Autopsy 5 point win vs St.Kilda

[SwansProudly]

 

[bedford]

GO BLOODS how good to beat these rats

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Saints had a shitload of under 24 players they should be decent next season if they can get King fit

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I don't think the umpiring favoured one team or the other that much, but it is just bad ... period.

So many 50/50 contests are paid as free kicks, and then the exact same thing happens and it isn't a free kick.

One or two wouldn't be a big deal, but it is over and over again through the entire game. To the point where I have no idea what is a free kick and what isn't.

Can you hold in the ruck? or can you not? Can you smash into someone with front on contact, or can you not? If there is a forward and defender both holding each other, who gets the free kick? It seems completely random.

It’s a big concern because when literally no-one knows WTF is against the rules and what’s not, there is massive potential there for match fixing.

Not saying there is corruption of umps, I hasten to add, but we’ve seen in the political arena how quickly disinformation leads to erosion of accountability.

 

[Saints4ever]

Well done on the win swans fans.

Hayward was epic in the last qtr and threading that goal from the boundary was brilliant.

Grundy absolutely dominated in the ruck and the palm down to Gulden in the last was just poetry in motion.

Interesting reading through your thread about your thoughts on the umpires.

When I was watching the game in the heat of the moment with my saints glasses on I thought we was extremely hard done by especially Caminiti on Buller in the 1st when they was grappling each other and holding each other just let them play on in that situation.

Grundy was given a couple of interesting free kicks and holding the ball was an absolute lottery.

On reflection after I can see the game logically Wilkie was 100% holding the ball in the last qtr and you should have been given a free kick straight in front and the 50 metre penalty was pretty dodgy.

I understand this is a swans forum and the game is watched through a swans lens but trust me the umpiring was complete rubbish both ways.

The worst umpired game I’ve seen this season.

All the best with the rest of the year hope you don’t mind the intrusion.

 

[rustycrate]

I think the further away from defence that Lloyd plays, the better he plays.
I was watching him line up for goal and I was thinking "I'd pick him to kick for my life". I was that confident.
He is like a seagull on a chip, pickup is clean and he delivers in spades.

 

[wills2g]

People called Lloyd washed but he had 94% game time playing wing

Hes still an endurance machine and runs into the right spots for a mark

 

[rustycrate]

I wouldn’t say so, no.

He does lead the post-goal chat among the back 6, but he’s not as vocal as Sir Dane in general play.

Having said that, he is still a solid presence at centre half back. I reckon we’d be in real strife if both Mills and Sir Dane were missing.

The other thing I’ll say - Harry Cunningham is just such a smart footballer. You really notice how he’s just always in the right spot at the right time. I reckon we likely underestimate how much we missed him when he was out earlier in the season.

And Cunningham has speed. Genuine speed. He is not fast. He is @#$%#* fast.

 

[Jimbo OZ]

Campbell needs to develop a Chad ego when he has the ball on or outside 50 and just kick for goal.

 

[Swans22]

I was at the game and the saints threw everything at us - their pressure was immense all game.
Great to see Buller do well. Sheldrick had a great game. Crucial goal and his delivery into the forward line was very good. Watching him live - he is actually quite evasive and not as ‘Tom Mitchell’ like as people assume!
Mills has copped a heap on here but do people realise that he was shifted onto NWM at half time and did a good job of limiting his influence? He was running riot in the 1st half. Don’t get me wrong Mills produced some shocking turnovers.
There is one player who is noticeably shaky with the ball - Roberts. Not just kicks. He did a dodgy 5m handball in front of the goals which to a turnover goal in the last quarter. Blakey had a shocker too. But you get the good with the bad with Blakey, generally the good outweighs the bad but not if that was the case yesterday.
Good win given how poor some of our execution was in the back half.

 

[RubbaDuck]

What a perfect morning.

I've been in the UK and France for much or the northern summer. Here in the High Weald birds loudly announce the arrival of first light, a little after 4am. I managed to sleep until about 6am then opened the AFL website and lay in bed listening to our game. At quarter time we were ahead but we quickly fell behind as the Saints launched attack after attack during the second quarter. Crikey. I could only hope we were fighting back, but all I could hear were the names of Saints players dominating as their score continued to climb. I didn't like that reality so I turned it off.

At a more reasonable hour I found myself ensconsed in a comfy seat on a shaded terrace. It was not yet hot but the early sun had already drawn the last moisture from the wildflowers and beds of colourful perennials. A perfectly sunny Eden lay before me. A slight breeze brought the reassuring scent of ancient oaks and fern glades from a woodland. Pollinators played background hums to the tunes of wild birds. A steam train whistled as it chugged up the next valley, a couple of kms away. Draft horses in the fields behind added their snorts of bass.

In perfect morning tranquility, listening to the laid back sounds of an early summers day, an English idyll, I clicked on my browser to open the game again. "Wwaaugh!" I panicked. The game was unexpectedly still alive, the scores were tied at 86 points apiece and what's more, there were still some few minutes to play - Now I'm not normally a superstitious chap but ancient ley lines run deep, criss-crossing between the villages and towns of the English countryside - I took no chances. I slammed the laptop shut, lest I jinx us again, then just as quickly re-opened it again to shut down the browser too. "Phew". With the laptop and browser both firmly shut down I was free to bend reality to my own wishes. My thoughts were tuned entirely onto perfectly poached eggs, cumberland sausages and bacon from happy pigs and freshly ground coffee. Mostly I thought of the miraculous powers of Errol Gulden.

I visualised Gulden weaving his way past opponents before kicking truly for goal on his trusted left foot, convincing myself that he alone could and would save us. Only when my perfect breakfast arrived, exactly as I'd imagined, did I dare to sneak a peek at the final score.

Errol had heard my thoughts and kicked the winning goal, assisted by the spirit of the divine* Grundy.

*He who gives first use to his disciples.

 

[Nuggetz]

Get to believe for one more week

 

[liz]

When I was watching the game in the heat of the moment with my saints glasses on I thought we was extremely hard done by especially Caminiti on Buller in the 1st when they was grappling each other and holding each other just let them play on in that situation.

I might be wrong, but my interpretation of both frees against Caminiti was that they were for shepherding rather than just holding. In each case, Caminiti had his back to play and was facing his opponent, and prevented the Swans player (one time Buller, can’t recall who the Swan in the second contest was) from reaching the contest while making no attempt to contest the ball himself.

I know frees in those kinds of contests are as frustrating as ruck contest frees because they are applied so inconsistently. Commentators don't help, Especially when they laud a player for a great block that enables a team mate to take a mark, but I think having your back to play and not trying to contest are two triggers for the umps.

I can’t agree it was the worst umpires game all year. Seemed pretty standard to me. Some mistakes were made for/against both teams but that’s par for the course.

 

[Donza]

Campbell needs to develop a Chad ego when he has the ball on or outside 50 and just kick for goal.

Yeah he pulled out a wedge and nearly donked it from 50.
A 7iron and it would have sailed over.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Well done on the win swans fans.

Hayward was epic in the last qtr and threading that goal from the boundary was brilliant.

Grundy absolutely dominated in the ruck and the palm down to Gulden in the last was just poetry in motion.

Interesting reading through your thread about your thoughts on the umpires.

When I was watching the game in the heat of the moment with my saints glasses on I thought we was extremely hard done by especially Caminiti on Buller in the 1st when they was grappling each other and holding each other just let them play on in that situation.

Grundy was given a couple of interesting free kicks and holding the ball was an absolute lottery.

On reflection after I can see the game logically Wilkie was 100% holding the ball in the last qtr and you should have been given a free kick straight in front and the 50 metre penalty was pretty dodgy.

I understand this is a swans forum and the game is watched through a swans lens but trust me the umpiring was complete rubbish both ways.

The worst umpired game I’ve seen this season.

All the best with the rest of the year hope you don’t mind the intrusion.

Yep, a lot of people on here would agree the umpiring was seriously crap but both teams copped it equally.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What a perfect morning.

I've been in the UK and France for much or the northern summer. Here in the High Weald birds loudly announce the arrival of first light, a little after 4am. I managed to sleep until about 6am then opened the AFL website and lay in bed listening to our game. At quarter time we were ahead but we quickly fell behind as the Saints launched attack after attack during the second quarter. Crikey. I could only hope we were fighting back, but all I could hear were the names of Saints players dominating as their score continued to climb. I didn't like that reality so I turned it off.

At a more reasonable hour I found myself ensconsed in a comfy seat on a shaded terrace. It was not yet hot but the early sun had already drawn the last moisture from the wildflowers and beds of colourful perennials. A perfectly sunny Eden lay before me. A slight breeze brought the reassuring scent of ancient oaks and fern glades from a woodland. Pollinators played background hums to the tunes of wild birds. A steam train whistled as it chugged up the next valley, a couple of kms away. Draft horses in the fields behind added their snorts of bass.

In perfect morning tranquility, listening to the laid back sounds of an early summers day, an English idyll, I clicked on my browser to open the game again. "Wwaaugh!" I panicked. The game was unexpectedly still alive, the scores were tied at 86 points apiece and what's more, there were still some few minutes to play - Now I'm not normally a superstitious chap but ancient ley lines run deep, criss-crossing between the villages and towns of the English countryside - I took no chances. I slammed the laptop shut, lest I jinx us again, then just as quickly re-opened it again to shut down the browser too. "Phew". With the laptop and browser both firmly shut down I was free to bend reality to my own wishes. My thoughts were tuned entirely onto perfectly poached eggs, cumberland sausages and bacon from happy pigs and freshly ground coffee. Mostly I thought of the miraculous powers of Errol Gulden.

I visualised Gulden weaving his way past opponents before kicking truly for goal on his trusted left foot, convincing myself that he alone could and would save us. Only when my perfect breakfast arrived, exactly as I'd imagined, did I dare to sneak a peek at the final score.

Errol had heard my thoughts and kicked the winning goal, assisted by the spirit of the divine* Grundy.

*He who gives first use to his disciples.

Bloody brilliant mate.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

Well done on the win swans fans.

Hayward was epic in the last qtr and threading that goal from the boundary was brilliant.

Grundy absolutely dominated in the ruck and the palm down to Gulden in the last was just poetry in motion.

Interesting reading through your thread about your thoughts on the umpires.

When I was watching the game in the heat of the moment with my saints glasses on I thought we was extremely hard done by especially Caminiti on Buller in the 1st when they was grappling each other and holding each other just let them play on in that situation.

Grundy was given a couple of interesting free kicks and holding the ball was an absolute lottery.

On reflection after I can see the game logically Wilkie was 100% holding the ball in the last qtr and you should have been given a free kick straight in front and the 50 metre penalty was pretty dodgy.

I understand this is a swans forum and the game is watched through a swans lens but trust me the umpiring was complete rubbish both ways.

The worst umpired game I’ve seen this season.

All the best with the rest of the year hope you don’t mind the intrusion.

That’s a fair perception.

If you’re going to come on an opposition board to sneak your point through you certainly did it in the right manner with a bit of buttering up in there. Well played.

Credit to you for going about it the right way and it’s actually good to get some balance in here sometimes.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I don't think the umpiring favoured one team or the other that much, but it is just bad ... period.

So many 50/50 contests are paid as free kicks, and then the exact same thing happens and it isn't a free kick.

One or two wouldn't be a big deal, but it is over and over again through the entire game. To the point where I have no idea what is a free kick and what isn't.

Can you hold in the ruck? or can you not? Can you smash into someone with front on contact, or can you not? If there is a forward and defender both holding each other, who gets the free kick? It seems completely random.

It’s not quite random.

The ump asks themselves the following questions, in order:

1. Is a Daicos involved?

2. Is a player wearing red, white & blue?

3. Was Ginnivan’s head anywhere in the vicinity?

If the answer to 1, 2 or 3 is “yes”: award free to Daicos/Bravedog/Ginnivan

If “no”, blow whistle anyway and award random free.

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

Campbell needs to develop a Chad ego when he has the ball on or outside 50 and just kick for goal.

Yep agree, I think first quarter was looking for an option at about 50m out on an angle.

Needs a bit more of a Chad or Paps selfishness and almost cockiness to take the next step. Too nice.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Thats all they care about

Kind of a biggie.

 

[liz]

It’s not quite random.

The ump asks themselves the following questions, in order:

1. Is a Daicos involved?

2. Is a player wearing red, white & blue?

3. Was Ginnivan’s head anywhere in the vicinity?

If the answer to 1, 2 or 3 is “yes”: award free to Daicos/Bravedog/Ginnivan

If “no”, blow whistle anyway and award random free.

There was a segment on umpiring on last Wednesday’s AFL360 with Horse and Simpson (the only segment I watch nowadays). They’d each spent considerable time during the preceding week observing umpiring activities. For the work they’d done, it deserved more than a ten minute segment on a midweek show.

One thing they talked about (which surprised/ shocked me but didn’t seem to raise the ire of two long time coaches) was how the umpires prepare for a match, focusing on the individual players participating and likely match ups that they (the umpires) will need to keep an eye on, anticipating where there might be scragging etc). And they think about the game styles of each team, and what that might mean for rule infringements. Naive me had hoped (expected) that the umpires just call what they see, but clearly that’s not the case. They prime themselves to see some infringements more than others.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

And Cunningham has speed. Genuine speed. He is not fast. He is @#$%#* fast.

JackHiscoxWasFast?

 

[Banyo Bloods]

The Wilkie one and Errol not getting a downfield or a free after he kicked and got taken high, I can't justify.

On reflection however the JMac 50 against he was probably going to be ok for the protected zone had he kept his line but he starts to cut back in marginally before passing the man on the mark and that's all the ump needed to ping him.

We got away with a couple and they certainly did so beyond the howler from number 13 not paying to Buller against Wilkie it just seemed a heavily over officiated match with the closeness of the finish to feel like every free or non free was magnified.

 

[strauchanie59]

Had a feeling a comment like this would come because he had an unassuming game. It's just weird and tiring to point him out every time he doesn't star. It's almost like he has to have an absolute blinder and even then it's like he only gets acknowledged on this board because it can't be ignored.

He did absolutely nothing wrong today, and again did a lot right. I don't know if I'm the odd one but everytime I see him line the ball up he attacks it with more ferocity than anyone else in the team. I think he sticks out sometimes when he can't stick a tackle when the oppo is half an arms length away from his body line, but what do we expect from a player of his build. For an outside creator he does more than enough dirty work, and he has been contributing a fair bit in the middle of late whilst still being the main link in our forward hit ups time and time again.

For an outside creator, you'd like him to hit more targets than he does. More often than not his kicks either go straight to the oppo, or a grubbers along the ground inside 50. His efficiency of 31% yesterday by foot is awful! I reckon a lot of teams are happy to see the ball in his hands.

He's 6'2...one of our bigger midfielders and apparently the "best winger in the league". It's the bare minimum that he needs to be sticking some tackles and not throwing one arm at it.

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

There was a segment on umpiring on last Wednesday’s AFL360 with Horse and Simpson (the only segment I watch nowadays). They’d each spent considerable time during the preceding week observing umpiring activities. For the work they’d done, it deserved more than a ten minute segment on a midweek show.

One thing they talked about (which surprised/ shocked me but didn’t seem to raise the ire of two long time coaches) was how the umpires prepare for a match, focusing on the individual players participating and likely match ups that they (the umpires) will need to keep an eye on, anticipating where there might be scragging etc). And they honk about the game styles of each team, and what that might mean for rule infringements. Naive me had hoped (expected) that the umpires just call what they see, but clearly that’s not the case. They prime themselves to see some infringements more than others.

This makes sense as to why we seem (and seemed) to give a lot of free kicks to opposition tall forwards.

Umps carrying in the bias that our usual undersized KPD’s (Rampe comes to mind as an example) would need to interfere with the bigger power forwards (eg - Charlie Dixon) to match them. Hence over the years we seem to concede a lot of D50 free kicks.

I actually don’t think them doing this analysis prior to a game is a good thing for a fair and unbiased call!

It should just be made on merits, if it’s there pay it, preferrably pay less and only the obvious.

Also there is a complete lack of “feel” for the game these days, which is probably accentuated with extra umpires, adding additional interpretations. They have a tough job without doubt, I am hoping the new appointments to AFL help sort through this mess. Probs the number 1 issue in footy at present, the state of umpiring.

 

[wolftone57]

Any tall forwards we recruit from this point forward should just automatically play in the Seniors to develop.

its quite clear that Buller was hindered with the woeful reserves delivery.

It would seem so. Buller has been very good since he came in. He's a clever player. Makes good decisions. He competes, every time and if he competes he gives you a chance. That cvontest on the wing in the last was incredibly clever. He left Camaniti for dead. He bodied him, then slipped out the back and got the ball on. Do you know all the time he was directing traffic. Great play. Very clever. A REAL Forward.