Autopsy Saints forget how to kick a ball and lose to Hawthorn.

[jwikked]

King pretty clearly could and should have been on there tbh. Hard to argue we didnt **** that up.

Great point. Completely forgot about him

 

[thekizzler]

So are competent doctors and surgeons.

That's speculation, mate. They could have mismanaged King's knee. They might not have. No one actually knows beyond their uneducated opinion. It's entirely possible that it has been a complicated injury with unforeseen setbacks. Just as much as mismanagement.

I'm just dealing in known facts about the club's reasoning for not being able to have a mid-season pick.

 

[phantom13]

That's speculation, mate. They could have mismanaged King's knee. They might not have. No one actually knows beyond their uneducated opinion. It's entirely possible that it has been a complicated injury with unforeseen setbacks. Just as much as mismanagement.

I'm just dealing in known facts about the club's reasoning for not being able to have a mid-season pick.

Been diagnosed now and should have been known, its not en unedecated opinion anymore.

Our recent history with knees is ****ing deplorable, defend the club like every knee weve ****ed is some mystery that no one could have possibly foreseen if you like. He was obviously not playing again this year when he missed the first month and at that point it would have been dumb to bring him back anyway.

Should have been LTId, so agree to disagree.

 

[StCicatriz]

Garcia as others have said is adjusting for the speed of the game he doesn’t look panicked and has a nice side step that opens play up
Very promising must keep playing him

He's just for too light for me. He gets pushed off the ball far too easy so unless he gets a clear run at it, he has issues finding it.

 

[StCicatriz]

View attachment 2360778
This is how terrible our forward structure is. Steele has the ball 65 metres out and all our forwards are running towards goal, not one player leading to ball.

This sums it up. Been happening for years.

 

[thekizzler]

Been diagnosed now and should have been known, its not en unedecated opinion anymore.

Our recent history with knees is ****ing deplorable, defend the club like every knee weve ****ed is some mystery that no one could have possibly foreseen if you like. He was obviously not playing again this year when he missed the first month and at that point it would have been dumb to bring him back anyway.

Should have been LTId, so agree to disagree.

How do you actually know that the injury should have been known though?

What facts are there? Are you an ITK?

Just because he is out for the season doesn't necessarily mean that the initial prognosis and setbacks were not legitimate.

You have an opinion based on complete speculation. That's your right. Particularly on a platform like this.

But that's all it is.

 

[StCicatriz]

It’s hardly a trolling attempt.

I’m not going to argue with you back and forward at this point. Those few wins last year have shown little this year in terms of development. If we play a bunch of kids in the final 5 weeks and happen to beat Richmond north etc then I’d say it would mean a lot more to their development then rolling out Webster hill Marshall wood etc and beating them.

At this point you need to measure what success looks like. Winning a handful of games that impacts the quality of kid you can draft or the position of said talent is something you need to be mindful of.

You see it otherwise and that’s fine.

I agree with this.

I think hill is done tbh. I don't see a benefit in playing him moving forward.

Webster looks like it's going to be his last year.

Some of the player older than 24 playing inconsistent football are doing my head in.

Sharman needs an absolute rocket.

I don't see why we are persisting with hunter. He's now back on the HB line because surprise surprise he's ducking shit.

The defensive effort resulting in the chol goal was pathetic. Simply because he wanted a breather.

 

[phantom13]

How do you actually know that the injury should have been known though?

What facts are there? Are you an ITK?

Just because he is out for the season doesn't necessarily mean that the initial prognosis and setbacks were not legitimate.

You have an opinion based on complete speculation. That's your right. Particularly on a platform like this.

But that's all it is.

Theyve diagnosed it now and its something that should have shown up on scans and DEFINITELY should have been seen in one of his 4 previous surgeries.

I suppose theres a chance he injured it post that but it seems incredibly unlikely.

 

[StCicatriz]

There’s some quality melting going on on the Richmond and Melbourne boards for their clubs having overlooked the Viking.

Here’s an example in the Josh Smillie thread on the Tiges board:

View attachment 2361291
View attachment 2361293

Wow

 

[StCicatriz]

I think we need to be realistic and make some super hard calls moving forward based on the output of what they actually consistently produce.



Not some bullshit potential of this view they're always a new draftee who's walked in the door, forever 21 needing more development. It's the marc Murphy trade where Malthouse described him as a young captain when he was 28 years of ****ing age.



These guys have been at the club for years and done nothing. There's always some excuse.



Howard. Caminiti has shown how erratic Howard was with his head up his own ass.



Marshall goes missing far too much and struggled against bigger body ruckmen. With the cloud over king and howard I think he's going to have to play fwd next year.



Steele cannot he captain. What's worrying is Wilkie has the early signs of showing his age. He's struggled when the ball hit the deck but it's noticeable now. We should have taken the captaincy off him this year unfortunately.



Hunter should have been done 3 seasons ago. It's a disgrace he's earned a two year deal. We had learnt absolutely nothing from the jack billings

14

Jack Billings

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

19.7

5star

K

11.7

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.3

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

4.6

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

scenario.



Carrol ain't getting near it.



Sharman goes missing for huges parts of the game then has Howard moments. Kicks 3 or 5 then goes to sleep for a month.



Jones is cooked.



Butler and Hill just far too inconsistent now. When they're on they're on but they're often now missing for huge parts of the game.



People won't like this one. But I think we have a huge huge issue with Windy if our only go to is for him to tag. He needs to start working into games. He's crucial as I think its a big piece of how we get nas to stay.

 

[Remboy]

Point taken haha.

I have to admire the delusional savagery in some supporters though.

"Oi Cords, you due back about R18 from injury but you're f***ing sh*t so we are putting you on the LTI. Sorry mate."

If you want delusion you should take a look at the main board. This place is the height of sanity compared to some posters over there.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Theyve diagnosed it now and its something that should have shown up on scans and DEFINITELY should have been seen in one of his 4 previous surgeries.

I suppose theres a chance he injured it post that but it seems incredibly unlikely.

Your basing that off the initial diagnosis should have been 100% correct. Not sure surgeons get that right all the time. Sports medicine can be predictive based on what usually works.

 

[phantom13]

Your basing that off the initial diagnosis should have been 100% correct. Not sure surgeons get that right all the time. Sports medicine can be predictive based on what usually works.

No im not but its a moot point

 

[stavro#4]

Your basing that off the initial diagnosis should have been 100% correct. Not sure surgeons get that right all the time. Sports medicine can be predictive based on what usually works.

They saw “several surgeons”. Let’s be honest, if this was ourselves with the issue we would be ropable it’s taken multiple surgeries to correct and not picked up for 6 months.

The fact it’s a multimillion dollar asset is worse

 

[hayes]

I was ready to write Hastie off after the first half (in combination with what we’ve seen previously) but that was some sort of comeback. Must persist for the rest of the year.

Our forwards are copping a lot of slack, to me it’s not even really playing a forward line is why they’re struggling. When you send everyone into the midfield you can’t expect the forward line to function well. I know we got it in there a lot but when y has to be perfect of course there’s going to be some struggles.

At the risk of going early which I try not to do anymore………….build the club around Tauru.

 

[SaintJunior]

View attachment 2361112

Given Hodge’s track record he would be about to hop in the car .

 

[Nutsngum]

It was weak by the club to not make it happen. Simple as that.

As for the personal shots, pathetic.

You think players are going to want to come to a club that forces players onto an LTI when they are still capable of playing that year?

On top of that, the AFLPA would rightfully have a ****ing field day and the AFL itself likely would as it almost certainly would account to an unreasonable breaking of contract.

It would have been a terrible decision, ethically for Cordy, legally speaking and would absolutely sling us through the mud in the media. People like Caro would have a field day shitting on us.

 

[StCicatriz]

They saw “several surgeons”. Let’s be honest, if this was ourselves with the issue we would be ropable it’s taken multiple surgeries to correct and not picked up for 6 months.

The fact it’s a multimillion dollar asset is worse

By the sounds of it they weren't listening to King either. He was telling them its no good and by the sounds if it they wanted to see how he'd go. Then when they couldn't get him going they went back again. Rinse and repeat.

 

[jwikked]

You think players are going to want to come to a club that forces players onto an LTI when they are still capable of playing that year?

On top of that, the AFLPA would rightfully have a ****ing field day and the AFL itself likely would as it almost certainly would account to an unreasonable breaking of contract.

It would have been a terrible decision, ethically for Cordy, legally speaking and would absolutely sling us through the mud in the media. People like Caro would have a field day shitting on us.

You're right, why would anyone put a player that's spend months on the sidelines on the LTI? What a silly thing to want the club to have done.

 

[ThomasR]

You think players are going to want to come to a club that forces players onto an LTI when they are still capable of playing that year?

On top of that, the AFLPA would rightfully have a ****ing field day and the AFL itself likely would as it almost certainly would account to an unreasonable breaking of contract.

It would have been a terrible decision, ethically for Cordy, legally speaking and would absolutely sling us through the mud in the media. People like Caro would have a field day shitting on us.

agree with most of that, but one thing that prevents the above scenario (and seemingly missing from this discussion) is that the AFL has to approve the transfer to the LTI list based on submitted medical evidence. it's not entirely at the club's discretion. the AFL would then have limited recourse for a transfer they approved

Cordy was listed as 6-8 weeks before the MSD and 5 weeks away the following week - so it would have been hard to prove he had a bona fide LTI. probably the same with King as nobody appeared to have a clue what was going on at the time. so even if we wanted to move them the AFL's general counsel may have vetoed it

 

[CaptainRisky]

Higgo played a lot better when Butler wasn’t there. Owens too.
Time for Collard again?

You obviously didn't see Sandy play on the weekend , Collard is closer to being delisted than getting a game ATM, He hasn't improved any part of his game since he joined us nearly Two years ago, I cant see how he gets another contract if he keeps going the way he is .

 

[Nutsngum]

You're right, why would anyone put a player that's spend months on the sidelines on the LTI? What a silly thing to want the club to have done.

There is still 7 rounds of the H&A season remaining, LTI lists are for placing inactive players on who cannot return to play for that year. I'm not privy to the actual wording but I would be certain that once on there they cannot play again that year.

Cordy is available this week by all reports. Do you think Dow should have been placed on it as well despite being back now for 2 weeks despite his injury? Like I get it, Cordy wont get another contract and we have list needs but that doesn't change that you cant just treat a player like that.
Apart from that the fact he's an actual person who deserves more respect then that it is absolutely a shocking look to everyone outside the club as Ive said.

Besides,

agree with most of that, but one thing that prevents the above scenario (and seemingly missing from this discussion) is that the AFL has to approve the transfer to the LTI list based on submitted medical evidence. it's not entirely at the club's discretion. the AFL would then have limited recourse for a transfer they approved

Cordy was listed as 6-8 weeks before the MSD and 5 weeks away the following week - so it would have been hard to prove he had a bona fide LTI. probably the same with King as nobody appeared to have a clue what was going on at the time. so even if we wanted to move them the AFL's general counsel may have vetoed it

This is probably 100% correct and the AFL has to sign off on LTIs anyway.

 

[Jade Buddha]

They saw “several surgeons”. Let’s be honest, if this was ourselves with the issue we would be ropable it’s taken multiple surgeries to correct and not picked up for 6 months.

The fact it’s a multimillion dollar asset is worse

Yep agree but there are no guarantees in surgery. They’ll even get you to sign the clause that identifies the percentage or risk.

 

[jwikked]

I'm not privy to the actual wording but I would be certain that once on there they cannot play again that year.

If they're on it, they can't play for a minimum 6 rounds

 

[pebblesofsand]

agree with most of that, but one thing that prevents the above scenario (and seemingly missing from this discussion) is that the AFL has to approve the transfer to the LTI list based on submitted medical evidence. it's not entirely at the club's discretion. the AFL would then have limited recourse for a transfer they approved

Cordy was listed as 6-8 weeks before the MSD and 5 weeks away the following week - so it would have been hard to prove he had a bona fide LTI. probably the same with King as nobody appeared to have a clue what was going on at the time. so even if we wanted to move them the AFL's general counsel may have vetoed it

Not quite right.

At the time of the draft Cordy was unavailable for more than 6 weeks so therefore it would have been completely within the rules for him to be moved off the main list to the LTI list .

The complication is that because our list was completely full, if we then filled the spot legitimately created by putting Cordy on the LTI list, Cordy then has no capacity to rejoin the list this year irrespective of whether he recovered or not.

Now the AFL mightn't like that process but if Cordy agreed to it and said - yep I'm done - we could have been part of the mid season draft.

Given that we interviewed a number of players in the lead up to draft, I'm certain it was discussed and maybe Cordy was reluctant and in which case we do the right thing and not force him out.

EDIT - my bad - the info about 6 weeks is out of date and as of Feb 2025 its now "season ending injury" and its now called the "Inactive List".

No wonder I couldn't find it when I google "Long Term Injury List".