's management to say they're prepared to swoop in if a deal couldn't be reached. Rarely if ever happens.

Challenge for us will be convincing him we're worth nominating. We can offer opportunity, with our backline short a young, quality intercepting tall. He'd come straight in for one of Gov or Haynes. But theoretically, any interested club is going to be offering him opportunity. Other clubs will offer more money, other clubs will offer a more organised/unified/settled club. Our point of difference is likely going to need to be splitting the middle somehow - more money than the premiership contenders can afford, less than the basketcases, and hope he hedges his bets. If he's after success he'll go elsewhere, if he's after the biggest deal possible he'll go elsewhere.

Caveat - we've got the rest of the year to get our shit together and make ourselves a more attractive proposition.

 

[Bletch]

Your figures are off, here are the actual projections.

2026: 18.3 million
2027: 18.4 million
2028: New CBA

I think it's helpful to view these contracts as a percentage of the allocated cap space. For instance, if we take the reports at face value, the Saints are allocating 9.3% of their cap to De Koning. This is quite high, but to put it into context the Swans were allocating 12% of their cap to Buddy - if once again the reports were accurate. It's been well established that most contracts are laden with performance incentives (match payments + awards), so there's a decent chance that when all is said and done the De Koning deal might only be worth 8.4% of the cap, and the Buddy deal was worth 10.8%. Regardless, the Saints are still making a huge bet on De Koning, and if the current trends in player payments hold, he'll be on one of the five largest contracts in the league from 2026 onwards.

As to how the Saints are fitting him in, the answer is that they have a young list, and as such they'll have more players on base contracts than a club like Carlton. When we were rebuilding - and their list manager, was our list manager - we made godfather offers to Shiel and Coniglio (with the latter offer being slightly larger than the De Koning one).

The 2028 CBA may be interesting.

A lot of the long-term contracts are based on the understanding that the cap will rise each year. So, Saints may offer TDK $1.7 (for instance), on the understanding that the latter years of the contract will be on a new CBA, with a cap that is $20m+

But what if a ban on gambling advertising comes in? It's certainly a possibility. If that happens, then it's a significant hit on TV/Streaming revenue, and that would be reflected on at least a hold, if not a decrease in the rights that the AFL earns, which is the AFL's main source of revenue.

Upshot of that would likely mean the 2028 CBA would not see the expected year-to-year increase in the cap. I'd doubt it will decrease, but we might see the cap stuck at $18.4m for a few years.

 

[Bluechip66]

Genuinely believe Walsh should be on the trade table.

Harley Reid, Zak butters….we need to do something to improve.
Move on while we have something to help…not the worst trade scenario at all.
I’d also move on saad, Mcgov durds, fog, etc

 

[Shakin77]

Just go back and have a read over the Cripps thread. In 2021 (?) he was washed up and a must trade. He was clearly hampered with a back issue at that time and was struggling to get through games.

2025 you have a 24-year-old Walsh who has either missed or had an interrupted pre-season for the last 2-3 years and we want to trade him when his value is clearly at its lowest in a long time. Crazy. He clearly is struggling with his number one asset and can't find space at the moment. Let the kid get fit.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Just go back and have a read over the Cripps thread. In 2021 (?) he was washed up and a must trade. He was clearly hampered with a back issue at that time and was struggling to get through games.

2025 you have a 24-year-old Walsh who has either missed or had an interrupted pre-season for the last 2-3 years and we want to trade him when his value is clearly at its lowest in a long time. Crazy. He clearly is struggling with his number one asset and can't find space at the moment. Let the kid get fit.

Counter argument: had we traded Cripps in 2021, we'd still have gotten a kings ransom for him, and could have addressed areas of need that existed back then (and still haven't been addressed). Jason Horne-Francis, Mac Andrew, Josh Rachele, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Leek Aleer, Darcy Wilmot - handful of players there from various parts of the first round, we could have had 1, probably 2 of those instead. Love Cripps, he's an absolute warrior for us, but you can't discount the possibility that the list may be more balanced had we traded him out, brought in a quality CHB and someone with speed and quality disposal, and made do with guys like Kennedy and Hewett as our inside mids.

Trading Walsh isn't necessarily coming from the belief that he's now a rubbish player and will never be any good - but from the belief that our list lacks some very important skill sets, and he may be the right mix of quality/value and expendability to allow us to address those deficits.

 

[DangerousD]

What half backs have we drafted recently? Guys like Carroll and Boyd have been MSD and rookie picks. Wilson was drafted as a mid that can play half back

L.Camp, Charleson, Carrol, Wilson, Boyd are all semi recent and add them to the existing players in those areas of Saad, Newman, Cowan and Hollands.

It is a position we are overstocked in in my opinion.

 

[ESKIE]

OK who was it that rang Dwayne and said we need draft capital, trade Harry

 

[Aphrodite]

OK who was it that rang Dwayne and said we need draft capital, trade Harry

Probably that idjiot 'Snapper' that always calls GuesSEN

 

[katmanblue]

You’re right Surrey - it would be great if we could get those 4 on the ground at the same time.

They'd be stuck on the bench when it matters.


Too soon?

On SM-F946B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

I wouldn't be shopping him as such, but I'd be tempering his next contract offer significantly.

3 years, $600-650k with some incentives tacked on.

If he takes it, we've got a potentially elite player at a bargain, but we're not overcommitted to a bloke with his share of injury issues and unresolved disposal issues. It's long enough to give him a bit of security, but short enough that he may be prepared to back himself in to improve and earn a bigger payday for the subsequent deal (timed for when a few other big contracts may be ending or tapering).

It's long enough and high enough to not be outright insulting, but definitely indicates that we feel his performance has been below expectation. And it leaves the door ajar for other clubs to come in and offer him "too good to pass up" deals. If the right club comes along with the right deal, and he wants out, then we take it and run. Equivalent of Pick 3-6, either as a single pick at that point, or a combination of later firsts that we like.

Make the incentives team based ones rather than personal accolades.

Make your teammates better and get paid more.

On SM-F946B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Flaggers22]

The 2028 CBA may be interesting.

A lot of the long-term contracts are based on the understanding that the cap will rise each year. So, Saints may offer TDK $1.7 (for instance), on the understanding that the latter years of the contract will be on a new CBA, with a cap that is $20m+

AFL contracts are tied to the CBA, so if the salary cap increases by 12%, a player's salary will also increase by 12%. They used to have static wages, but quite a few players got burnt by bad contracts in the 90s and early 2000s.

 

[ESKIE]

Probably that idjiot 'Snapper' that always calls GuesSEN

Not him

 

[hoops2fev]

I know many of us loved Matty Kennedy, was probably most blues supporters favourite player of the last 3 or so years, hard to see him play well on the weekend but happy for him, his post match words about our Footy club just prove again how great a bloke he is

 

[Shakin77]

Counter argument: had we traded Cripps in 2021, we'd still have gotten a kings ransom for him, and could have addressed areas of need that existed back then (and still haven't been addressed). Jason Horne-Francis, Mac Andrew, Josh Rachele, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Leek Aleer, Darcy Wilmot - handful of players there from various parts of the first round, we could have had 1, probably 2 of those instead. Love Cripps, he's an absolute warrior for us, but you can't discount the possibility that the list may be more balanced had we traded him out, brought in a quality CHB and someone with speed and quality disposal, and made do with guys like Kennedy and Hewett as our inside mids.

Trading Walsh isn't necessarily coming from the belief that he's now a rubbish player and will never be any good - but from the belief that our list lacks some very important skill sets, and he may be the right mix of quality/value and expendability to allow us to address those deficits.

But you wouldn't have got a Kings Ransom. He was finished. His worst season since his 2nd year of AFL. The reason you even consider trading him is the reason you don't get a Kings Ransom. Carlton Fans and the Media thought he was washed and overpaid. Turns out he has a broken back and with a full pre-season wins the Brownlow the following year.

So the 2025 Blues are 5th in Contested Ball, 5th in Clearances and 6th in Centre Bounce Clearances. We go ok at the contested game but our ball movement and defense against transition are poor. Our half backs are poor and our half forwards are poor. We spread like treacle. Granted that the Austin has tried to address this issue by bringing in Acres, O Hollands, Wilson, Binns, etc while moving on Dow, Kennedy, Setterfield and Carroll and we still go ok at the contested ball without these guys.

So, to address our lists lack of very important skills we are going to trade a player that when fit has exceptional endurance, work rate, and ability to cover the ground during games.

In the 2nd half of games when we are getting overrun, we need guys like Walsh, other midfielders or high half forwards that can present into space and provide that easy out for a backline. A few more uncontested marks please.

 

[SurreyBlue]

But you wouldn't have got a Kings Ransom. He was finished. His worst season since his 2nd year of AFL. The reason you even consider trading him is the reason you don't get a Kings Ransom. Carlton Fans and the Media thought he was washed and overpaid. Turns out he has a broken back and with a full pre-season wins the Brownlow the following year.

So the 2025 Blues are 5th in Contested Ball, 5th in Clearances and 6th in Centre Bounce Clearances. We go ok at the contested game but our ball movement and defense against transition are poor. Our half backs are poor and our half forwards are poor. We spread like treacle. Granted that the Austin has tried to address this issue by bringing in Acres, O Hollands, Wilson, Binns, etc while moving on Dow, Kennedy, Setterfield and Carroll and we still go ok at the contested ball without these guys.

So, to address our lists lack of very important skills we are going to trade a player that when fit has exceptional endurance, work rate, and ability to cover the ground during games.

In the 2nd half of games when we are getting overrun, we need guys like Walsh, other midfielders or high half forwards that can present into space and provide that easy out for a backline. A few more uncontested marks please.

Not everyone.

 

[SurreyBlue]

1. Club is unhappy with 0-3 start but Voss will see out the year. Don't expect any rash decisions.

2. Expect significant personnel changes in the off-season (both players and coaching).

3. TDK to remain a Blue.


#Bluemour

Point 3 . Very, very important.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

It would depend on a number of factors.

How tight is our salary cap?

Do we retain TDK, and at what cost?

Kemp plays a part, a season kicking ~40 goals means a premium would be required to retain him.

Do we retain mid priced veterans like Doc and McGovern, even Acres is possibly after a bigger pay day which we maybe can’t afford (could be a form explainer)? Does young Motlop look for an undeserved pay rise?

Other than TDK, Walshy is the upcoming “big” contract. If he has lost a yard of pace, it puts him back in the pack. Does his output exceed Hewett’s at half if the price?

Thinking there are plenty of relevant questions for our brain’s trust.

No. We shouldnt.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Acres signed a 2 year extension in June (for 26 & 27)

Ah. crap