Autopsy 2025 Round 18: Swans swindle slow Saints

[gringo2011]

So just hand it back to?
That doesn’t seems financially smart at all after we’ve worked to accumulate it…

You don't hand it back. It's like saying not buying a new TV during the Boxing Day sale is handing your wage back.

 

[gringo2011]

There’s something called front loading a contract.
Pretty sure with the money available now there’s a really good chance that’s what we would do.
By the time the possible big contracts of NAS ( providing he’s still with us) Pou, Tauru etc etc come up we’ll have paid a vast amount of Tdks.

Carlton is still hamstrung by these exact types of over the top contracts when they were shit. It's limited their improvement when they need a few tailored appointments. Even if TDK his on $800k in his final year, it's a lot unless he's turned into an absolute elite ruck. Max King is going to still be sucking out his million a year. If both are injury prone or don't hit top level it looks horrible.

Even the Dogs haven't hurt themselves because they can replace players but spending too much on GOPs lost them a few absolute stars.

 

[Klaatu]

Just on TDK he is needed, just think 3 weeks ago Dodson was just another ordinary 2s player now every ones thinks he's the ruck answer he might be but he needs time to develop & grow his confidence.

 

[gringo2011]

Don't think it is all on coaching at all. We are clearly a long way off being a finals team in terms of talent.

Doesn't mean I don't think the coaches have been poor this year.

We play a dour boring game style that relies on flashes of individual brilliance for something to happen. I think the way we move the ball from the centre into F50 is probably up there with the worst in the league.

We refuse to use angles, we won't touch the corridor unless it is NAS and we are predictable and easy to play against, regularly just booting it down the line once our 1 wood (the switch) is blocked off.

I think this is absolutely on the coaches to improve. Cats, Pies, Hawks all have bold ball movement. They have better lists than us, but the gap is not as big as results would suggest. They play with flair and confidence because it has been drilled into them.

Next year I am expecting more than just a few extra wins, I want to see this young group produce a far more attractive brand of footy. I want to see run and carry, piercing kicks through the middle, repeat leads inside F50.

Let's see if we can evolve the game plan, I doubt it personally.

Our list is in the best state it's been for a long time. We have a lot of super talented kids and older stars. We should be better than we are on the ladder. It's unbalanced and higher than average amounts of youth usually make for uneven performance but still underperforming.

Clubs like the Dogs, Swans and Cats can do soft rebuilds without major disruption. We need to do that. Not spend 5 years at the bottom wondering why we need to start again as all the senior players step out.

 

[Desperate saint]

I swear nothing's more stagnant than when we the ball 80-60m from goal looking for that last mark.

They all turn into statues or decide to turn their back to the play. Its redic.

They know you can lead to the ball right.

Couldnt agree more -Sydney were always looking for that short chip kick-our forwards never lead at the ball carrier-hold it until all the swans get back then bomb it long -reckon it is our biggest on field issue

 

[gringo2011]

Just on TDK he is needed, just think 3 weeks ago Dodson was just another ordinary 2s player now every ones thinks he's the ruck answer he might be but he needs time to develop & grow his confidence.

We have never needed TDK, there is a solid argument that it lets us trade Marshall for a FRDP so paying the biggest contract in history for a pick probably in the late 20s early 30s by the time all the academy, FS and FA compos are taken out.

The top end of this draft is quite good IMO, it thins out pretty fast.

 

[phantom13]

Just on TDK he is needed, just think 3 weeks ago Dodson was just another ordinary 2s player now every ones thinks he's the ruck answer he might be but he needs time to develop & grow his confidence.

We absolutely do not need him, at all, were not getting him out of any need whatsoever.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Watched the game late last night without knowing the result, lots to like. Also saw a bit of the Sandy game, hopefully we hear in the not too distant future of an extension for Dodson. Contracted till the end of next year, teams will be coming for him with good offers.

Some great highlights in the Saints game though, loved the big Moose tackle on Grundy, Hugo's goal a bloody ripper. Max Hall the number one rated small forward in the comp over the last six weeks. Stocker with an underrated game, some nice contested marks.

And which one of you gentlemen is the ranga with the Viking helmet sitting with the Saints cheer squad?

 

[beside the seaside]

We absolutely do not need him, at all, were not getting him out of any need whatsoever.

How many times has the oppo ruck destroyed us this year?

 

[gringo2011]

Weird… this week was the most excited, interested and probably best side we’ve had all year. Save for some errant goal kicking or crappy kicks in defensive 50, we win.

And people are going on about the coach….

And you could also point out that we are the worst performed side in the league apart from WC over the last couple of months. Only St Kilda fans can get pumped about losses.

Having low standards and zero expectations has kept us shit. Other clubs have rebuilt twice since we started ours in 2012 and will finish their next one before us and Saints fans will be demanding patience.

 

[beside the seaside]

Carlton is still hamstrung by these exact types of over the top contracts when they were shit. It's limited their improvement when they need a few tailored appointments. Even if TDK his on $800k in his final year, it's a lot unless he's turned into an absolute elite ruck. Max King is going to still be sucking out his million a year. If both are injury prone or don't hit top level it looks horrible.

Even the Dogs haven't hurt themselves because they can replace players but spending too much on GOPs lost them a few absolute stars.

There's also a guy like Daniher that won his team a flag. It's not a laydown misere that these types of contracts fail.

 

[phantom13]

How many times has the oppo ruck destroyed us this year?

You tell me? People are saying Grundy won Sydney the game yesterday but the clearances were the same (and they have an almost comically better midfield) and our rucks kicked two goals to his none?

Yeh he won alot of hitouts, i couldnt give a **** about that AND TDK wont be much better in the hitout arena from what ive seen.

 

[gringo2011]

There's also a guy like Daniher that won his team a flag. It's not a laydown misere that these types of contracts fail.

Of course it doesn't always fail. Alister Lynch, Buddy probably a few others. Brad Hill and Rory Lobb have turned horrible contracts into less horrible contracts but overall more are Zac Williams, McGovern types or restrictive stuff ups.

 

[gringo2011]

You tell me? People are saying Grundy won Sydney the game yesterday but the clearances were the same (and they have an almost comically better midfield) and our rucks kicked two goals to his none?

Yeh he won alot of hitouts, i couldnt give a **** about that AND TDK wont be much better in the hitout arena from what ive seen.

Gulden left in space around goal is just inexperienced young defenders not thinking on their feet. Leaving Gulden or Warner to run free is about the dumbest thing you could do in that situation. There were players goal side of him but no-one thought to man their star player.

 

[Joffaboy]

We have never needed TDK, there is a solid argument that it lets us trade Marshall for a FRDP so paying the biggest contract in history for a pick probably in the late 20s early 30s by the time all the academy, FS and FA compos are taken out.

The top end of this draft is quite good IMO, it thins out pretty fast.

We get a player and a frdp for 1.7 less Marshall's contract say 700, so that is TDK and a frdp for a million for the next two years.
Looking at it that way, it isn't too bad.
Garcia at 50, Dodson at 53, Boxshall in the 40's, Hall. Dalrymple finds diamonds in the rough.

 

[beside the seaside]

You tell me? People are saying Grundy won Sydney the game yesterday but the clearances were the same (and they have an almost comically better midfield) and our rucks kicked two goals to his none?

Yeh he won alot of hitouts, i couldnt give a **** about that AND TDK wont be much better in the hitout arena from what ive seen.

Grundy won them the game in the last quarter by getting on top of Marshall including setting up the winning goal. Others that have recently gotten on top of us - Meek, Cameron, English, Witts. Even Reilly O'Brien smashed him earlier in the year.

 

[phantom13]

Gulden left in space around goal is just inexperienced young defenders not thinking on their feet. Leaving Gulden or Warner to run free is about the dumbest thing you could do in that situation. There were players goal side of him but no-one thought to man their star player.

If i remember it right Sincs was with him but just wasnt goal side.

We get a player and a frdp for 1.7 less Marshall's contract say 700, so that is TDK and a frdp for a million for the next two years.
Looking at it that way, it isn't too bad.

IF and its a big if we get a first for Roma.

 

[gringo2011]

How many times has the oppo ruck destroyed us this year?

Marshall having a horrible restricted season off a fractured pelvis and apparently a foot injury being managed. He's not anywhere near his best right now.

 

[gringo2011]

If i remember it right Sincs was with him but just wasnt goal side.

IF and its a big if we get a first for Roma.

And I guess we'd argue that you roll the dice, if we get it out to Sincs in space he's away.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

So Naz has been vilified online. That’s just sad

 

[gringo2011]

We get a player and a frdp for 1.7 less Marshall's contract say 700, so that is TDK and a frdp for a million for the next two years.
Looking at it that way, it isn't too bad.

Marshall is a match winner and you give him up for a very ordinary pick. I think if you could guarantee Jevan Phillipou was there maybe but in all likelihood it's more like Gresham for Collard. Gresh has done nothing so hasn't hurt.

 

[Cairnsman]

The list rebuild is making progress, 8 debutants this year, only the magnitude is up for debate, so I'm half glass full on Lyon's, AND the clubs performance, specifically the ability to rebuild and develop.

I'm firmly in the camp of wanting all of our remaining games to be mostly losses and preserve our high draft pick so we can target the best mid available when your pick comes around. Losses like yesterday would be ideal, ones where we fight really hard to the end, there's a massive lesson in that and it's classic Lyon signature. So more of that while getting more games into a really wide spread across the whole list. Gee hasn't the injury crisis given the coaches a really detailed look at so many players on the list, the injury crisis is going to be something we might look back on in years and conclude was a silver lining.

Kudos to the club and coaches for a really competent approach to list development...a big tick.

Trending in the right direction.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

So what is everyone’s verdict on Heath’s debut? Aside from the good bloke vibe. Just straight down the line, did he make us better? More likely to win?

I think we might be setting him up for trade rather then delisting.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Just on TDK he is needed, just think 3 weeks ago Dodson was just another ordinary 2s player now every ones thinks he's the ruck answer he might be but he needs time to develop & grow his confidence.

Or maybe Dodson will thrive being the number one banana at Sandy instead of spending half his time up forward , the way he got around the ground on the weekend was a sight for sore eyes , i have no doubt a couple more games like yesterday and we could see him in the ones this year

 

[Joffaboy]

Marshall is a match winner and you give him up for a very ordinary pick. I think if you could guarantee Jevan Phillipou was there maybe but in all likelihood it's more like Gresham for Collard. Gresh has done nothing so hasn't hurt.

Wouldn't it be TDK for Marshall? Don't think Marshall is a match winner but I think maybe the 'war chest' can be better utilised looking at a salary dump mid.

Anyway the facts are the club will take TDK as a FA if he agrees and will trade Marshall for a decent pick if offered, and it doesn't matter a jot what we think.

Just like if Lyon has us bottom four next year. We may all be asking questions about his tenure, the club won't listen.

Look at Port fans and Kenny. Must have called for his sacking for 5 years.