Autopsy 2025 Round 5 Blues 121-50 Pressure valve released

[agro]

Coaches' Votes

Carlton v West Coast​

10 Sam Walsh (CARL)
8 George Hewett (CARL)
4 Adam Cerra (CARL)
3 Mitch McGovern (CARL)
2 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
2 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
1 Matthew Cottrell (CARL)

Cory is stiff.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I have a question for you here, because I keep seeing this.

We've played Collingwood (4th), Hawthorn (5th), Bulldogs (12th), Richmond (16th) and WC (18th); you'd argue that's a pretty good cross section/sample size for the competition, between good and poor sides. We have the fourth best points against in the comp; it's why we have such a healthy percentage despite being 1-4. The problem isn't our defense, but our ability to score; we have the fourth worst offense in the comp. Kicking to 60 points a week simply isn't going to see you winning too many AFL games.

So - with that in mind - can you tell me why you think our press structures are poor/not working, when the evidence suggests they very much are?

No problem, it was off the back of a couple of factors within this particular game, the ease in which WCE would move the the ball coast to coast on a number of occasions, more to do with their defensive kick ins which i thought we set up poorly at times, allowing them far to much lattitude & space in moving the ball more freely…

Overall our defensive press for opposition kick ins across all games is an area where we need to focus on improving from what I’ve watched and seen live first hand…

 

[Gethelred]

No problem, it was off the back of a couple of factors within this particular game, the ease in which WCE would move the the ball coast to coast on a number of occasions, more to do with their defensive kick ins which i thought we set up poorly at times, allowing them far to much lattitude & space in moving the ball more freely…

We kicked one hell of a lot of points, giving them 19 opportunities to work their way through a zone. They kicked 6 goals 13.

Now, here's my problem: we can't source those scores without buying a Champion Data subscription, but I'd be willing to go so far as to offer you half of those scores were from kick in.

A side isn't defending badly if their opponents score 3 goals from kick in, FB.

Then, we get to intercept possessions; you know, where they kick to us. Jacob got 11, Haynes and Jack got 9, Gov got 6 and Hollands 4; 39 interceptions. They got 35 inside 50's. We now need to remove 19 of them, for each of their scores, leaving us with 16. What this means is that we intercepted the ball through midfield/back half press 23 times over the course of the game.

There are criticisms to be made concerning our stoppage setup, but it simply isn't good analysis to evaluate our press as poor based on how we've played this year. More than ever before, teams are causing structures to fall apart via sheer speed on the ball; when things break down, they look awful. But that's a comp wide thing, not a Carlton being shit thing.

I'm also not going to get into an eye test versus stats thing here. You need both to really know what's actually going on; lies and damned statistics and all that. But I take issue a bit with defensive criticisms that simply don't hold up when subjected to scrutiny.

 

[GoBlues!]

We kicked one hell of a lot of points, giving them 19 opportunities to work their way through a zone. They kicked 6 goals 13.

Now, here's my problem: we can't source those scores without buying a Champion Data subscription, but I'd be willing to go so far as to offer you half of those scores were from kick in.

A side isn't defending badly if their opponents score 3 goals from kick in, FB.

Then, we get to intercept possessions; you know, where they kick to us. Jacob got 11, Haynes and Jack got 9, Gov got 6 and Hollands 4; 39 interceptions. They got 35 inside 50's. We now need to remove 19 of them, for each of their scores, leaving us with 16. What this means is that we intercepted the ball through midfield/back half press 23 times over the course of the game.

There are criticisms to be made concerning our stoppage setup, but it simply isn't good analysis to evaluate our press as poor based on how we've played this year. More than ever before, teams are causing structures to fall apart via sheer speed on the ball; when things break down, they look awful. But that's a comp wide thing, not a Carlton being shit thing.

I'm also not going to get into an eye test versus stats thing here. You need both to really know what's actually going on; lies and damned statistics and all that. But I take issue a bit with defensive criticisms that simply don't hold up when subjected to scrutiny.

I do recall early in the game two occasions where they kicked it in quickly after we scored a behind. We were a bit slow in setting up and they found a loose player and moved the ball easily to score.

That was only twice I could recall and we fixed it quickly.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

We kicked one hell of a lot of points, giving them 19 opportunities to work their way through a zone. They kicked 6 goals 13.

Now, here's my problem: we can't source those scores without buying a Champion Data subscription, but I'd be willing to go so far as to offer you half of those scores were from kick in.

A side isn't defending badly if their opponents score 3 goals from kick in, FB.

Then, we get to intercept possessions; you know, where they kick to us. Jacob got 11, Haynes and Jack got 9, Gov got 6 and Hollands 4; 39 interceptions. They got 35 inside 50's. We now need to remove 19 of them, for each of their scores, leaving us with 16. What this means is that we intercepted the ball through midfield/back half press 23 times over the course of the game.

There are criticisms to be made concerning our stoppage setup, but it simply isn't good analysis to evaluate our press as poor based on how we've played this year. More than ever before, teams are causing structures to fall apart via sheer speed on the ball; when things break down, they look awful. But that's a comp wide thing, not a Carlton being shit thing.

I'm also not going to get into an eye test versus stats thing here. You need both to really know what's actually going on; lies and damned statistics and all that. But I take issue a bit with defensive criticisms that simply don't hold up when subjected to scrutiny.

FWIW we are currently 5th in the league for Intercepts, number 3 for inside 50's and 2nd in the league for tackles inside 50 - which suggests we aren't defending too badly.

We are also 5th for 1%er's, number 1 for contested possession and 2nd for tackles - which suggests our work rate is in pretty decent order.

However we sit dead last for disposal efficiency and 15th for goals - so it is much less about how we defend and much more about how we attack.

 

[JustaBattler]

FWIW we are currently 5th in the league for Intercepts, number 3 for inside 50's and 2nd in the league for tackles inside 50 - which suggests we aren't defending too badly.

We are also 5th for 1%er's, number 1 for contested possession and 2nd for tackles - which suggests our work rate is in pretty decent order.

However we sit dead last for disposal efficiency and 15th for goals - so it is much less about how we defend and much more about how we attack.

Not 'how' rather 'how well' players can execute kicks and handballs and conversion innit? Which (again) speaks to quality of execution - not game plan ...

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

We kicked one hell of a lot of points, giving them 19 opportunities to work their way through a zone. They kicked 6 goals 13.

Now, here's my problem: we can't source those scores without buying a Champion Data subscription, but I'd be willing to go so far as to offer you half of those scores were from kick in.

A side isn't defending badly if their opponents score 3 goals from kick in, FB.

Then, we get to intercept possessions; you know, where they kick to us. Jacob got 11, Haynes and Jack got 9, Gov got 6 and Hollands 4; 39 interceptions. They got 35 inside 50's. We now need to remove 19 of them, for each of their scores, leaving us with 16. What this means is that we intercepted the ball through midfield/back half press 23 times over the course of the game.

There are criticisms to be made concerning our stoppage setup, but it simply isn't good analysis to evaluate our press as poor based on how we've played this year. More than ever before, teams are causing structures to fall apart via sheer speed on the ball; when things break down, they look awful. But that's a comp wide thing, not a Carlton being shit thing.

I'm also not going to get into an eye test versus stats thing here. You need both to really know what's actually going on; lies and damned statistics and all that. But I take issue a bit with defensive criticisms that simply don't hold up when subjected to scrutiny.

Fair enough, and you make some accurate points, but we don’t defend the opposition kick ins to the standard we could/should be imo, that is my observation…
Happy to leave it here, all good…

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The problem is that Walsh is not guaranteed to be fit from one week to the next. Somebody close to him and his family told me his back is totally stuffed, he is only playing on the back of being jabbed up on game day, and he's a candidate to retire from footy early. He has the desire to play, but his body may not allow it. I hope he can keep going for some years yet, and performances like this week are great, but shouldn't be expected every week.

I've got an idea! Why don't we make him play as an inside mid and absorb tackles every week?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Not 'how' rather 'how well' players can execute kicks and handballs and conversion innit? Which (again) speaks to quality of execution - not game plan ...

How many kicks being directed to guys like Motlop, Fogarty and Williams with 2-3, sometimes even v 4 opponents?

Handballs don't hit targets because mids don't spread well enough, they're in congestion too often.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I still have major doubts on Williams ability to consistently perform as a small forward. Has played one good game as a mid,

the majority of his career he has spent as a defender. Has the speed and ability break lines, that we are lacking in our back

half. Would rather Zac as opposed to Haynes running and creating off half back.

I feel like Williams can’t play back any more. He is such a poor one-on-one defender. We certainly know he can’t play midfielder so I think half forward is his only option. I’m sure he’s a lovely bloke and tries hard but recruiting him has been an absolute disaster for our club.

 

[Soapy V]

Message today that this game was worst for pressure and contact work in AFL history?

Anyone confirm this?

Many at club saying they have never seen a worse game. More effort in pre season games.

 

[Opium]

Message today that this game was worst for pressure and contacted work in AFL history?

Anyone confirm this?

Many at club saying they have never seen a worse game. More effort in pre season games.

It looked terrible on the coverage. 35 tackles

 

[carlton_99]

It looked terrible on the coverage. 35 tackles

Hard to tackle when you are in possession for the vast majority of the game. 421-281 disposals and 136-77 contested possessions would be incredibly rare

 

[Soapy V]

Hard to tackle when you are in possession for the vast majority of the game. 421-281 disposals and 136-77 contested possessions would be incredibly rare

How many tackles did they have?

 

[Arr0w]

Hard to tackle when you are in possession for the vast majority of the game. 421-281 disposals and 136-77 contested possessions would be incredibly rare

I guess we could have tackled a teammate

 

[carlton_99]

How many tackles did they have?

46. Which is far too low given the amount of possession they gave up.

 

[blues4flag]

How many tackles did they have?

We thrashed them around the contest. They had 46 tackles to our 35. We had 40 clearances to their 18, and 73 inside 50s to their 35.

Not too worried about our overall tackles numbers, West Coast were absolutely abysmal.

 

[JustOneTime]

Well this week it definitely wont be bruise free footy. Looking forward to it. Clarko hates our guts just like the Port footy club hate Hawks right now.

If we win, def respect to the boys because it will be a hot game

 

[Soapy V]

We thrashed them around the contest. They had 46 tackles to our 35. We had 40 clearances to their 18, and 73 inside 50s to their 35.

Not too worried about our overall tackles numbers, West Coast were absolutely abysmal.

Yep. Can’t remember seeing worse

 

[Aphrodite]

Well this week it definitely wont be bruise free footy. Looking forward to it. Clarko hates our guts just like the Port footy club hate Hawks right now.

If we win, def respect to the boys because it will be a hot game

Wrong thread

 

[Neese]

Definitely wasn't a quality match. We played better compared to the last month.

 

[JustOneTime]

Wrong thread

Not wrong thread. Context further above. It's related.

 

[Bletch]

Message today that this game was worst for pressure and contact work in AFL history?

Anyone confirm this?

Many at club saying they have never seen a worse game. More effort in pre season games.

Recall commentators said at one point that WC set a new record low (all-time since record has been kept) for contested possessions. Probably explains our low tackle count.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Message today that this game was worst for pressure and contact work in AFL history?

Anyone confirm this?

Many at club saying they have never seen a worse game. More effort in pre season games.

Yeah, could tell just from watching it, WCE weren't up for it at all.

This is why I alluded to the excitement around our GWS practice match - means very little.

Let's just hope getting the monkey off the back in terms of winning a game gives them some confidence going forward.

 

[blueblooded]

We thrashed them around the contest. They had 46 tackles to our 35. We had 40 clearances to their 18, and 73 inside 50s to their 35.

Not too worried about our overall tackles numbers, West Coast were absolutely abysmal.

Abysmal is not the word .. a half decent side would have won that game by 150 points .. it was a training drill and we were abysmal in return. First half was particularly poor from us.
Not taking anything out of this game and if we play like that against north we’ll lose by 7 goals plus.

West coast are in a world of hurt. Never thought I’d see the day they were this bad. Going to take them 5 years to get out of this.