Religion Why is Antisemitism such a big deal but hate against other religions not so much?

[Malifice]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...mas-attack-iii.1381570/page-347#post-88308478

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See the 'suspended' sign next to his name, and the fact the post about 'Jews controlling the media' was deleted?

Ill ban antisemites on sight (and they're prevalent in both the Far Right and conspiracy circles, as well as in some segments of the 'the left').

But criticism of Israel is fair game.

That said, for the last time (and this is for everyone) this thread is not a thread about Israel and Palestine, and the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. We have a thread for that, and If I see discussion of that conflict continue here, I'll lock this thread and that'll be the end of it.

Criticism of the State of Israel is not - in and of itself - antisemitism. That being the case, it has no place in this thread.

 

[PAFC66]

Is it because of the holocaust?

When does that cooldown end?

Because Zionist lobbies are powerful.
The meaning of antisemitism is just comedic now

 

[Malifice]

The meaning of antisemitism is just comedic now

No, it's not.

 

[Malifice]

I'm critical of Israel

As am I and any sane person.

That criticism tends to stray into antisemitism all too often though, with antisemitic tropes about 'Jews controlling the world and the media' and nonsense like that, and 'using the holocaust to their advantage' and 'financing wars through history' type nonsense.

It's rife in conspiracy circles (which have grown exponentially thanks to social media algorithms) and increasing so in opposition to Israels actions in Palestine.

Lets not conflate the two things, by bringing 'Israel' into this thread.

 

[CM86]

As am I and any sane person.

That criticism tends to stray into antisemitism all too often though, with antisemitic tropes about 'Jews controlling the world and the media' and nonsense like that, and 'using the holocaust to their advantage' and 'financing wars through history' type nonsense.

It's rife in conspiracy circles (which have grown exponentially thanks to social media algorithms) and increasing so in opposition to Israels actions in Palestine.

Lets not conflate the two things, by bringing 'Israel' into this thread.

I'll try to be more careful with my posting, and less reactive.

 

[PAFC66]

No, it's not.

It has no Meaning now thanks to zionists…

The official definition now includes criticism of Israel…




Laughable

 

[Malifice]

It has no Meaning now thanks to zionists…

No it doesnt.

The official definition now includes criticism of Israel…

No it doesnt.

 

[PAFC66]

No it doesnt.



No it doesnt.

What is antisemitism? | IHRA working definition

What is antisemitism? The IHRA working definition helps governments, educators, and institutions identify and counter antisemitism all over the world.

holocaustremembrance.com

Sure is. What world are you in?

 

[sdfc]

Of course Israel have equated criticism of their behaviour with antisemitism. Their representatives wore the yellow star to the UN when they were being criticised for their murder of Palestinians.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Balinese Hindus are treated poorly by Islamic Indonesia.

Are they? How exactly?

Islam is synonymous with the violation of human rights. Christianity also, but to a lesser extent. If there is a lesser evil, it's Christianity and Judaism.

There is no lesser evil. There are only fundamentalists and non-fundamentalists. I find fundamentalists of all religions disgusting, and all predisposed to embracing fascism. Islam simply has more prominent fundamentalists.

 

[StackedHunch]

Are they? How exactly?


There is no lesser evil. There are only fundamentalists and non-fundamentalists. I find fundamentalists of all religions disgusting, and all predisposed to embracing fascism. Islam simply has more prominent fundamentalists.

Bollocks. Christian fundamentalists tend to subjugate and harm their own flock (and force backwards laws down people's throat). Jewish fundamentalists do the above, but also demand working people pay for their unproductive existence (reading old scripts all day, every day), and attack people living on land their silly little book says is theirs.
Islamist fundamentalists subjugate all of society, violently punishing 'disobedience' executing those deemed heretics, and carry out suicide attacks in the rest of the world.

I can't imagine any Christian or Jewish fundamentalist theocracies would ever be as barbaric and uncivilised as ISIS was.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Bollocks. Christian fundamentalists tend to subjugate and harm their own flock (and force backwards laws down people's throat). Jewish fundamentalists do the above, but also demand working people pay for their unproductive existence (reading old scripts all day, every day), and attack people living on land their silly little book says is theirs.
Islamist fundamentalists subjugate all of society, violently punishing 'disobedience' executing those deemed heretics, and carry out suicide attacks in the rest of the world.

Sure, you can pretend that Jewish fascists are not committing a genocide right now, and a fascist regime that co-opted religion and churches didn't commit a genocide 80 years ago. Gotta look past lots of examples to keep that narrative going!

I can't imagine any Christian or Jewish fundamentalist theocracies would ever be as barbaric and uncivilised as ISIS was.

Maybe pick up a history book.

 

[StackedHunch]

Sure, you can pretend that Jewish fascists are not committing a genocide right now, and a fascist regime that co-opted religion and churches didn't commit a genocide 80 years ago. Gotta look past lots of examples to keep that narrative going!

Ermm...you must have missed the part about Jewish fundamentalists attacking those around them, champ.

Maybe pick up a history book.

The dark days of Christianity are long gone. Pointing to the Third Reich as some kind of Christian theocracy to diminish the role of Islamism in driving ISIS is a limp-wristed attempt to draw a false equivalency.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Ermm...you must have missed the part about Jewish fundamentalists attacking those around them, champ.

Ermm... your Islamophobia is pretty blatant, champ. You're favourably comparing Christian and Jewish fundamentalists to Islamic ones, so don't condescend to me and pretend you have an actual argument.

The dark days of Christianity are long gone.

So long as Christian fundamentalists still breathe, their religion is in their dark days. The same is true of every other religion. You just want to excuse Christianity and Judaism because you hate Islam.

Pointing to the Third Reich as some kind of Christian theocracy to diminish the role of Islamism in driving ISIS is a limp-wristed attempt to draw a false equivalency.

I didn't say they were a theocracy, my dear dullard. I only said they co-opted churches and religious rhetoric to aid in their goals, which is fact. Are you familiar with the phrase Gott Mit Uns?

 

[StackedHunch]

Ermm... your Islamophobia is pretty blatant, champ. You're favourably comparing Christian and Jewish fundamentalists to Islamic ones, so don't condescend to me and pretend you have an actual argument.

It's Islamophobic to make the contention that ISIS has no moral equivalence among its peer religions? Some places have tolerant and peaceful Islam (look at Java). Some places don't. Calling it Islamophobic to make the distinction is weak as piss.

So long as Christian fundamentalists still breathe, their religion is in their dark days. The same is true of every other religion. You just want to excuse Christianity and Judaism because you hate Islam.

That doesn't actually answer the question though, does it. What's the manifestation of said fundamentalism. I can't say I'm a fan of how Amish people treat women and children, but I don't see them driving horse drawn wagons through festivals.

I didn't say they were a theocracy, my dear dullard. I only said they co-opted churches and religious rhetoric to aid in their goals, which is fact. Are you familiar with the phrase Gott Mit Uns?

We're talking about the relative evils of fundamentalists. Don't raise the rather atheistic Third Reich as a counterpoint if you dont want to be called on it.

 

[Malifice]

What is antisemitism? | IHRA working definition

What is antisemitism? The IHRA working definition helps governments, educators, and institutions identify and counter antisemitism all over the world.

holocaustremembrance.com

Sure is. What world are you in?

I live in the real world, not whatever fantasy world you live in:

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

To guide IHRA in its work, the following examples may serve as illustrations:

Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.

https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/

The above definition (the one you're using as well) clearly state that criticism of Israel cannot be regarded as antisemitic.

Unless of course it also uses antisemitic tropes and is not simply criticism of the State of Israel like criticism of any other State.

Saying 'Israel are shitcampaigners for what they're doing to the Palestinians' is no different to saying 'America are shitcampaigners for what they did to Japanese Americans in WW2'.

That is completely fair game. We literally have a thread where its being openly discussed.

If you then go off on a tirade about how 'Jews control the world/ media/ international finance and are responsible for all the World Wars' or start denying the Holocaust, then yeah - you've clearly overstepped the line.

It's a pretty ****ing obvious line as well. How some of you campaigners don't see where it is, is beyond me.

 

[spinynorman]

I live in the real world, not whatever fantasy world you live in:



https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/

The above definition (the one you're using as well) clearly state that criticism of Israel cannot be regarded as antisemitic.

Unless of course it also uses antisemitic tropes and is not simply criticism of the State of Israel like criticism of any other State.

Saying 'Israel are shitcampaigners for what they're doing to the Palestinians' is no different to saying 'America are shitcampaigners for what they did to Japanese Americans in WW2'.

That is completely fair game. We literally have a thread where its being openly discussed.

If you then go off on a tirade about how 'Jews control the world/ media/ international finance and are responsible for all the World Wars' or start denying the Holocaust, then yeah - you've clearly overstepped the line.

It's a pretty ****ing obvious line as well. How some of you campaigners don't see where it is, is beyond me.

This is the part of that definition above that is cause for the most controversy, and what I think the poster was trying to get at:

“Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.”

That is, that anti-Zionism is antisemitism.

 

[Malifice]

This is the part of that definition above that is cause for the most controversy, and what I think the poster was trying to get at:

“Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.”

The existence of the State of Israel is not a racist endeavor; any more than the Commonwealth of Australia is a racist endeavor. All people (including those of Palestine) have a right of self-determination.

Would you deny Aboriginal Australians the right of self determination? Would you call the Aboriginal tent embassy in Canberra a 'racist endeavor' or an expression of a peoples right of self-determination?

Whether those two States then engage in (or possess) racist policies is up for debate and discussion however.

It would be the same if a group of 'white people' wanted to create a 'whites only' ethnostate. I won't deny their right to self-determination on those grounds, but I can be critical of it as much as a damn well want.

In any event 'criticism of Israel' is expressly not 'antisemitism' under any definition I've ever seen, and if it was somewhere, it's not one I would agree with, or ever enforce.

Now for the last time, 'Israel' is not 'Judaism' any more than 'The State of the Vatican City' is 'Catholicism'. Criticism of Israel is not Antisemitism, anymore that criticizing the Vatican City for bombing the shit out of neighboring Rome would be criticizing the Catholic faith.

5 ****ing pages now of people bringing the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict into a thread about (the very real, but very separate) issue of antisemitism.

 

[Malifice]

Israel's genocide

Take it to the other thread.

 

[evolved2]

Are they? How exactly?

The migration of many Indonesian Hindus to Bali was to evade Islamic persecution.

There is no lesser evil. There are only fundamentalists and non-fundamentalists. I find fundamentalists of all religions disgusting, and all predisposed to embracing fascism. Islam simply has more prominent fundamentalists.

I'm not sure how it's possible to have one without the other. If you convince a group of people that an ancient book of morality, law, history, wisdom and psychology is direct truth from a god, you're going to have some fundamentalists.

I posted criteria by which I adjudicate the 'evilness' of each religion earlier in this thread. It's a cop-out if you're claiming they're all the same.

 

[evolved2]

Ermm... your Islamophobia is pretty blatant, champ. You're favourably comparing Christian and Jewish fundamentalists to Islamic ones, so don't condescend to me and pretend you have an actual argument.

How do you define "Islamophobic"?

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Oh I worked it out!

Never again (to jews)

 

[bengrina]

Probably because it’s now considered antisemitic to have strong views against the forced starvation of children.

 

[madmug]

Probably because it’s now considered antisemitic to have strong views against the forced starvation of children.

Thats the interpretation that the Zionists want. Any criticism is attacked as being antisemitic. They've always done this & had their Conservative media puppies do the same. Thats why its important to take 'them' to task over it. Like any general vilification of religious groups should not be tolerated. ie I don't attack Catholics. Their beliefs are their beliefs. It only bothers me if they try to inflict it on me. However, attacking the Catholic church over their wealth accumulation, colonialist actions over the centuries, grooming & kiddy fiddling & denials. The organisation & those in charge are fair game for the hurt & ills they've caused. Same as Zionist genocidal actions in Gaza are abhorrent, need to be pointed out & attacked.
'Funny' how both are 'protected' by the Conservative media. Even the once respected BBC has been badly infected by the Zionist disease.

 

[bengrina]

Thats the interpretation that the Zionists want. Any criticism is attacked as being antisemitic. They've always done this & had their Conservative media puppies do the same. Thats why its important to take 'them' to task over it. Like any general vilification of religious groups should not be tolerated. ie I don't attack Catholics. Their beliefs are their beliefs. It only bothers me if they try to inflict it on me. However, attacking the Catholic church over their wealth accumulation, colonialist actions over the centuries, grooming & kiddy fiddling & denials. The organisation & those in charge are fair game for the hurt & ills they've caused. Same as Zionist genocidal actions in Gaza are abhorrent, need to be pointed out & attacked.
'Funny' how both are 'protected' by the Conservative media. Even the once respected BBC has been badly infected by the Zionist disease.

Agreed mate , I was being facetious. It’s disgusting what the zionists are trying to do to conflate Jews with any criticism to their genocide in Gaza.