AFL exploring new mid-season tournament for cash prize

[Cyclops]

Great.

Thanks for planting the seed.

I can see the AFL float this in coming months. 3 balls in play for the third quarter. You could have two reds and a yellow which is double points.

Obviously extra points for a goal outside 50.

Spectators and cameras won’t know where to look. You can already hear the excited squeals coming from BT and Derwayne.

As if the game hasn’t been compromised enough.

I'm a **** like that.

One of our Hawk brethren (IIRC) has a clever notion for 3 side football matches too, 3 goals , 3 50 metre arcs, modified 666 rule, everything.

We may live long enough to see this enacted. In that time all shall suffer abmnbfwail, the living will envy the dead and Carlton will finish top 4.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Fix the f**** game first before considering this nonsense.

A secondary competition that everyone treats as a joke would be a great place to put in some wacky rules.
Its a part of why teams wanted to lose in the pore-season cup. If you stayed in the competition you played under experimental rules. If you got kicked out and played practice matches you had normal rules (and the big Vic cluns were guaranteed of practice matches on regular grounds at home, no trip to Perth or Launceston.
Put the second round onwards of the pre-season at main venues and all practice games in the bush and some big clubs may have taken it a bit more seriously. Or possibly not. But as it was every incentive to prepare for the season was (unless you had to chase the prize money) to lose in the competition.

From memory the ruke thing did change in ther last year or two but the damage had been done.

 

[Cyclops]

If its done well and the clubs take it seriously then it would improve the season undoubtably.

Once we get 19 teams, only have 1 trophy to win every year is not enough, and there's no logical reason fans can't enjoy a 2nd trophy if its done properly.

Look absolutely right, and my whinging is mostly about my lack of faith in the AFL to do anything right.

 

[The Tilt]

Im not sure its a quirk if it happens for one team every year. Its also not the fault of Collingwood. Any club would take the chance if offered.

The problem is the AFL is a cash whore who see money as more important than integrity. Its why these things happen. Its why the AFL are perfectly okay with an umpire working for a gambling company.

I'm not sure the AFL the only cash whore in this situation. Do you really Hawthorn want their home game against Collingwood to be played in Launceston?

 

[Rod Stroker]

Ridiculous. Nothing more than another cash grab.

How about they fix all the issues with the current in-season competition, before launching a parallel competition.

"they got a lot of other things that they've got to take care of first"

Thank you Jimmy. The voice of reason.

 

[Dan26]

A secondary competition that everyone treats as a joke

It would be incorporated into the home and away season where the cup games count also as part of the H&A season (which is how they doing in the NBA cup)

The idea for the AFL would be perhaps to have 3 groups of 6. So you play 2 group games. The top team in each group and the two best teams to not win a group comprise the 8 quarter finalists.

The quarter finals and semi finals are all also counted as H&A games with the final being held on a stand alone weekend as an extra match and the ONLY match not to be counted as part of the H&A season.

There is nowhere near enough success in the AFL industry and that’s becoming a big problem. Fans need to be rewarded more. One trophy for 19 teams with no secondary trophy is not good enough. That might have been okay with 12 teams, but with 18 (soon to be 19) there needs to be more secondary trophies to win like in Soccer with the League Cup and FA Cup

 

[Quinten Kennedy]

As long as they don't add in different rules, I don't really see how it hinders anything.

But if they do that and also change up the rules... I'm out.

 

[dumb]

your team (any team, but let's say carlton) has kinda fallen off a cliff at some point during the year. the lid is back on, and the fans are jumping off the bandwagon, lots of talk how they won't go to games anymore, won't watch them. there are fans disengaging with afl.
what can the afl do to appease their tv broadcast gods?

ironically, it clashes with the idea of themed rounds. those were supposed to be the things that elevate the humdrum of home & away into moments. why would some rounds be more appropriate to fall inside this tournament than others?

 

[Bucking Bronco]

It would be incorporated into the home and away season where the cup games count also as part of the H&A season (which is how they doing in the NBA cup)

The idea for the AFL would be perhaps to have 3 groups of 6. So you play 2 group games. The top team in each group and the two best teams to not win a group comprise the 8 quarter finalists.

The quarter finals and semi finals are all also counted as H&A games with the final being held on a stand alone weekend as an extra match and the ONLY match not to be counted as part of the H&A season.

There is nowhere near enough success in the AFL industry and that’s becoming a big problem. Fans need to be rewarded more. One trophy for 19 teams with no secondary trophy is not good enough. That might have been okay with 12 teams, but with 18 (soon to be 19) there needs to be more secondary trophies to win like in Soccer with the League Cup and FA Cup

That's not what the report today said though:

While games in the NBA’s in-season tournament count towards the regular season, the AFL’s concept would be completely separate to the home and away campaign, with two options for when games would be played.


One is for games to run simultaneously with the premiership season, with matches to be played every four to six weeks. The other could see the season paused for around a month in the middle of the campaign to open up a slot.

You've fired off without reading birdbrain Dillon's grand plan.

I agree, if it was like the NBA it might be ok, but Dillon as usual has come up with something completely cooked.

I also don't see how it fixes his issue of "the end of the season has become meaningless", if the tournament is done by the middle of the season.

 

[Philhawk]

This is extremely stupid.

Why does the head office at the AFL always get it so wrong?

 

[Brasher]

It would be incorporated into the home and away season where the cup games count also as part of the H&A season (which is how they doing in the NBA cup)

The idea for the AFL would be perhaps to have 3 groups of 6. So you play 2 group games. The top team in each group and the two best teams to not win a group comprise the 8 quarter finalists.

The quarter finals and semi finals are all also counted as H&A games with the final being held on a stand alone weekend as an extra match and the ONLY match not to be counted as part of the H&A season.

There is nowhere near enough success in the AFL industry and that’s becoming a big problem. Fans need to be rewarded more. One trophy for 19 teams with no secondary trophy is not good enough. That might have been okay with 12 teams, but with 18 (soon to be 19) there needs to be more secondary trophies to win like in Soccer with the League Cup and FA Cup

I agree with the sentiment that clubs need to have more to play for. Basically it's premiership or first pick in the draft.

However, if the comp plays out as you describe then you totally compromise the main draw. For instance, you draw a quarter final opponent you've already played in the regular season. It means you can't schedule the second half of the fixture unless you either manipulate the quarter finals or delay the second half of the season to ensure noone ends up playing each other 3 times.

For mind, it's just another loosely hobbled together idea that allows the AFL to screw the main draw even further.

 

[Dan26]

I agree with the sentiment that clubs need to have more to play for. Basically it's premiership or first pick in the draft.

However, if the comp plays out as you describe then you totally compromise the main draw. For instance, you draw a quarter final opponent you've already played in the regular season. It means you can't schedule the second half of the fixture unless you either manipulate the quarter finals or delay the second half of the season to ensure noone ends up playing each other 3 times.

For mind, it's just another loosely hobbled together idea that allows the AFL to screw the main draw even further.

Yes, the fixturing is complicated but not impossible. The NBA re-do some of the fixture once the quarter finalists are decided and each team still has their 41 home and 41 away games. They still make it work.

I'll have a crack at how to make it work.

 

[Dan26]

That's not what the report today said though:



You've fired off without reading birdbrain Dillon's grand plan.

I agree, if it was like the NBA it might be ok, but Dillon as usual has come up with something completely cooked.

I also don't see how it fixes his issue of "the end of the season has become meaningless", if the tournament is done by the middle of the season.

Yes MY idea (and the only one that would work) would be to incorporate the Cup games into the home and away season (except the final, which would be held on a stand alone weekend)

Having Cup games as extra games in addition to the 23 H&A games will not work as it's too big an impost on the players. They MUST also count as H&A games or it won't work.

 

[Brasher]

Yes, the fixturing is complicated but not impossible. The NBA re-do some of the fixture once the quarter finalists are decided and each team still has their 41 home and 41 away games. They still make it work.

I'll have a crack at how to make it work.

Got to be careful comparing the NBA though. 84 reg games, over a hundred if they make playoffs, ratings in the tank, star players taking nights off, I'd suggest the NBA needs something to fire it up.

AFL just want another stall at the county fair. Biggest grifters in corporate Australia.

 

[juss]

Hate the idea, but the broadcasters would love it, so it probably goes through.

 

[L_W_P]

It would be incorporated into the home and away season where the cup games count also as part of the H&A season (which is how they doing in the NBA cup)

The idea for the AFL would be perhaps to have 3 groups of 6. So you play 2 group games. The top team in each group and the two best teams to not win a group comprise the 8 quarter finalists.

The quarter finals and semi finals are all also counted as H&A games with the final being held on a stand alone weekend as an extra match and the ONLY match not to be counted as part of the H&A season.

There is nowhere near enough success in the AFL industry and that’s becoming a big problem. Fans need to be rewarded more. One trophy for 19 teams with no secondary trophy is not good enough. That might have been okay with 12 teams, but with 18 (soon to be 19) there needs to be more secondary trophies to win like in Soccer with the League Cup and FA Cup

But then we come back to the fixture issue, just with the Cup.

How do you balance home/away? How do you work out breaks for traveling teams playing in the Cup vs the Premiership? Do you run the risk of teams tanking their Cup games in order to focus on the Premiership?

 

[spudmaster]

Scrap the cash prize and compete for a couple of these bad boys.

 

[Dan26]

OK, so the way to schedule an AFL Cup incorporated into the Home and away season would be something like this:

24 Round H&A season with each team playing 23 matches. Every team gets one bye, which is a split round in rounds 12 and 13

15 matches are already scheduled months in advance just like normal (no double up games yet) but only from rounds 1 to 17, with rounds 6 and 8 being held blank for AFL Cup quarter finals and semi finals. Rounds 18-24 get scheduled after round 8 has been completed.

I'm not taking into account Anzac round and Gather Round or anything. I'm just looking at the format.


AFL Cup rounds are all in BOLD. AFL Cup consists of 6 groups of 3. You play the other two teams in your group once for two group games. The 6 group winners and the two best teams to not win a group comprise the 8 quarter finalists. ALL AFL Cup games are also home and away games for four 4 points except the Grand Final. Under this format, the full fixture would be revealed in its entirety after round 8.



Round 1: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed


Round 2: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed: AFL CUP Group game 1


Round 3: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed


Round 4: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed: AFL Cup group game 2
Quarter finalists are now decided. Round 6 is now fixtured accordingly with 4 AFL Cup quarter-Finals and 5 non AFL-Cup games

Round 5: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 6: AFL Cup quarter finals (4 games) with 5 other non-AFL cup games for regular 9 game round. This was scheduled after round 4

Round 7: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 8: AFL Cup semi-finals (two games), scheduled after round 6. The four losing quarter finalists play each other in two games which are just regular home and away games. This "could" be the second meeting bewteen teams, and if so would count as one of the 6 double up matches a team plays for the year if so. The other 5 non AFL-Cup matches would have been scheduled after round 4 and make up the balance of the 9 games in the round. Rounds 18-24 are now scheduled directly after round 8 and the full fixture revealed ensuring all 18 teams have 6 double up games.


Stand alone AFL CUP Grand Final held on Saturday night between round 9 and 10. Not counted as a home and away game. The 16 non participants get a bye

Round 9: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 10: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 11: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 12: scheduled fixture with 4 games with all dates and times fixed (split round 10 teams have bye

Round 13: scheduled fixture with 5 games with all dates and times fixed (split round 8 teams have bye)

Round 14: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 15: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 16: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 17: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 18: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 19: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 20: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 21: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 22: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 23: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 24: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

 

[Altum Volantes]

I have followed the game my entire life and I can not remember being less certain they have any idea what they are doing at the AFL.

...and I'm not one who usually buys into the whole 'AFL House is bad' narrative.

Absolute Muppet Show that is pretty much just making it up as they go at this stage.

 

[Dan26]

But then we come back to the fixture issue, just with the Cup.

How do you balance home/away? How do you work out breaks for traveling teams playing in the Cup vs the Premiership? Do you run the risk of teams tanking their Cup games in order to focus on the Premiership?

The Cup games ARE regular premiership games for 4 points, so no one is tanking anything. I've released a full format for how it can work.

 

[Dirty Bird]

No.

In the first match (regular H:A season) it'll be kept fair.
All vic teams would have 4 away games (1 to each state)
But the AFL would maintain rivalries for double ups and commercial value:

ADEL-PA-STK
BRIS-GC-MELB
GWS-SYD-WB
FRE-WC-NM
CARL-COLL-GEEL
ESS-RICH-HAW

So this would lead to StK/MELB/WB/NM getting an extra 5th away game, whereas the big 6 Vic teams wouldn't.

Then there's also the chance that you could get something like

Adel vs Geel
Bris vs WB
Fre vs GC
Coll vs Haw

geel vs Coll
Bris vs GC

Bris vs Coll

What does this mean? You've just created a situation where GEEL-COLL And BRIS-GC play 3 games against each other in the season. Or do you manipulate the fixture so they can't match until the final? Sure, plausible, but 1 team might have earnt a better Qtr final matchup, but got screwed over due to the AFL fixture.

Also, how do you maintain who plays what?
The group games would all maintain 1h 1a

But what happens if the winners of the qtr finals is anything but 2h teams winning and 2a teams winning.

If all 4 teams win, 2 teams will have an extra home game compared to 2 other teams at seasons end (And theyll be 2 losers in the qtr final stage)

Cool. Your idea takes away the inequities of the current fixture, but potentially causes more.

Oh, draws. Because of needing a result, it'd force OT into at a minimum the knockout games of the in-season tournament. But that'd look weird, oh. Game in Rd 5, draw counts, oh that game in Rd 16. You have to play OT. So OT is now brought into the league. However, in a game like ours, it's so rare, you're introducing something which is detrimental to players health and can cause fatigure.

The more I think about it, the more I hate it.

Still better than the 17 (+Rivalry) - 5 idea though.

 

[Kappa]

"they got a lot of other things that they've got to take care of first"

Thank you Jimmy. The voice of reason.

Why do people act like big organizations with multiple different departments cant work on multiple things at the same time?

 

[dazbroncos]

yeah great idea lets put teams players at more risk of injury for games that mean nothing.

Can they be any more stupid.

GO CAtters

 

[D-N-R]

So if you win a spot in the finals in the middle of the year, can you put the cue in the rack?

Better idea would be to create a table based on the games you play against teams only once. Then the next pre season, teams are seeded into groups and the mini comp is made. Or something. 19 teams chucks a spanner in the works however you look at it.

If the grand prize is the Grand Final, teams are still going to take a secondary comp less seriously. If teams do take it seriously, then the better teams will win it anyway and the teams in the wilderness will remain there. Winning the double will be the aim.

 

[jdeezy]

OK, so the way to schedule an AFL Cup incorporated into the Home and away season would be something like this:

24 Round H&A season with each team playing 23 matches. Every team gets one bye, which is a split round in rounds 12 and 13

15 matches are already scheduled months in advance just like normal (no double up games yet) but only from rounds 1 to 17, with rounds 6 and 8 being held blank for AFL Cup quarter finals and semi finals. Rounds 18-24 get scheduled after round 8 has been completed.

I'm not taking into account Anzac round and Gather Round or anything. I'm just looking at the format.


AFL Cup rounds are all in BOLD. AFL Cup consists of 6 groups of 3. You play the other two teams in your group once for two group games. The 6 group winners and the two best teams to not win a group comprise the 8 quarter finalists. ALL AFL Cup games are also home and away games for four 4 points except the Grand Final. Under this format, the full fixture would be revealed in its entirety after round 8.



Round 1: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed


Round 2: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed: AFL CUP Group game 1


Round 3: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed


Round 4: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed: AFL Cup group game 2
Quarter finalists are now decided. Round 6 is now fixtured accordingly with 4 AFL Cup quarter-Finals and 5 non AFL-Cup games

Round 5: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 6: AFL Cup quarter finals (4 games) with 5 other non-AFL cup games for regular 9 game round. This was scheduled after round 4

Round 7: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 8: AFL Cup semi-finals (two games), scheduled after round 6. The four losing quarter finalists play each other in two games which are just regular home and away games. This "could" be the second meeting bewteen teams, and if so would count as one of the 6 double up matches a team plays for the year if so. The other 5 non AFL-Cup matches would have been scheduled after round 4 and make up the balance of the 9 games in the round. Rounds 18-24 are now scheduled directly after round 8 and the full fixture revealed ensuring all 18 teams have 6 double up games.


Stand alone AFL CUP Grand Final held on Saturday night between round 9 and 10. Not counted as a home and away game. The 16 non participants get a bye

Round 9: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 10: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 11: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 12: scheduled fixture with 4 games with all dates and times fixed (split round 10 teams have bye

Round 13: scheduled fixture with 5 games with all dates and times fixed (split round 8 teams have bye)

Round 14: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 15: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 16: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 17: scheduled fixture with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 18: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 19: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 20: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 21: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 22: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 23: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Round 24: scheduled fixture set after round 8 with 9 games with all dates and times fixed

Logistics on this are interesting, major issue I can see with this right off the bat is that they are taking about doing this when we've got 19 teams though. How would things work then?